LEOPARD CANCELLATION HUNT SOUTH AFRICA

Discussion in 'GREAT DEALS on Hunts Worldwide' started by Robbie Kruger Safaris, Mar 9, 2012.

  1. Robbie Kruger Safaris

    Robbie Kruger Safaris New Member

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    12 DAY LEOPARD HUNT IN ZULULAND IN KWAZULU NATAL SOUTH AFRICA

    The price for this hunt is $16 500.00
    This includes:

    12 days accommodation;
    2 x meals a day;
    All soft drinks and water;
    All permits (Cites and hunting permits);
    Professional Hunter;
    Skinners and Trackers;
    Transport during safari;
    Pre-baiting

    Excluded:

    All other accommodation prior to the hunt;
    All taxidermy fees;

    The hunting area is in ZuluLand about 3 hours drive from Durban.
    There is a very good population of leopards in this area.
    There is also plenty of plains game to be hunted.
    Buffalo and other big game can also be added to the safari, there is a very good area for this close by.

    Clients must fly Johannesburg International Airport and then take a connecting flight to Durban International Airport, where I will then pick them up and go to the hunting area.

    This hunt must take place during the month of April or then before the 18th of May 2012.

    Regards,
    Robbie Kruger
     
  2. James.Grage

    James.Grage GOLD SUPPORTER AH Legend

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    Robbie

    For those looking this is a great area to go hunting.

    If someone take you up on this i would suggest that they say a night in Joberg and then take the first flight the next day to Durban.
     
  3. BRICKBURN

    BRICKBURN SUPER MODERATOR CONTRIBUTOR GOLD BENEFACTOR AH Ambassador

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    Robbie, which property is being hunted for the Leopard?

    Do you have any pictures?
     
  4. tap

    tap AH Enthusiast

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    someone please throw a warning up on this one as of right now that leopard WILL NOT make it to america. I hunted there last year and nature conservation still hasn't fixed their tags. That means the pelt tag is in the wrong format to satisfy line 11a for USFWS. My wifes leopard has been re-issued one tag already and it still wasn't granted a us import permit. Until nature conservation gets this fixed I would definitely not go to SA for a leopard as you will not get your leopard at this time.

    Let me re-state, pelt tags are in the wrong format. DO NOT shoot a kzn leopard. Look elsewhere more particularly where the pelt tags are issued in the correct format. Also please be aware that most areas in KZN have low leopard kills. I don't know if its the poaching from surrounding cattle farms which is a problem or if the cats are just sporadic but these tags are for very specific farms and are not got for any other farm. You may be severly limited in your ability to move to get on a leopard. If the hunt had a hunt fee of $7000 and a $11,000 trophy fee I would say take the chance but I'm not sure your chances of getting a leopard are very good and since the outfitter isn't willing to put his money where his mouth is I would be very reluctant. However I hunted and killed a leopard in that exact area last year with that exact tag and it is an experience I will NEVER find myself reliving. Just my two cents but I would be careful.

    Tony
     
  5. tap

    tap AH Enthusiast

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    wait just one second. I just read the fine print. 2 meals a day???? what if some fat lazy american weighing 300lbs like myself wants to come hunt? you tellin me we gotta diet to? deal breaker right there buddy lol. 20 meals a day and we'll talk.
     
  6. sestoppelman

    sestoppelman SILVER SUPPORTER AH Legend

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    One would hope that is a typo. I have never heard of any outfitter limiting meals to two per day anywhere, ever.
     
  7. 35bore

    35bore AH Elite

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    Guessing a typo as well, unless this guy is from France??? Hell-of-a-deal though.
     
  8. BRICKBURN

    BRICKBURN SUPER MODERATOR CONTRIBUTOR GOLD BENEFACTOR AH Ambassador

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    Ses, I have seen this one before.
    Rusks and coffee and back for brunch and dinner later on. 2 Meals/day.
     
  9. nsok

    nsok AH Veteran

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    I do not see if the trophy fee is included?
     
  10. BRICKBURN

    BRICKBURN SUPER MODERATOR CONTRIBUTOR GOLD BENEFACTOR AH Ambassador

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    I was wondering how long it would take to have that pointed out. The deadly AH skull and cross bones awaits!
     
  11. Robbie Kruger Safaris

    Robbie Kruger Safaris New Member

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    I apologize for the mistake on my side.

    The trophy fee of 1 x leopard is included in the price of $16 500.00.

    I would also just like to clear up the misunderstanding about the meals:
    The 2 main meals is a big brunch and supper, but there is always more than enough other foods or snacks during the day. Should you require anything specific, the kitchen staff is always there to assist you.

    Regarding the hunt:
    If the hunt is unsuccessful and we did not get the leopard, then I will refund the client $9 800.00 - that is the trophy fee for the leopard.
    The chances of getting a good male leopard is very good, there is a very healthy population of leopards in the area. The hunting area is about 50km from Vryheid next to the Black Umfolozi River.
    There is big mountains with a lot of caves, some of which still have Bushman signs, that makes it the perfect habitat for cats and the plains game population is also very good.
     
  12. Wolverine67

    Wolverine67 AH Fanatic

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    well, the refund part makes it a good deal. I dont know anything about the tag issue, is that an US thing?
     
  13. tap

    tap AH Enthusiast

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    Yes the tag thing is a us only issue. The usfws in an attempt to discourage leopard hunting has found a loophole in which they can hold up or flat out confiscate your legal shot leopard with an internationally issued cites tag. Its called line 11a. Line 11a on your us import request permit asks you what year was your leopard shot in. What was the leopard quota for that year, and what tag number are you issued out of the entire allotment. If this line 11a isn't filled out on your us import permit and the pelt tag on the leopard matching line 11a isn't in agreement with line 11a then your leopard will be siezed. Currently the pelt tags that parks service places on your leopar from SA only has a number. this number is the permit number of your cites tag. For examply my wifes was something like #12. That means of all the cites permits issued in 2011 hers was the 12th tag issued. What the us wants the tag to say is 12/125-2011. This means your leopard tag was #12 out of 125 total cites permit issued in the calendar year 2011. If the pelt doesn't state exactly this then your leopard will be seized even though it was a perfectly legally shot leopard by both us and international standards. Its simply the american greenies way of supposedly saving a few leopards. As it sits my wifes leopard is sitting in storage in South Africa probably indefinitely. We are waiting on the South African parks board to issue a new pelt tag in the correct format and as of now they have absolutely no intention of doing so. As of right now I have applied for 2 US import permits for my wifes leopard and have been refused a permit twice. I am going through hunters international brokerage group to accomplish this. We have even sent the cites permit itself to them in order to show them we legally hunted the cat and the answer is always the same, "NO!". So if you hunters out there wish to hunt leopard in africa please make certain what format the pelt tag is in that will be going on your leopard and croc. As of now they are targeting only leopards and crocs and no other animals. I hope this helps.

    Tony
     
  14. BRICKBURN

    BRICKBURN SUPER MODERATOR CONTRIBUTOR GOLD BENEFACTOR AH Ambassador

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  15. BRICKBURN

    BRICKBURN SUPER MODERATOR CONTRIBUTOR GOLD BENEFACTOR AH Ambassador

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    Kind of...
    I asked what farm it was on to know how big a property can be hunted. That will effect the number of baits that can be set out, etc. and thus your chances of success.

    50 Km (as the crows fly) from Vryheid on the Black Umfolozi River banks leaves you with a selection of villages and farms/properties of various sizes. (SA Topo Maps)
    The first 12 Km of the Black Umfolozi head waters are all Sugercane fields.

    Advice in the other thread:

    I am not knocking the hunt. I would just like some plain information about factors that will greatly impact success.

    Other information that might help:
    Cost of bait animals during the hunt?
    Other hunting on the property, elsewhere?
    Is this a problem animal hunt? (PAC)
    If this is a cancellation hunt, what is the normal rate?
     
  16. BRICKBURN

    BRICKBURN SUPER MODERATOR CONTRIBUTOR GOLD BENEFACTOR AH Ambassador

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    Thank you for your PM Robbie.

    After looking along the Black Umfolozi on Google Earth this is an interesting property.
    They valley drainage looks like a bowl and refuge for critters.
     
  17. Bobpuckett

    Bobpuckett GOLD SUPPORTER AH Legend

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    For US Citizens we're screwed until they get the permit issue fixed but for the rest of the world this is a Good Deal hope some one can take you up on your offer.
     
  18. Jaco Strauss

    Jaco Strauss AH Elite

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    The USFWS pertains to all CITIES 1 and applies to S.A. Zim, Bots, Tanz, Zam, Moz and any other African coutry for that matter, S.A. has a pretty good rap on quick turn around time for Dip and pack and as long as it leaves the the country of origin within that particular year, and paper work is top notch.... If I interpret it correctly you should be good.

    All Leopard potentials should double check this, including clients hunting elsewhere, S.A. has a very good Leopard population...... as TAP correctly states permits are issued Area or rather farm spesific, larger properties with good Leopard habitat and low hunting pressure are the ones to go for.

    By my quick calculations if a $9800 rebate is offered if the cat is not taken, it boils down to a $480 per day x 14 days daily rate, the large or rather higher trophy fee... in my mind.... indicates and incentive for a leopard to be taken because the profit margin will be so much greater if the hunt goes well, From my knowledge you will not find a low daily rate like this anywhere in Africa on a Leopard hunt.

    Let me say I do not know the outfitter, but just the way it has been put together looks better than most, ie. lower daily rate high trophy fee........ It is a bargain yes maybe because it is a cancelation hunt....

    I think posting a warning on every Leopard hunt offered.... or ones from SA.... due to the USFWS silly loop hole attempt which pertains to Africa in its totality is a pretty rough call to make, it places the outfitter in a shadow of doubt which I think is unfair. If an outfitter has a credible track record and does honest buisiness surely he can not be hammered for that.


    My best always.
     
  19. Buff-Buster

    Buff-Buster GOLD SUPPORTER AH Elite

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    Sounds like an opportunity to start a business handling CITIES I trophies for American clients??????? We plop down money to ease the gun permit process.......this seems to be putting a helluve lot more at risk. I'd pay to have someone there in SA making sure that all of the I's were dotted and the T's crossed on my CITIES paper work and skins!!!!! .......Just my 2 cents.
     
  20. Jaco Strauss

    Jaco Strauss AH Elite

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    Thought I would post this as well, regarding Advice by Safari-Lawyer which is very true? although "where they are" can be interpreted in many ways. As far as actual numbers of Leopard are concerned.

    1.) Leopards are territorial, in that both males and females defend territories against conspesifics of the same sex, (Hamilton 76'; Bertram 82')with a number of fights between territorial males resulting from accidental encounters, and in some cases even delideliberate interception, it has been proven though that fights only develop after normal avoidence behaviour has failed to prevent these encounters.

    I a study in the Stellenbosch mountains, Cape province (Norton and Lawson 81') found home ranges to be 149 and 188 square miles for a male and female cat respectively which is in the same order as average ranges for Leopard in the Kalahari Gembuck park as found by Botma and Le Riche (1989)

    On the other hand a Study done on 3 male Adult Leopard in South Africa's Waterberg Region as well as the Cederberg area in the Cape, ranges were found to be 11, 15 and 17 square miles respectively (Norton and Henley 87') (Strauss and Van Rensburg 99') with varying amounts of overlap at both sites....

    Smith in 77' Gave home ranges to be roughly 5 and 8.3 square miles for Matobo Hills National park, Zimbabwe indeed a high concentration but then again the latter being prime Leopard country and 99% habitable.

    2.)Point is, Size of home range and population density may very well depend on type of terrain and availability of prey,.. which in SA as long as we keep terrain in mind, should be very good, once again keeping in mind that the less human activity you have, the better the movement will be as well, large hilly or mountainous properties, with rivines, dense cover and rocky out crops and caves are almost a must.

    Now if we were to consider an average hunting area out-side of South Africa? and keep in mind I am referring to an average block of? let's say 300 000 acres we would be looking at an area of roughly 468.75 square miles!!, (640 acres to a square mile and topography plays a role as well here), and once again assuming that all the terrain would be suitable Leopard habitat, we could potentially be looking at a population of 30 Leopard males/ females (working on an average of 15.4 square miles per cat) with overlapping home ranges.

    Now we need to remember that ,,,,, the math that I am doing has allot of variables woking against but also for it, one of which is prey availability, some free roaming or Wild areas might not have great avaiability, due to various factors, including some socio economical issues in certain Southern African countries to mention but one.
    Another factor to keep in mind is how well can you really cover or rather how effective can one bait an area of 468 square miles? I say it is virtually impossible? Due to the fact that, we tend to bait the same trees year after year, especially once a Leopard has been taken from that specific tree or trees..... As it has been proven on countless occasions that another male will take over that specific home range of the last.

    Other factors not to be forgotten are the cost of baits, fuel and time to your disposal to check all, and building a blind as well as the lion population in an area. In short there is no way that you could effectively hunt those 30 Leopard in their totality, you might be able to effectively hunt 25% of them, which out of Leopard hunting experience, I very much doubt, but with a major effort as every hunt should be that could potentially provide you with you access to 7.75 Leopard.

    Now let's say we are hunting an area of 40 000 acres in South Africa full of game and reasonable hunting pressure, we would then be looking at an area of 62, 5 square miles of suitable Leopard habitat in the right or prime area, potentially we could then have access to, 4.5 Leopard? Overlapping, not that much different from above (on large properties).

    Now I will make this very bold statement, that the amount of land to be covered on both different hunts is not much different especially when taking all the variables listed as above into consideration.

    I would like to make this very clear, and that is that I am not trying to put down Leopard hunting outside of South Africa nor am I stating that S.A is a better experience or a better Leopard hunting destination, for one, I truly love hunting Wilderness areas, I am simply stating that there is not that much difference over the broad spectrum, and that one can by no means write off hunting Leopard on Large properties in South Africa. We have good Leopard outfits and we have some really big Leopard.

    Point is simple hunting with an outfitter or PH that understands Leopard hunting is a very important key to your hunts success, knowing that you will have pre baiting, is just as important, arriving in camp and only then starting to get baits is simply not good enough, the ideal would be to have a week or two of pre baiting done so that once you (the Leopard hunter) arrive in Camp you have some activity and if need be you can settle into a blind from the word get go.

    Many hunters have toyed with the idea of Leopard hunting and quite simply put many have paid the price and have had to return to hunt again, it is the kind of hunt that, time spent in blind=larger chance for success, there is no time to sit in camp on a 14 day hunt to wait for a cat to hit the bait.... (just my opinion)

    I truly believe that SA is a good Leopard destination and can hold its own against any other Southern African Country.

    My very best always.
     

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