Latest Hornady Episode

[PHOENIX PHIL]

Gents,

I came across a story about Hornady factory ammo on another website that I thought was important to share. Been meaning to get this thread started for a couple days now and just getting to it. I have not exactly held back my opinion regarding the DGS and DGX bullets. Honestly I think they're junk. Junk not because they've not been used successfully but based on the overall performance in the field. Do enough research and you'll find many stories on these bullets and their poor performance. With other options that have a much better reputation, I just don't understand why anyone would choose these bullets over others available. A few less bucks spent on ammo when talking about hunting DG just seems like the silliest place to save money. When it is all said and done it is the bullet that will be doing the heaviest lifting.

Okay, I'll get around to it finally. It would seem a fellow hunter using a bolt action in .416Rem was recently at the range. The hunter brought the rifle to a friend when the bolt would not open after firing. The friend gave a few sharp whacks to the bolt handle and was able to break the bolt free and open. The brass came with the bolt and ejected. Cutting to the chase it would seem the round fired had no powder. The primer ignited and created enough pressure to push the bullet into the lands but not so far that the bullet fully exited the brass. The whacks of the bolt handle eventually loosened up the bullet from the neck and the brass was pulled away from the bullet still stuck in the lands. The bullet was pushed back out using a cleaning rod and all is well again with the rifle.

How did this happen? I have no idea. I'm just glad that there wasn't enough charge to push the bullet far enough into the barrel to fully exit the brass and cause at least enough recoil that the shooter thought he sent one downrange. All sort of scary thoughts here in my head.

What I am sure of is this represents a lack of quality control. Lack of quality control and ammunition manufacturing are not words that should ever be said in the same sentence. Could any ammo factory make this mistake, I guess so. But this is just another story I'm reading of poor QC at Hornady.

So I'd recommend that if you shoot Hornady factory ammo, you weigh all of your rounds prior to shooting them at the least and absolutely before you hunt with them. You'll need a scale that will read in grains preferably, but at least grams.

Now in some fairness to Hornady. I have a die set that I really like. I also appreciate that they're making brass in some of the African calibers that other companies have chosen not to. When I had a .416Rigby I used their brass and found it to be fine.

Furthermore, while there are stories of Hornady ignoring complaints from their customers, this appears to not be the case in this situation. Hornady was contacted and has thus far been responsive to the seriousness of the situation. What will come of that I don't know, time will tell.

 

[Royal27]

There is just too much smoke around Hornady and especially the DGS/DGX.

You just don't hear this type of feedback consistently from the other big name premium ammunition makers.

 

[CAustin]

I read the thread on another site and it is very concerning! This type of failure could cause serious injury.

 

[cpr0312]

Wow, not good!

 

[Clayton]

One known "failure" coming off an automated production line, then there's more out there some where just waiting to be found.

Maybe QC caught them.

 

[Bullthrower338]

Thanks Phil, good heads up! I shoot a lot of Hornady for practice, with the deformation of recovered bullets, I wouldn't personally hunt DG with it. You would think a guy would feel the lack of powder in a 416 RM cartridge!
I had a double charged 45 ACP cartridge from one of the other majors(not Hornady and I can't remember who, so I'm not going to guess) it split the case and blew the magazine out of a Glock 21. Spooked the hell out of me! I don't know how either a double charge or absent charge could get through the multiple QC mechanisms but obviously they do. Good idea to check them!
As you said above, Hornady does do a lot for us when it comes to Big Bore ammo and brass at reasonable prices. Their reloading equipment seems to be very good, I just bought the case prep machine and it is awesome.
Glad nobody was hurt in this incident and hopefully this serves as a gut check to inspect all of your ammo prior to putting you and your PH in harms way.
Cheers,
Cody

 

[Wheels]

Thanks for posting this new info Phil.

As an individual that doesn't reload, I am glad Hornady makes 404j ammo. They helped re launch the caliber.

I have tried to talk to the Hornady representatives at DSC, to find out what they are doing about the DGX problems. Their response is that there are no problems. It must be the company line. Their representatives at DSC, seem more interested in talking with each other than helping the customer or answering questions.

I practice with Hornady. I hunt with Norma. Norma is expensive, but I have faith in it and trust it. I am glad Norma is now making 404j.

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

Not a pretty picture.....

 

[ack]

Gents,

I came across a story about Hornady factory ammo on another website that I thought was important to share. Been meaning to get this thread started for a couple days now and just getting to it. I have not exactly held back my opinion regarding the DGS and DGX bullets. Honestly I think they're junk. Junk not because they've not been used successfully but based on the overall performance in the field. Do enough research and you'll find many stories on these bullets and their poor performance. With other options that have a much better reputation, I just don't understand why anyone would choose these bullets over others available. A few less bucks spent on ammo when talking about hunting DG just seems like the silliest place to save money. When it is all said and done it is the bullet that will be doing the heaviest lifting.

Okay, I'll get around to it finally. It would seem a fellow hunter using a bolt action in .416Rem was recently at the range. The hunter brought the rifle to a friend when the bolt would not open after firing. The friend gave a few sharp whacks to the bolt handle and was able to break the bolt free and open. The brass came with the bolt and ejected. Cutting to the chase it would seem the round fired had no powder. The primer ignited and created enough pressure to push the bullet into the lands but not so far that the bullet fully exited the brass. The whacks of the bolt handle eventually loosened up the bullet from the neck and the brass was pulled away from the bullet still stuck in the lands. The bullet was pushed back out using a cleaning rod and all is well again with the rifle.

How did this happen? I have no idea. I'm just glad that there wasn't enough charge to push the bullet far enough into the barrel to fully exit the brass and cause at least enough recoil that the shooter thought he sent one downrange. All sort of scary thoughts here in my head.

What I am sure of is this represents a lack of quality control. Lack of quality control and ammunition manufacturing are not words that should ever be said in the same sentence. Could any ammo factory make this mistake, I guess so. But this is just another story I'm reading of poor QC at Hornady.

So I'd recommend that if you shoot Hornady factory ammo, you weigh all of your rounds prior to shooting them at the least and absolutely before you hunt with them. You'll need a scale that will read in grains preferably, but at least grams.

Now in some fairness to Hornady. I have a die set that I really like. I also appreciate that they're making brass in some of the African calibers that other companies have chosen not to. When I had a .416Rigby I used their brass and found it to be fine.

Furthermore, while there are stories of Hornady ignoring complaints from their customers, this appears to not be the case in this situation. Hornady was contacted and has thus far been responsive to the seriousness of the situation. What will come of that I don't know, time will tell.

Not a pretty picture.....

View attachment 158781

Gents,

I came across a story about Hornady factory ammo on another website that I thought was important to share. Been meaning to get this thread started for a couple days now and just getting to it. I have not exactly held back my opinion regarding the DGS and DGX bullets. Honestly I think they're junk. Junk not because they've not been used successfully but based on the overall performance in the field. Do enough research and you'll find many stories on these bullets and their poor performance. With other options that have a much better reputation, I just don't understand why anyone would choose these bullets over others available. A few less bucks spent on ammo when talking about hunting DG just seems like the silliest place to save money. When it is all said and done it is the bullet that will be doing the heaviest lifting.

Okay, I'll get around to it finally. It would seem a fellow hunter using a bolt action in .416Rem was recently at the range. The hunter brought the rifle to a friend when the bolt would not open after firing. The friend gave a few sharp whacks to the bolt handle and was able to break the bolt free and open. The brass came with the bolt and ejected. Cutting to the chase it would seem the round fired had no powder. The primer ignited and created enough pressure to push the bullet into the lands but not so far that the bullet fully exited the brass. The whacks of the bolt handle eventually loosened up the bullet from the neck and the brass was pulled away from the bullet still stuck in the lands. The bullet was pushed back out using a cleaning rod and all is well again with the rifle.

How did this happen? I have no idea. I'm just glad that there wasn't enough charge to push the bullet far enough into the barrel to fully exit the brass and cause at least enough recoil that the shooter thought he sent one downrange. All sort of scary thoughts here in my head.

What I am sure of is this represents a lack of quality control. Lack of quality control and ammunition manufacturing are not words that should ever be said in the same sentence. Could any ammo factory make this mistake, I guess so. But this is just another story I'm reading of poor QC at Hornady.

So I'd recommend that if you shoot Hornady factory ammo, you weigh all of your rounds prior to shooting them at the least and absolutely before you hunt with them. You'll need a scale that will read in grains preferably, but at least grams.

Now in some fairness to Hornady. I have a die set that I really like. I also appreciate that they're making brass in some of the African calibers that other companies have chosen not to. When I had a .416Rigby I used their brass and found it to be fine.

Furthermore, while there are stories of Hornady ignoring complaints from their customers, this appears to not be the case in this situation. Hornady was contacted and has thus far been responsive to the seriousness of the situation. What will come of that I don't know, time will tell.

A couple yrs ago I bought their new bonded ammo (Inter Bond )..Stuff was very accurate but would not xpand,,shot straight through antelope and deer with exit same as entry hole...lost a caribou with a perfect shot also..I'll stay with Federal or Swift..

 

[bassasdaindia]

to be honest I am not a fan of the DGX bullet however I find there brass ( for reloading purposes ) good value for money and nice brass to work with and I can not complain about there DGS bullets that I have loaded and used in .416

 

[PeteG]

Never used the DGS bullets, but did buy some DGX in 416 Rigby a while back. Thought i would give them a try and it was a good test to see how the round nose bullets struggled to feed. So i did a bit of work to the feed ramp and solved that problem... Turns out this was about the only use i had for the DGX.
I did a trial where i shot some DGX and some Norma AFrame into the same contraption of sand. Granted that this was very hard on the bullets, but i did find the AFrames expanded nicely and i found only fragments of the DGX.
Probably not a fair trial, but considering that they cost the same here, i think either the DGX is expensive or the AFrame is a bargain.

 

[LivingTheDream]

I have seen pretty good performance with the DGS. I am scared to use DGX. Too much smoke and makes me worried that during the critical moment I will have a bullet failure.

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

I have seen pretty good performance with the DGS. I am scared to use DGX. Too much smoke and makes me worried that during the critical moment I will have a bullet failure.

I have read less bad reports on the DGS and I see it worked for you on your recent elephant hunt. If I understand correctly the DGS is more of a full metal jacket around a lead core versus one solid metal. Purpose is the same of course. But I have seen a number of results like in this pic. The DGS is the one on the left. The bullet on the right is from Barnes.

 

[LivingTheDream]

@PHOENIX PHIL yikes that's a big difference.

 

[CAustin]

The original point in this thread as I understand it was to warn folks that there had been a problem with a Hornady bullet that should not have happened. Moreover, I would say the failure described could well have caused the user great bodily harm. The round was a partial fire which caused the bullet to lodge in The barrel of the rifle. That being said there is cause for concern about QC at Hornady.

I have personally never had a bullet from any maker fail to fire, partial fire or to hot fire in a gun of mine. Frankly, I don't know anyone who has either. However, I do know someone who worked many years for one of the major US bullet makers, not Hornady, and have been told of bullet failures by that maker. It stands to reason that failures occur within any brand. We do have a response in this thread speaking to a failure of another makers bullet. I suspect if we checked US Court filings over the last several years we would find actions that have been brought against many if not all bullet and firearm makers because of product failures. Not just Hornady mind you. This says to me that Quality Control is not perfect for any maker.

As many on this forum know I have indeed used Hornady ammunition with good success.
The top picture is a Hornady DGX 416 Ruger that was fired into a thick skinned Giraffe and recovered in the skin on the opposite side having passed through ribs on both sides. Looks like it opened properly and retained a great deal of its weight. By the way it came from the same lot of ammo that another forum member had problems with. Could be QC issues within that lot in terms of the bullet performance.

The bottom picture is of a Hornady DGS 416 Ruger that was fired through the skull of a bull elephant and recovered just under the skin on the opposite side of the skull from the entry. There is some slight deformity but again it looks like it did the job as designed. I say that because the elephant fell down and did not move after the shot.

So from my experience I can not say that the DGX or DGS Hornady product is junk. Most concerns are about the performance of Hornady bullets as compared to their competition. I will agree that the Hornady folks had better get their act together where QC is concerned. Lots of smoke here folks and people are now paying attention to what is behind the curtain. When there is a failure to fire or a partial fire of a round which is different from bullet performance then there is something to be concerned with.

Hornady, should have people at the shows who at least know how to engage the consumer in a positive manner. Ignoring perceived or actual bullet performance issues will not help the brand.

As has been noted Hornady makes a major contribution to the hunting and shooting world. From hard to find ammunition to reloading supplies and equipment Hornady is there. I would hate to see them go under or reduce product lines because they fail to recognize the concern people have about their Quality Control.

 

[Bert the Turtle]

I've had a round of self-defense handgun ammo from another major manufacturer that had the primer installed improperly. As in it would not have fired had I tried to use it.

My intention is not to defend Hornady, but rather to simply point out that mistakes up to and including non-functional ammo can happen and does escape QC. In the case of dangerous game ammo (which certainly includes self-defense ammo) one is wise to inspect every round, weigh every round, and ensure that each round fit the chamber.

 

[cpr0312]

In the case of dangerous game ammo (which certainly includes self-defense ammo) one is wise to inspect every round, weigh every round, and ensure that each round fit the chamber.

Very sound advice especially reading all of this and other threads regarding this!

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

In the case of dangerous game ammo (which certainly includes self-defense ammo) one is wise to inspect every round, weigh every round, and ensure that each round fit the chamber.

Very sound advice especially reading all of this and other threads regarding this!

Yes, X2!