Is there a reason to go beyond 470NE?

Discussion in 'Double Rifles' started by EDELWEISS, Sep 12, 2011.

  1. EDELWEISS

    EDELWEISS AH Senior Member

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    Im currently in the earliest of planning for a DG game hunt for 2013 or 14, which I hope to include Elephant, and Hippo and Buffalo. Part of me NEEDS a DR 577NE; but realistically Im more thinking 500NE. Much of this is for the mine is bigger part of me.

    Its probably safe to say 470 is more than sufficient for even the biggest of the DG. If I were a betting guy, Id have to wager at least a wooden nickle that 470NE is the most common caliber for Dangerous Game double rifles. Id also have to bet 470NE would be the easiest to find if the airlines separated me from my ammo. How often does that happen? I hear horror stories about it and would never choose a wildcat cartridge just because of those stories; but is it really a problem? As long as Im running the paranoid route, How hard is it to come by 500NE or 577NE in an emergency, in say South Afrika, Namibia, Tanzania, etc?

    Is 470 enough of a standard that its worth sticking with the crowd? Is 500NE enough of an improvement to make the leap? AND will you all say Im reeeeeeeelly cool if I get a 577NE?
  2. Code4

    Code4 AH Enthusiast

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    We all hear horror storys, but the vast majority of trips go without a hitch. If you lose your ammo your probably going to lose other personal items as well. IMO we risk more chance of falling ill than loseing our ammo.

    Others with experience of doubles can answer the question re: ammo availability.

    My last PH favoured the .470 for elephant. It is probably easier to handle than anything bigger.

    It's always safer to stay home where we are familiar with the status quo. Going to Africa is about hunting, learning and experiencing life outside our norm. That to me is half the attraction.
  3. enysse

    enysse AH Ambassador

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    I can't emphasize how important it is to have a gun, where the cartridge is very well known. It really cuts down on the costs of owning that firearm. I don't think anything bigger than a 470NE is needed. The 500NE is a nice gun...but trying buy ammo on a hunt is your ammo is lost? Do you want to be borrowing a camp gun?
  4. Red Leg

    Red Leg GOLD SUPPORTER AH Fanatic

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    The calibers listed imply that you are planning to purchase a double rifle. In such a configuration, the .470 tends to make a more combact and easier carrying package than the .500 or .577. The .577, in particular, is bordering on crew served weapon demensions which will take a toll on a long stern chase on your elephant. I also think it is important to remember, short of a dramatic change in profession, we play the role of client, not PH. Our chief ethical responsibility is to make that first shot as perfect as it can be. Your PH's responsibility is to sort out resulting problems. That doesn't mean we clients are obsolved from assisting in that follow up, but I think it does entail a responsibility to shape our primary weapon around that first shot. Depending upon your ability, that may or may not be a double. If this is your first dangerous game hunt, then a bolt action with detachable scope in .416 might be a better choice. I would also agree that a relatively common caliber is important, but not because of lost baggage. If you decide to go with a double then you need to remember it will get relatively little use during your stewardship (how many DG hunts can we make in a lifetime?). A more common caliber will be much easier for you or a heir to sell than one chambered in a more obscure round.
  5. spike.t

    spike.t GOLD SUPPORTER AH Legend

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    i would say if you want a double rifle go for it. however the main thing to take into consideration is how good you are with iron sights. if you havent had a lot of experience using them i would agree going the detachable scope .416 rigby route. if you are happy with your capabilities then go for the .470 or .450 3/4. the .577 rifles tend to be in the 15 pound weight region which after a very short time walking through the bush will feel twice that! you can get yourself a .470 or .450 that weighs 10 1/2 to 11 pounds which you will still feel but is acceptable. they are also more usable on the larger non dangerous animals such as eland, wildebeest and zebra etc, so you can use the rifle more and keep the accountants happy in that its more cost effective!! any excuse i say.
  6. Double D

    Double D AH Senior Member

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    I think there is no good reason not to if thats what you want. Your rifles are more likley going to get delayed than your ammo. It happens, but so far touch wood it hasnt happened to me yet, come to think of it I have never actualy met anyone who didnt get their guns and ammo on arrival. So what ever you dream about packing is what you should buy. I pack a 10 lb 4 oz .500 when I hunt with a double and its great, so go for it.
  7. .416 Rigby

    .416 Rigby AH Member

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    I own a .470 and am well pleased with it in all respects. Having handled a .577 at SCI Reno, it is simply too much rifle to tote around comfortably. My PH has a .500, but in retrospect, wishes he got a .470 instead. Many clients show up with .470's, hence lots of access to .470 ammo. No one yet has arrived with a .500. For him, .500 N.E. ammunitionis very difficult to obtain.
  8. KMG Hunting Safaris

    KMG Hunting Safaris SPONSOR AH Elite

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    Spot on!
  9. Glenn

    Glenn New Member

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    I would suggest that one ascertains just which or if any of the .470 NE, 500 NE or .577 NE Doubles that you are able to fire rapidly, with no recoil problems, it is not about being "cool" , it is about shooting to stay alive. There is not a corner Sporting Goods store in the bush to replace anything instantly. If your equipment goes south, you had better be with a PH who is a quality individual and has the kit to lend you should you have a conundrum. In many years we have never had anything not turn up or break. As Mr. Boddington would say, practice, practice and practice some more. Use good equipment, make certain that it works properly. I have two friends who travel with us on elepahnt, hippo, buffalo and other large dangerous game, one who is ex-offensive lineman for the Cowgirls and myself similar size are able to handle a .577 without a problem but both own and carry a .470 NE due to the lighter weight, ease of carry on a very long track and much easier to regain control for a second shot when the elephant is seriously angry and 10 foot away. Our other mate loves his custom .416 Rigby for the same reasons we use the .470 NE. It is definately not about being cool, it is about being alive and staying that way. A great suggestion is to watch over and over Craig Boddington and Ivan Carter's two disc DVD on elephant hunting. The Caprivi strip in Nambia is great for elephant, Tanzania is great but seriously costly as is Botswana. Zambia is now open for CITES imports to the USA, Zimbabwe is great and reasonable if you use a reliable outfitter, South Africa is costly and is really not a real elephant hunt compared to the aforementioned. Go to the SCI, check things out, ask folks who have been there and will help you with sound suggestions. The only problem you will then face is the end of your Safari and the eagerness to get back the next year.
  10. kebco

    kebco New Member

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    The 450's and 470's are in the same class. The 500 is a big step up in power, the 577 is another big step up from the 500. 500 ammo is available from Hornady at a reasonable cost. 577 and 600 ammo is more difficult however a number of smaller custom loaders offer both. I have made a number of 577's in the 13.5 weight range and to date had not had a customer say they could not handle the recoil. Last Friday I did a demo shoot with a 450 and among the shooters I had three women try out the gun. Two of the women shot very well, one struggled with the recoil, all the men did OK.
    Travel....I have never had my ammo go missing, however I have had my gun go missing for a few days on several occasions
  11. Jaco Zeeman

    Jaco Zeeman AH Member

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    470 NE will serve you well on all DG in Africa! If you will have only one DG hunt with the double; so be it! You used a African icon on the hunt. You can still enjoy Big Bor shooting as we have in South Africa.
  12. BARTFRNCS

    BARTFRNCS AH Enthusiast

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    Hello having shot all of the mentioned cals I say go with the biggest you can shoot well!!!!! I personaly would choose the 500 Nitro Express.
  13. EDELWEISS

    EDELWEISS AH Senior Member

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    Well as my soon to ex-wife would say, I listened to everything, then did what I wanted too....". An opportunity presented to purchase a Ruger No.1 converted to 577NE by SSK, for a very good price. Its not a double so I'll have to deal with that; but it was too hard to pass on the 577. I still want a double and may yet have to worry about 470 vs 500; but for now Im practicing with the No.1!

    As for my heirs having trouble selling my guns if theyre in odd calibers; well it serves them right for selling my guns, especially my doubles. I watch the Pawn shop TV shows and become infuriated when kids want to sell Dad's prized possessions; words like ungrateful and afew others come to mind!
  14. timbear

    timbear AH Enthusiast

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    I like you way of thinking and hope you have fun with your .577. As for the kids, that's really up to you. If you have infected then thoroughly with the hunting bug, the only problem will be the fight who inherits which gun...:punch:
    As for your original question: probably not - but it's FUN!
  15. BH206L3

    BH206L3 New Member

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    Well a friend has a 577 NE. and he talked me into going hunting for Buffalo some years back. I carried that rifle for one whole day just to say I did it. Way to heavy, the next day my old ZKK 602 375 felt a whole lot lighter. Never mind about being able to shoot the thing accurately enough. In the end buy what you want, its mostly about want as apposed to need. How much DG hunting do you plan on doing in the next 20 or so years? 500's and 577's become pretty much hanger queens after a while. If it was me, I would have a good smith and do up a 416 Remington and call it a day if you figure the 375 is to little gun. My DG hunting is well behind me so my opinion on the subject maybe a moot point to you. These days I like simple no BS rifles and shotguns, and I put my money down on hunting or trophy fees.
  16. Red Leg

    Red Leg GOLD SUPPORTER AH Fanatic

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    Well good on you then. Only caveat to my earlier comments would be that were I using a single shot, I might be tempted to go up a bit more in caliber if I could handle it accurately. Hope they didn't put one of those anti-tank weapon, muzzle breaks on the thing with which some of their conversions are equipped.
  17. enysse

    enysse AH Ambassador

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    Fine words! I really liked your input.
  18. redriverjake

    redriverjake AH Senior Member

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    I've heard of an old elephant hunter that used to prefer to carry a single shot .600 NE... the first shot counts and I think I'd like to have the .577 insted anyways. I've also been called a little crazy, but never reckless.
  19. EDELWEISS

    EDELWEISS AH Senior Member

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    Theres no muzzle break at all; but it does have a counter coil recoil system. Im not totally thrilled with the "looks" of it; but Im gonna shoot it before i contemplate changing it since the rifle isnt very heavy.
  20. big tex

    big tex New Member

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    Hit the brain and the elephant does not care, 500 or 577. Unless you are in the field culling elephants see little reason to step up to the 577.
    Hell, I see little sense in going to the 500 myself. Any 450 or 470 will do what you are asking.

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