Is it taboo to hunt White Lion

Discussion in 'Hunting Africa' started by Rocco, Aug 12, 2012.

  1. Rocco

    Rocco New Member

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    I'm going to South Africa to hunt White Lion. I would like to know if anybody hunted the White Lion and like to know from the African people if it's taboo or good luck to hunt the White Lion compared to the normal Yellow Lion.
  2. davidhein

    davidhein AH Veteran

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    I personally don't find it taboo, the white lion is afterall a recessive gene so it does no damage to the normal "yellow" lion.

    My opinion on all hunting is once an animal is too old to breed then hunting it provides an income for the farmer/community and creates a space for a new herd/pride dominant male to take over and continue the breeding and help stimulate the growth of the local population.

    I have no idea what the traditional natives believe of the white lion. I do know that some believe shooting a white kudu will cause your death though.
  3. shakari

    shakari AH Enthusiast

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    Any white lion & damn near any lion in RSA is going to be captive bred at the very best and full of sedating drugs at worst.

    I have absolutely no respect for anyone involved in such a shoot (it's not a hunt) and any real hunter wouldn't take part in such a travesty.
  4. Frostbit

    Frostbit AH Senior Member

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    Tell them what you really think Steve. :smash:
  5. TOM

    TOM AH Elite

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    I might have missed it but i dont think he asked your opinion on the hunt itself. We are a bit more civilized to each other here than some other sites....
  6. RickB

    RickB AH Fanatic

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    I would have to agree. Here we go down this path of; I do.t like the way you hunt and you should only hunt like me!!

    Sorry Rocco, I wish I had some input for you. I am not any good on this topic.
  7. Bobpuckett

    Bobpuckett GOLD SUPPORTER AH Legend

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    Have to agree with you Tom, I too think he's way off subject and everybody is welcome to their own opinion so I say he leaves his gun at home climb in the fenced area with this pride of druged captive bred bunch of lions and offer them a bologna sandwich for lunch have a friend bring a camera I always wondered if Lions liked bologna. oops now I'm off subject Rocco I have friends /PH's that I know that have Guided on both wild and captive bred Lion hunts I will shoot them an email and ask them there opinion. Bob
  8. Stretch

    Stretch AH Fanatic

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    I believe to some native African people the white lion represents a sacred messenger from god. It is my opinion that if it legal to hunt them and it is done under fair chase then there is nothing wrong with hunting these majestic animals. I wish you the best of luck.
  9. detutt

    detutt AH Member

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    Come on guys I think we are all adults. Don't knock any other hunters for what they do. REMEMBER that united we stand divided we ALL fall. Take your hat off to any animal breeder, and thank them for what we have. Take out the old animals and get on with life. Be prowed of all your hunting and know that YOU are contributing to conservation
  10. davidhein

    davidhein AH Veteran

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    I answered the above question in line with the white lion and not the hunt itself, seeing that it has now come up, I have to agree. If the animal cant get away and elude you then it is a canned hunt and that part of the hunt is without a doubt taboo.
    The white lion itself in my opnion is not a taboo hunt, again, canned hunting is a huge no to me and to most hunters.
  11. DOC-404

    DOC-404 AH Elite

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    Gentlemen, to some of us 'older' fellows, PH's, ex PH'S and hunters, this is a very touchy subject here in Africa at present. Anyone who knows Steve Shakari Robinson, has read any of his books or has hunted with him, will understand his comment. There is a lot of nonsense going on in the 'Lion Hunting' industry and Rocco's question, however innocent, will be difficult to answer without evoking some emotion from some of us. Let us just be fair to each other.
  12. shakari

    shakari AH Enthusiast

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    And now I'll prove my point.

    The statement & question was:

    " I'm going to South Africa to hunt White Lion. I would like to know if anybody hunted the White Lion and like to know from the African people if it's taboo or good luck to hunt the White Lion compared to the normal Yellow Lion".

    The basic definition of the word taboo in this usage is: unmentionable or unthinkable etc. The definitions rattle on a bit but that's the basic crux of the matter in the case in hand.

    As you SHOULD (note the big should) all know, the vast majority of lions that are hunted in RSA are captive bred and those few that are not are habituated to humans and vehicles at the very least. IMO at least, there is no such thing as a truly wild lion anywhere in RSA.

    As far as (true) white lions go, I'll bet a pound to a pinch of the brown stuff that every single one of them in RSA has been captive bred for several decades.

    The animal will at the very least have been released a few days before the client's arrival and more likely a few short hours before his arrival. It's fairly likely that the animal will have at least some sedating drug still in his system and therefore won't be able to function to anything close to his fullest potential. He certainly won't have been self supporting for any significant period of time and probably won't ever have even made a natural kill.

    It's almost certain that he won't know the area he's in and therefore won't be able to use his knowledge of that area to evade the shooters (not hunters) even in the unlikely event he had his full faculties about him.

    Someone mentioned the original poster should be proud (not prowed) of his contribution to conservation. Take a look at the canned lion shooting to be seen on you-tube and then read the comments underneath the film. These shoots put more ammo in the hands of anti-hunters than any other type of behaviour (by hunters) to be found on the net. They most certainly don't do a single good thing for conservation and in fact damage the image and reputations of safari hunters and operators worldwide.

    If the original poster doubts my word, I'd suggest he also takes a good look at the poor bloody excuse for a lion he's just shot and check it out for scars etc (caused by fighting (as opposed to stanley knife inflicted))............ A wild lion earns his place in pride society by fighting for it and a lion that's spent it's like in a pen doesn't.......

    I also suggest he takes a blood sample immediately after the kill and has it analysed by several independent experts in his home country to find out if the animal was under any kind of sedation at the time it was shot. Some of the drugs available now will even let the animal sit up and look around but not even walk away, let alone run or charge etc........ none however, (to the best of my knowledge) are undetectable by correct analysis.

    Canned lion hunting has been spreading throughout Africa for many years and not only can it not do any good for the cause of real fair chase hunting, it can only damage the sport and the industry that once was extremely fine and honourable and if I had my way, captive lion breeding would be highly illegal throughout Africa.

    I have several articles on my own site about how unethical canned hunting is and how easily a client can be duped into thinking he's not taking part in a canned hunt but I'm not a site sponsor here so wouldn't dream of going beyond mentioning that fact.

    Believe me, any lion 'hunt' in RSA should be viewed with a degree of scepticism and any white lion 'hunt' in RSA should be viewed with a VERY high degree of scepticism.

    He asked if there were any taboos and he got my opinion on that question.
  13. shakari

    shakari AH Enthusiast

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    I'll add that someone mentioned that 'once an animal is too old to breed then hunting it provides an income for the farmer/community and creates a space for a new herd/pride dominant male to take over and continue the breeding and help stimulate the growth of the local population'

    In the case of canned lion shooting, this doesn't apply because the animals are not part of the wild population at all & the breeding thereof is nothing more than a profit making exercise based on farming.

    I'll also add that I regard captive lion breeding & shooting & everyone involved in it (including clients) as the greatest threat to the long term survival & success of the African hunting safari industry that exists today & if that industry fails then the continent's wildlife populations will also surely fail utterly & completely.

    For those of you who think my comments are somewhat radical or impolite, believe me, I've given you the polite version of what I really think! :)
  14. Red Leg

    Red Leg GOLD SUPPORTER AH Fanatic

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    I absolutely agree with Shakari. I think most people - African, American, black, white, or whatever - are appalled by canned hunting. The notion that I should have to approve of the practice because the shooter somehow represents my sport is a ridiculous premiss. Sort of like entering a suicide pact. We are now seeing the same thing spreading to Shakari's beloved buffalo. An advertiser here has photos of available bulls with measurements (and prices) included for the prospective buffalo shopper. Not only is this sort of thing not "hunting", it smears all of us who believe in fair chase. Does this mean that all game farm hunting is also unethical? I don't believe so. But we are walking a very thin edge whenever we pass through a game fence. Certainly pursuing an eland from wild breeding stock on 70K acres qualifies as hunting. Shooting the same bull of the back forty of a small game farm (after likely being purchased at a game auction) is a very different thing.

    So yes, I think shooting white lions should be taboo for all of us who wish to preserve our sport.
  15. davidhein

    davidhein AH Veteran

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    I've argued this many times.
    Once you are on a ranch persuing a specific animal and are guarenteed of that specific one then it means that animal can not get away. If you are (as mentioned above) hunting eland or kudu or impala or whatever on a 10000ha farm, that animal can, and will, get away from you. A high fence does not mean an animal is "captive", Kruger Park has a high fence... the size of the area describes whether that animal is captive - can it look after itself, survive on its own, without human interaction?

    As for my comment on income for the farmer/community, I was NOT referring to to or cagedanimals, but self serving animals. If the farmer/community has incentive they will not remove wildlife and farm cattle/sheep/goats instead on the property.

    As for Lions in South Africa, well you can almost bet your dollar they are captive bred. Laws have been put in place that they must be "free roaming" for a certain time on a certain size property - whether this always happen I'm not sure as I am not involved in it.

    My lion hunt one day will be a 21 day hunt, I want to track the lion on foot with my PH and trackers... And I wont be doing it in my own country.

    Everyone has their own ethics and moral values. However, never let your decisions or choices put an entire tradition or community on the line. Make sure on what you decide, be comfortable with the way you hunted, but again, do not put an entire hunting community on the line.
  16. shakari

    shakari AH Enthusiast

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    David

    I hope you won't mind me correcting you on a couple of points:

    There's an immense difference between shooting (I refuse to use the word hunting in this context) a lion that is probably drugged & has recently or more likely very recently been released into a fenced area of whatever size & hunting a plains game animal that has all it's senses about it & has spent all or a major part of it's life in that same area & knows said area & all it's escape routes etc.

    You also say that "Laws have been put in place that they must be "free roaming" for a certain time on a certain size property" - That statement is incorrect because lions were exempted from those requirements at the last moment by the Minister of the time because the lion breeders association threatened to sue him.

    The reason for their objection is that it would have created a situation where lion breeding/releasing/shooting was not economically viable because of the cost of the game animals the lion would kill during the (6 months if I remember correctly) 'wilding period'.

    At this moment in time, RSA (according to the new act) does not (theoretically) classify lions to be dangerous animals....... I appreciate that's ridiculous but that's how the law stands at this moment in time.

    I personally believe that those who shoot captive bred/canned lions are not only putting an entire hunting community on the line but also the entire industry & all of African game on the line because it's putting ammo into the hands of the antis who want to ban hunting & if hunting is banned in Africa, the locals will kill all the game in short order & they'll be none left.
  17. davidhein

    davidhein AH Veteran

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    Sorry Sharkari, my comments seem to come across differently as i wanted to express them. I was trying to draw comparison that hunting plains game is very different to shooting lion due to the fact that PG can and will get away from you - where a guaranteed lion (a specific one especially) can not be called hunting as this lion (according to the guarantee) has no chance of eluding your bullet or arrow in the few days hunting.

    Thanks for clarifying the law, I thought it applied to all animals. Although I kind of knew that even if the law was in place it wasn't necessarily followed.

    And I fully agree that putting the entire hunting industry on the line is exactly what we should avoid. One person can easily be the demise of an entire industry.
  18. shakari

    shakari AH Enthusiast

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    David

    I'm going from memory but believe the act was called something like Dangerous Animals Act & it obviously related to just that........ for Minister Van Shalkwyk (sp?) to remove lions from the schedule of dangerous animals at the last moment is in my opinion an absolute disgrace...... but there ya go.

    All one has to do to see what a travesty these captive lion shoots are is take a look on the internet & you'll see many companies even offer such packages on ridiculously short time periods........ anyone who thinks they stand even a chance of taking a wild lion on a 2 or 3 day trip is truly deluded and not far short of being a mucking foron!

    If I had my way, these companies would have been put out of business many years ago.
  19. RickB

    RickB AH Fanatic

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    taï½·boo/təˈbo͞o/
    Noun:
    A custom prohibiting or restricting a particular practice or forbidding association with a particular person, place, or thing

    Adjective:
    Prohibited or restricted by custom

    Verb:
    Place under such prohibition

    Skakari, I feel your definitioin of taboo is wrong. I also feel you are missing the point of the question. He did not ask your take on canned hunts.
  20. DOC-404

    DOC-404 AH Elite

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    ..too true..like Ken Drummond in Zimbabwe..

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