Hunting packages and pressure to shoot more

Discussion in 'Hunting Africa' started by nilsht, Aug 18, 2014.

  1. nilsht

    nilsht New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2014
    Messages:
    1
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Oslo, Norway
    I have been to Poland where I quite quickly had shot most of my animals contracted. There I experienced a pressure to shoot almost any legal animal that was possible to shoot. I did not want to spend more money on trophy fees and declined. The pressure was so that I decided to leave early.
    Is this normal in South Africa too? I want to have control of the costs of my safari, I do not want to be under constant pressure to shoot more animals than planned and purchased in a package.
     
  2. BRICKBURN

    BRICKBURN SUPER MODERATOR CONTRIBUTOR GOLD BENEFACTOR AH Ambassador

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2010
    Messages:
    7,234
    Likes Received:
    245
    My Photos:
    396
    Member of:
    KZN Hunters Assoc
    Hunted:
    Namibia, South Africa, Botswana, Canada, USA, Mexico
    I have heard of some stories of this type of incident occurring.
    It is NOT the norm.
     
  3. Nyati

    Nyati AH Legend

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2011
    Messages:
    2,666
    Likes Received:
    39
    Location:
    Madrid, Spain
    My Photos:
    40
    Member of:
    RFEC, RFETO
    Hunted:
    Finland, RSA ( KwaZulu Natal, Limpopo, North West ), Spain
    I have never done a "package hunt", but made my own list.

    I have been suggested to shoot animals not on my list, which I do understand, it is a business, after all. But having stated I was not interested, that was the end of it.
     
  4. Divernhunter

    Divernhunter AH Veteran

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2012
    Messages:
    187
    Likes Received:
    5
    Location:
    Denair, California USA
    Member of:
    Life member NRA and NAHC Escalon Sportsmans club and Coalinga Rifle Club. Member of SCI
    Hunted:
    USA, RSA
    It was not that way with Iliwa Safaris last year when my daughter and I hunted with them.

    Actually after booking the hunt package and arriving we wanted to take more animals. They made that happen except for one animal I selected which we did not find the certain one I wanted. Saw it earlier in the hunt before I decided I want that one old animal. Not their fault. That is hunting and mine for not speaking up sooner.
     
  5. gillettehunter

    gillettehunter AH Fanatic

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2009
    Messages:
    611
    Likes Received:
    29
    My Photos:
    14
    Hunted:
    Namibia, Kyrgyzstan South Africa
    Its a business and they would always like to "upsell" you when possible. If you tell your PH ahead of time that you are financially unable to take any other animals that should take care of it. Your PH wants you to have a great time and to return. Best to have this talk at the beginning of the trip. Bruce
     
  6. Tootabi Hunting Safaris

    Tootabi Hunting Safaris SPONSOR AH Enthusiast

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2013
    Messages:
    457
    Likes Received:
    77
    Location:
    Tootabi Hunting Safaris
    My Photos:
    33
    Member of:
    SA Hunters
    Hunted:
    Namibia, Botswana, Zimbabwe, Zambia
    Good advise Bruce. Yes I suggest each client/hunter needs to have a open and transparent conversation with his PH and or Outfitter to clear out any misperceptions and requirements. I always request a wish list from my clients along with what they expect and what not so that we know exactly what the wishes is.

    PH's and Outfitters would always like to have a client shoot/harvest more trophies than normal, however putting pressure on a client to do so is unheard of and not the way too conduct business. If the client decides on shooting an extra animal, good for him and great for the Outfitter. If he decides to only take what's indicated on the wish list and or packages then that is also good.

    At least it has been discussed and there is no hope for anything more. Whatever is added SHOULD be regarded as a BONUS. :p

    Lastly, putting pressure on a client to shoot more will put unnecessary tension on the "hunting relationship" and could most possibly ruin future hunts and or even referrals.

    Just my 2 cents...
     
    ActionBob, Velo Dog and rphguy like this.
  7. rphguy

    rphguy AH Enthusiast

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2012
    Messages:
    308
    Likes Received:
    54
    I've had 2 trips with the same safari company and PH.
    1. Never experienced a pressure to shoot inferior animals, just the opposite.
    All the PH's on here know that when you get back you're going to
    post your hunt pics on this forum. To have you shoot and display pics of inferior animals would embarrass them
    and hurt their business. Their business is to put you in front of trophy sized animals.

    2. My first hunt, my son and I had 4 animals each picked out, but not set in stone. Yet, most on their first
    safari don't go overboard unless they are wealthy. When I told Marius I wanted to add a waterbuck toward the
    end of our hunt, he asked "Jerry, are you sure. You know they are expensive." I replied, "If you can put me in front
    of one that is exceptional, then 'yes', but he must be really good."
    He put me, with much effort, in front of a 30.5 inch waterbuck. Best $2K that I've ever spent.
    A good PH will not try to "sell you" extra animals like you're on a car lot. They stick to what you tell them.
    ** Now if an extraordinary animal not on your list presents itself, he ought to tell you that and the price for that animal
    and ASK YOU if you want it.

    This trip I told my PH up front. "Here's the list I definitely want. And here's the list of what I would hunt if we stumble on one."
    ** That second part was a long list. lol

    and Loodt is right on target with his post.
     
  8. Velo Dog

    Velo Dog AH Fanatic

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2014
    Messages:
    863
    Likes Received:
    172
    Location:
    Anchorage
    My Photos:
    12
    Member of:
    NRA Life Member.
    Hunted:
    Namibia (1), South Africa (3) & USA (most Western States, including AK & HI). Too bad spear fishing is not called "fish hunting" or, I could add a few extra countries (couldn't resist weaving that in somehow, sorry).
    +1.
     
  9. K-man

    K-man AH Veteran

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2013
    Messages:
    161
    Likes Received:
    47
    My Photos:
    11
    Hunted:
    Zimbabwe, New Zealand, British Columbia, Oklahoma, Texas, Kansas, Utah, Colorado, New Mexico, Wyoming
    When I was in zim it was almost the other way around. I wanted to shoot almost everything I saw, and take out a second mortgage whenI got back. My p.h. Leon only let me shoot mature animals and also knew what he still had on quota. I agree with communication beforehand because there is no time in the field with a trophy in front of you.
     
    woods1126 likes this.
  10. CAustin

    CAustin AH Fanatic

    Joined:
    May 7, 2013
    Messages:
    708
    Likes Received:
    97
    My Photos:
    38
    Hunted:
    South Africa
    Nilsht,
    I have hunted with African Sky Safaris the last two years and have never once felt pressured to add an animal. Tell your outfitter what you want and settle on the price before going. I doubt you will be pushed, however I think a good PH will ask if you have what you want and if there is anything else you would like to harvest.
     
  11. Spooksar

    Spooksar AH Veteran

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2013
    Messages:
    140
    Likes Received:
    17
    Hunted:
    South Africa, Namibia, Canada (BC, Alberta Nunavet)
    My first Safari was a package deal, the owners boy friend suggested I shoot more then I contracted for. My reply was when I get everything I wanted on my list, I would think about in, end of story. My last 3 Safaris I shot extra on my own choice, I had gotten everything I had wanted, before hand
     
  12. BigSteve57

    BigSteve57 GOLD SUPPORTER AH Veteran

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2013
    Messages:
    118
    Likes Received:
    5
    Location:
    Ellicott City, MD USA
    My Photos:
    7
    Member of:
    SCI, NRA, Associated Gun Clubs of Baltimore MD,MD State Rifle & Pistol Assn., MD Rifle Club
    Hunted:
    USA, Namibia
    The PH we used on our trip to Namibia didn't pressure us. But by the same token we had never been on a hunting safari before so having absolutely no history we were therefore "game" for anything. Pun intended. We had our "list" like a lot of people do but we quickly filled it. We were quite shocked at completing our "list". We had been mentally prepared to see absolutely no game at all as has been the case with hunting here in the USA. But I digress.

    So with our original "list" fulfilled then just what to do? Well we kept hunting!

    We did discuss all this beforehand and the PH was always respectful of our wallets by telling us what the fees would be BEFORE we took the shot. This was done in the evening or when we set out on the morning or even when something unexpectedly appeared. For example he'd say "So Steve if we see a <insert game animal here> or if I could arrange access to an area where <insert game animal here> have been seen recently the trophy fee is $X would you be interested?" We said OK to Waterbuck but balked at the fee for Sable, for instance. We did enjoy teasing him in a good humored way by saying "So was that Kudu new tires? New TV? " etc...

    BTW, the Waterbuck got away. We never saw a Sable but I'm afraid if I had I would have probably caved in.

    I suppose if we had been pressured we would have simply dug our heels in and refused.
    But on our next trip we'll be a lot more picky.;)
     
  13. ActionBob

    ActionBob AH Fanatic

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2011
    Messages:
    586
    Likes Received:
    195
    Member of:
    NRA
    Hunted:
    USA, South Africa
    We went to RSA with every intent to take more than our package deal. I was determined to dilute out the overhead expense and did just that. On the last day it was suggested we go after Waterbuck but we wanted a fallow deer so declined as it would have been an all day deal to drive to the area and have time to properly hunt for a good waterbuck... And they were 3x the cost of fallow deer. That was it and we got a fine fallow deer.

    Several of the animals we took were not on our list until we got there and saw them. I do suggest you have a plan to pay for extra animals or make standby arrangement s with your outfitter in case you get filled early and are done hunting.... There are several lower cost animals you can always go after as well.
     
  14. Foxi

    Foxi AH Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2012
    Messages:
    58
    Likes Received:
    8
    My Photos:
    5
    Member of:
    when you wish something to know about hunting in Germany try www.landlive.de-than the bottom Jagd-its not so bad.My nickname there is Katzenfutter(no word for the english tongue)
    Hunted:
    Canada, USA,Austria,Turkey,Tschech Rep.,Poland,Hungary,Serbia,Denmark,Namibia and England(England is wonderful) Romania,Zambia,Zimbabwe
    a (few) question(s) ,when licences are still to sell or capacity is available, was normal and allowed.
    Equal, where I ve hunted in the world, I have been asked for that and this was OK.
    But pressure is more than impolite.
    A NO must accept as a NO (by the girls also :-(
    Foxi
     
    woods1126 likes this.
  15. WESTFALEN HUNTING SAFARIS

    WESTFALEN HUNTING SAFARIS AH Member

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2014
    Messages:
    33
    Likes Received:
    7
    Location:
    NORTH WESTERN NAMIBIA, AFRICA
    Member of:
    NAPHA, NTB
    Communication with your PH at the start of your safari is very important to avoid any misunderstandings of any kind.
     
  16. Cody Malone

    Cody Malone GOLD SUPPORTER AH Senior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2014
    Messages:
    98
    Likes Received:
    22
    Location:
    NE Texas
    Member of:
    DSC, Delta Waterfowl, Ducks Unlimited
    I just got to RSA today and was instantly up sold on a big animal or two I didn't plan but just because my PH knew I really wanted them from our previous messages and he found me two killer deals on awesome animals. I'm keeping the species quite till they get a dirt nap
     
    woods1126 likes this.
  17. CAustin

    CAustin AH Fanatic

    Joined:
    May 7, 2013
    Messages:
    708
    Likes Received:
    97
    My Photos:
    38
    Hunted:
    South Africa
    Get them Cody. It's a dirt nap then a wall mount.
     
  18. woods1126

    woods1126 BRONZE SUPPORTER AH Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2012
    Messages:
    74
    Likes Received:
    28
    Location:
    upstate NY
    My Photos:
    1
    Member of:
    SCI, APHA
    Hunted:
    Eastern Cape
    Hello all, I believe buying a package puts unneeded "pressure" on the hunter and PH from the git go. Meaning, you prepaid for animals you NOW need to take. I chose to do a traditional hunt in as I paid the day fees and then paid for the trophy fee for any animal taken. I had my "wish list", but also went out each day with an open mind and by the end, took a couple animals I wasn't planning on, just because when I saw them in the wild and not on the computer screen, I "had" to have em! Some mornings I stayed back at the lodge and enjoyed the morning with my wife and son. Also if I killed something in the morning, I wouldn't hunt the afternoon. I wouldn't of had this luxury if I was trying to fill a package that I had already paid for. This is my opinion only. Kevin
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2014
  19. WESTFALEN HUNTING SAFARIS

    WESTFALEN HUNTING SAFARIS AH Member

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2014
    Messages:
    33
    Likes Received:
    7
    Location:
    NORTH WESTERN NAMIBIA, AFRICA
    Member of:
    NAPHA, NTB
    Thank you Kevin, could not agree with you more.
     
    woods1126 likes this.
  20. LeopardsValleySafaris

    LeopardsValleySafaris AH Veteran

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2014
    Messages:
    109
    Likes Received:
    41
    Location:
    South Africa
    Member of:
    SCI , PHASA
    Hunted:
    South Africa, Namibia, Zimbabwe
    A hunting Safari is a vacation, first and foremost. People need to have a good time and shoot good animals or they are not going to enjoy their trip.

    Putting undue pressure on someone to shoot an animal they are not really interested in is just going to ruin the experience .

    On arrival I have a good idea as to what you want and how you want to hunt. We will chat about that with the PH. And discuss other species that we might encounter that are of good quality in the hunting area. If we see an out of the ordinary good animal of any species we will DEFINATELY point it out as is human nature.

    Hunters need to keep in mind though that hunting is hunting and when a package has been completed, you can't go back and look for that monster Steenbuck or Warthog seen 3-4 days ago.

    So have a definate list in mind and also a extras list and let the PH Know so he can keep an eye out. You might not shoot them in order of preference either.
    In good hunting
    Dave
     

Share This Page