Hunting Lion

Discussion in 'Hunting Africa' started by Mike70560, Apr 6, 2009.

  1. Shallom

    Shallom AH Enthusiast

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    Bill,
    checked out your Puku - well done. Hope you got to taste some of it. Makes for some good eating. Am gonna start collecting your books soon. Ahsante,
     
  2. Skyline

    Skyline AH Fanatic

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    Ryan.. I think I could get by with a runty 16 inch Puku. LOL My friend the buff hunting would be first string. And, some day lion.
     
  3. billrquimby

    billrquimby AH Veteran

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    Ryan:

    Yes, we ate some of the puku. I also ate a portion of the backstrap from the lion I shot on the same trip. I enjoyed both. Everyone in camp thought I was crazy to eat cat meat, but I've also eaten caracal, mountain lion and bobcat, and it's all good.

    If you're serious about obtaining a few of my books, here are some I liked better than the others:

    From Safari Club International
    The History of Safari Club International

    From Trophy Room Books
    McElroy Hunts Dangerous Game (I ghostwrote his last four books)

    From Safari Press
    Sixty Years A Hunter
    Royal Quest (this is about Prince Abdorreza of Iran)
    Wind In My Face by Hubert Thummler with BQ

    Bill Quimby
     
  4. Die Ou Jagter

    Die Ou Jagter AH Member

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    Bill is so correct, I have had Mt Lion and Leopard. I fixed the Mt Lion for my office staff (all women) and there was none left. I took a piece of loin and stuffed it with a corn bread stuffing and roasted and served with a nice plum/horseradish sauce and I also did some of the loin on the grill for Mothers Day and again most guests were women and all enjoyed. I had some of my Leopard loin done like chicken fried steak and it was great. Looking forward to trying Lion and other African cats.
     
  5. Shallom

    Shallom AH Enthusiast

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    Bill,
    thanks for the book shortlist... will let you know as i slowly get through the titles. Am glad you had a piece of your lion. Anyone who hunts lion with me is obligated to have a taste and everyone has loved it so far. Over the years I have found that the rump steak is better tasting than the backstraps. I like your style bwana. Cheers,
     
  6. AfricaHunting.com

    AfricaHunting.com FOUNDER AH Ambassador

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    Breeding Lion in South Africa

    Breeding Lion in South Africa
    Presentation to Ministerial Committee on Professional and Recreational Hunting, South African Department of Environmental Affairs
    by Limpopo Carnivore Association (LCA), August 2005, Pretoria, South Africa

    [​IMG]

    Introduction
    Large carnivore farming, and in specific lions, started in the early seventies. The initial lion farmers developed the breeding of lions to the level of expertise currently experienced. The same situation developed with the elephant and rhinoceros at a later stage.

    The relevant government institutions took active part in the earlier development of the lion breeders as experienced today. There was a lack of continuity and/or cohesion after the moratorium in the late nineties.

    The above-mentioned moratorium was the result of the Cook Report, something each and every industry experience one or other time. The public was sensitized to the unprofessional activities and in some cases illegal activities taking place. The same happened with the hunting of frozen cheetah in the late and early seventies. To blame lion breeders per sè is irresponsible and unprofessional and not addressing the needs of the reality in the wildlife industry.

    The lion breeders developed a specific activity of the wildlife industry on their own, an activity with a specific nich and need. The expertise is situated within the wild life industry (read lion breeders) itself and not with government or other non-governmental organisations.

    The wildlife industry wants to further contribute to the knowledge base on captive bred lions and there utilization, but a deadlock seems to have been reached with certain organs of state in some provinces.

    It is with great anticipation that LCA participates as bona-fide organisation as carnivore breeders in the same way as EMOA is accepted as well as other organisations in the wild life industry.

    Terms of reference
    The LCA is representing the carnivore breeders of Limpopo province. This presentation is done on behalf of the 32 carnivore breeders in Limpopo province. Many, if not all breeders, are directly or indirectly involved in the wild life industry.

    Situation
    The industry
    There are an estimated 2,500 lions in breeding facilities.
    The average lions facility comprises of ± 40 lions.
    The localities are distributed in the rural-mostly in game farming areas.
    The game farms are used in most cases for various forms of ecotourism.
    Knowledge gained on breeding, conditioning and captive behaviour is exclusively made available by the lion breeders.
    A data base on facts is available as experienced over 35 years.

    Financial implications
    Feeding
    Each lion consumes ± 3 kg meat each day, e.g.± 7 ton of waste meat per day for 2,500 lions. The waste meat originates from abattoirs, butcheries and die-offs in both the stock farming industry as well as the wildlife industry. No previous permanent use for the waste meat could be found, only a certain amount were used in related wildlife activities, e.g. vulture restaurants and croc farming, the rest had to be disposed of in ways that didn’t create and pose health hazards as happened in the past.

    The waste meat capitalized to the amount of ± R2-00 per kg. (R15, 000-00 per day) money not being available previously. This extrapolates to a capital worth of R5,475,000-00 directly available per year. This is not taking into consideration the costs for abattoirs; butcheries etc. disposing of the waste meat in cases where the meat was not being recycled to the lion breeders.

    Manpower
    To manage 2500 lions in breeding facilities a minimum of 250 persons is necessary. The skill levels range from unskilled to skilled lion managers and professional persons from related supporting activities, e.g. veterinarians, game capturers, scientists etc. This contributed to the establishment of new education curricula at tertiary institutions.

    Off late the ecotourism industry developed into new ecotourism destinations were the big five could be experienced in various ways. This created a complete new level of manpower needs.

    Related activities
    Ecotourism
    The ecotourism industry developed with specific needs for consumptive-and non-consumptive utilization. Some of the needs are to display lions in controlled environments for visiting tourists.

    Hunting
    Lions from breeding projects provide ± 250-300 hunts. Calculated at 200 male lion hunts an estimated R 21,000,000-00 with 50 females at R 1,750,000-00 is the estimated gross income from these carnivore breeding projects.

    For the Professional hunter (PH) an additional 10-15% is can be added to the above amounts. The PH also employs a large number of skilled persons, e.g. trackers, guides, skinners, chefs, etc.

    A lion takes approximately 5 days and is facilitated by the Hunting Outfitter at an estimated cost of $ 400-00 per day. This amounts to another R 3,500,000-00 per year.

    Biodiversity implications
    Game farming as practiced in the South African wildlife industry presently, should be seen as a farming activity and not as a preservation project.

    The rational from the lion breeder’s perspective is that lions are a renewable resource that can be utilised within parameters, the same as cattle, impala, ostriches and crocodiles.

    Lions bred and rehabilitated can be hunted under extensive circumstances that provides in a specific need. To date the hunting of lions is limited in South Africa due to their financial implications on game farms as free roaming lions. Hunting under controlled situations is a viable option with financial benefits and has the benefit of reducing the risk of impacting on the natural gene pool that is found only in the, limited, larger National-, Provincial and Private Parks-, Reserves, Ranches and farms.

    Conclusion
    This presentation to the panel is greatly appreciated and is seen and surely experienced as a win-win approach;
    The acceptance of carnivore breeding as a financial asset to the South African, and in specific Limpopo province, wildlife economy will create more welfare.

    The utilization of carnivores as a sustainable resource is an integral part of the Game farming enterprise as no carnivore hunter comes to hunt a carnivore alone but also a spectrum of herbivores.

    The accumulated knowledge of LCA members is available to be used for the wildlife industry as a whole.
     
  7. AfricaHunting.com

    AfricaHunting.com FOUNDER AH Ambassador

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    Lion Hunting Presentation for Sub-Saharan Africa

    Lion Hunting Presentation for Sub-Saharan Africa
    Presentation on Lion hunting submitted to the Panel of Experts (POE), South African Department of Environmental Affairs

    [​IMG]

    Download the entire presentation at View attachment lion-hunting-ssa.pdf .

    An attempt to attain enduring sustainable utilization.

    Status of free-ranging lions in Africa
    • Population status definitely uncertain.
    • Occur on 15% of land surface of SSA.
    • Non-gazetted or pastoral areas = 7%.
    • Conservation areas = 8%.
    • Threatened by over-exploitation, agriculture, encroachment, poaching,
    inbreeding & disease.
    • Everybody agrees that free-ranging lions are decreasing at an unknown rate.

    Download the entire presentation at View attachment lion-hunting-ssa.pdf .
     
  8. DUGABOY1

    DUGABOY1 CONTRIBUTOR AH Enthusiast

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    Shallom, I have never seen a lack of shootable lion in Zambia, at least in the Luangwa Valley but a 100 % guaranteed kill is certainly not predictable! Unless things have changed drastically since I was last there I see no need to import farm-raised lion into Zambia. The word “guarantee” in the adds for lion hunting can be a real wake-up cal to what type lion you will be hunting with that outfitter, but it can give a false idea as well depending what the guarantee is in reference to.

    Reputable outfitters will sometimes have a version of a guarantee for a lion that is not a put and take lion, and are wild lion in open concessions, but doesn’t guarantee you will get a lion. It depends what the guarantee involves.

    I know of one very well known and respected outfit in Zimbabwe that offers a guarantee on a lion, by basically offering a Buffalo daily rate on a basic cape buffalo and plains game safari for enough days to make a lion legal. If a lion is taken or wounded and lost, then the daily rate is upped to the lion hunt rate, and the trophy fee is charged. If no lion is taken or shot and lost, then the daily rate is left at the Buffalo level, and trophy fees apply for the lesser game taken.

    This is a very honest, and aboveboard guarantee that simply doesn’t charge for a lion hunt unless a lion hunt comes about. NOW! If the guarantee is that you will get a lion then the flag is up and waving! In that case further investigation is needed before booking with them, because it is likely a put, and take operation.
     
  9. chad

    chad AH Member

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    I love reading these articles/debates; however, a lion (other than a female) will probably always be a little bit too much "jack" for me to spare.

    Ryan, after seeing that photo of you (i assume) with your lion, I think we have met before. You were exhibiting in Columbia, SC and I was in college, we spoke of a buffalo hunt package that you were offering. I wanted to go but made a bad assumption that I would receive the hunt as a graduation gift, which didn't happen. Did you/do you have an office in North Carolina, if so that was you. It was good talking to you and meeting you.

    If it wasn't you then I guess nevermind.
     
  10. browningbbr

    browningbbr AH Enthusiast

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    Ryan,

    While a 100 percent success rate for 12 straight years does not mean a "guarantee", it still confers bragging rights! (Even if you choose not to exercise those rights.)

    You truly are a great hunter.

    - browningbbr
     
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2010
  11. Rastaman

    Rastaman AH Veteran

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    mike, tried to give you a PM on this issue but your box is full.
     
  12. classicsafari

    classicsafari AH Enthusiast

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    Hi Mike,
    I hunted my second Lion in northern Moz (Niassa Reserve) and had another great Safari.
    This area has plenty of Lion but many mainless.
    The reserve also maintains a strict 6 year minimum age policy.
    There are also man eaters in this area.
    My first Lion came from Zim's Chewore Safari area which also has a high Lion population.
     
  13. Mike70560

    Mike70560 AH Fanatic

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    classicsafari,

    That lion looks good, actually great. Your 425 looks like a Westley Richards that a hunter from Oz owns. He even wears a cool hat like you.


    Did you hunt with the Duckworths in Chewore?
     
  14. classicsafari

    classicsafari AH Enthusiast

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    Mike,
    Thats me..
    I hunted Chewore three times (Wittal ?, Big5 and Chifut).
    Did the lion with Ian Gibson of Big 5 who now works for Chifuti.
    And yes I wear an Acubra or Tilley hat to keep my ears from roasting.
     
  15. Mike70560

    Mike70560 AH Fanatic

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    Good to see you here. Your experience and common sense is welcomed.

    Maybe our paths will cross one day.
     
  16. hunting

    hunting AH Enthusiast

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    Yes it is each person's choice, we had some of the first free roaming lion in the Limpopo, together with Buffalo, Rhino and most plains game. It is a high fenced area . The lion hunt, bred and roam the land freely about 15000 acres. I can only take a number of lion every year and i am not allowed the put and take deal. Now my question is what makes my lion different from my Impala ? Nothing wrong with the size of land for hunting Impala . We hunt lion by picking up the tracks and follow the animal on foot , no bait, lure or from the truck hunting. I rather hunt lion on my property this way than leopard anywhere else in Africa over bait.
    I'm just wondering when is a lion a canned animal and when is a Leopard a canned animal
     
  17. Big5

    Big5 AH Fanatic

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    Hunting-

    Yes, it is each person's choice and to each his own. But in my view there is a major difference between hunting lion on what I consider a relatively small area of about 15000 acres versus actually locating and hunting a free range lion.

    First off, you know the lion, or lions, are in fact contained within the high fenced enclosure. Secondly, you have surely hunted that very same area many, many times over and are likely very familiar with the habits of the lions and the area they hunt and dwell within your enclosure. Finally, after picking up the spoor I have little doubt a lion will elude you and the hunting party for too very long. Sorry, to me that’s just not hunting.

    Again, to each his own. But I, for one, simply have no interest in hunting any animal, anywhere, on a 15000 acre enclosure. It’s just not my thing.
     
  18. danilocf

    danilocf AH Member

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    Hi Big Five,

    Where do you hunt? If "That's just not hunting" like you said, show me one place without fences in USA, South Africa, Canada, Mexico, Spain, Russia or Namibia? Botswana and Zimbabwe, may be...

    Danilo
     
  19. Mike70560

    Mike70560 AH Fanatic

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    Big Five,

    I agree with you 100 percent. A couple of other notes. On a 15,000 acre high fenced concession, how it possible to sustain a healthy lion population taking "a number of lion every year"?

    I thought a pride required a much larger area than 15000 acres and that the pride male would fight/kill any male intruders. It would seem very difficult to have a sustainable lion program without placing male lions in the area yearly. Maybe I am wrong??

    danilocf,

    You must not hunt in the USA if you think everything is fenced. I do not know the percentage of fenced area in the US but it is very small compared to open areas. Pretty sure the same goes for Mexico, Russia, and Canada. As far as Zimbabwe the safari areas are not fenced. The conservancies are fenced, the Save has a perimeter fence around 850,000 acres and about 1/4 of it is gone. It is hard to consider that fenced.

    There are natural boundries such as rivers, lakes, mountains, or populated areas that are more effective than any fence.
     
  20. Big5

    Big5 AH Fanatic

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    Danilo,

    If entering a 15000 acre area to pursue a lion that you already know is out there and unable escape beyond the fenced boundaries is what you wish to do, so be it. I just said it's not my thing. So what?

    And, if you are under the belief that all 'hunting' is conducted behind fences, well, I can only suppose that you must be kidding. You are kidding, right?

    Like I said, to each his own.
     

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