Hunting Cape Buffalo at Night

Discussion in 'Hunting Africa' started by WALKINGPREY2, Jul 17, 2014.

  1. WALKINGPREY2

    WALKINGPREY2 GOLD SUPPORTER AH Veteran

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    From the time the buff was wounded, I repeatedly asked Louie about our going back to hunt the buff. The initial evening I shot the buff was Friday (7/11). The landowner, his partner, his trackers, their dogs, Louie and I did an all out search for the wounded buff the very next day (7/12). It went all day until dusk. We (Louie, two of Louw's trackers and myself) were suppose to go back the next day and do a more thorough search of an area where the blood spots and tracks ended. That was cancelled by Louie because the buff and his companion showed up on the trail cam as having returned to the alfafa pellets at 7pm and then 2am that previous evening. His plan was for me to return that evening (7/13) and try to take the buff down but this time using a night scope. It was a failed attempt because they could not tell me which was the older buff and which was the younger. I left this past Friday (7/18), five days after the initial shot was taken. I would have stayed longer if I could have. If you want a day by day account, Carrie....please feel free to call me. I can message you my number via Facebook. I was told by the very people who first contacted me about what they felt to be the inappropriateness (their words) of the hunt to document the buff hunt. Which I have been doing. All I wanted was to ensure that we (my PH and I) had done EVERYTHING possible to find that buff.....even if we never did. That was all I wanted. Louie told me it was a waste of time. PHs in the know of this situation were furious because they said they would have been out there every day from the time the buff was wounded glassing for that buff. So, in my opinion, my PH did not do everything possible to help me find the wounded animal. It is your free choice to disagree with me.

    The African Agents will also confirm to you my trying to contact them to find out an answer to the legality of the hunt, they also commented on my post on my Facebook page.....and they will know all the full details of who contacted me to warn me about the hunt as of this evening when I speak to them. Everything is documented. And they will happily serve as witnesses.
     
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  2. WALKINGPREY2

    WALKINGPREY2 GOLD SUPPORTER AH Veteran

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    Carrie.....I have no issues with your friend. I adore her. I see her as a leader and an wonderful example for the up and coming women in the shooting and hunting world. I have told her this. She played no part in my hunts.....she had her own to enjoy.
     
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  3. CarrieZylka

    CarrieZylka AH Member

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    billc I completely understand where you are coming from and as one who has never hunted that particular animal I wouldn't know if it was a good way or not, my entire point is that she asked if it was legal and it was determined to be.
    The way I read it (right or wrong) was that she felt she'd been pressured into making shots she was uncomfortable making and that's what I had an issue with.

    As well as using that question as a means to disparage someone's reputation.

    I could care less what their side of the story is or whether or not they make a post to clarify, chances are in the grand scheme of things the 25 people that blacklisted them won't put a dent in their profit margin.

    And yet she stated that she had a positive experience with the two other animals she was able to kill. Does THAT mean they go BACK on your list of outfitters to hunt with?

    I'm guessing the answer is "no" and therein lies the problem.
     
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  4. ActionBob

    ActionBob GOLD SUPPORTER AH Elite

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    I've been following this thread from the beginning because I had some communication with Walkingprey2 before she left on the hunt, and because I hope to go on a Buffalo hunt sometime myself so interested in all I can learn about that and even though I don't really know her, I wished Christina a good hunt was watching for a report from her.

    There was some confusion in the beginning but I feel Christina cleared it up pretty well. She started with that basic question but a lot more questions have been brought up since then.

    So Carrie, as I followed it, when she first posted, yes she was leaving the next day. When more questions led to more information, it came out that she had 5 days of her safari left after having shot the Buff. So I saw no attempt to cloak any information.

    Carrie are you friends with Louie or the land owner/outfitter? By all means it would be great to hear directly from Louie what his side of the story is. I think we would all really like to know why Louie did not spend as much of those 5 days as possible looking for that buffalo???? As a sideline observer, that is my big question and I will try not to judge him too harshly but it would be fascinating to get his take on it. Without his direct input, people will make up their own assumptions/opinions.
     
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  5. WALKINGPREY2

    WALKINGPREY2 GOLD SUPPORTER AH Veteran

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    Carrie....no.....I would not hunt again with them. That is my personal choice based on having hunted with what I consider a better outfitter, Crusader Safaris. That is my personal opinion to which I am entitled to. Please take time to understand what AH is about. You can easily read reviews on a multitude of products and services out there in the world. AH gives those who are planning a safari hunt to hear reviews and the experiences of others regarding their hunts with various outfitters. This is no different than if someone contacted me as a reference for Starr & Bodill. I am sure the outfitter can easily have those who have hunted with them and had nothing but positive things to say about them write up their own reviews. That is what this site is about.
     
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  6. WALKINGPREY2

    WALKINGPREY2 GOLD SUPPORTER AH Veteran

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    And I would gladly welcome Louie's comments. I too want to understand why he would not take me back out besides it being a waste of time in his mind. We did other activities throughout the days.....but I made it clear it was not where I wanted to be. I was there to hunt. Other outfitters hunt in such terrain. It would not stop them from doing everything in their power to find that buff.
     
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  7. CarrieZylka

    CarrieZylka AH Member

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    Never said you weren't.
     
  8. CarrieZylka

    CarrieZylka AH Member

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    Bob - no I am not friends with any of them, I am facebook friends with his daughter that is all. The completely ironic part to all of this is she isn't even the one that brought this to my attention, one of my writers did, did I follow up with her - of course, the contents of which conversation must remain private as I am not their legal agent and do not have any legal right to repeat what I was told.

    What I commented on was subjective to the post itself, not hearsay.

    I simply assumed there was no follow up search for 5 days because the animal wasn't wounded sufficiently to warrant it, I know what Cristina wrote was told to her, I wasn't there so I would have no way of knowing what was actually said or done.

    For all we know it was determined that the buffalo was injured, the next day they searched and it was determined that the animal was not as injured as first assumed. That also can happen and has happened with deer. You think you've wounded it and it shows up the next year fine and hale.

    I sent her a text stating they really need to come onto the forum and state their case as it is very one sided at the moment and we all know the "truth" is subjective. Whether they do or not is not really any of my business.

    After all - there are always three "truths" - his, hers and actual truth.
     
  9. WALKINGPREY2

    WALKINGPREY2 GOLD SUPPORTER AH Veteran

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    The points you keep making, Carrie, I have previously addressed. Please read all my comments on this post. And again.....one of the things AH is about is sharing your experiences with an outfitter. People can disagree. That is their choice. I'm sorry....but I have to leave this thread for now. Carrie....as I have said, please feel free to call me. I tried repeatedly talking to the outfitter regarding my concerns while I was there, but he refused to listen. I have also openly admitted on this public forum my own errors in this situation and have gladly paid in full for having done so. I didn't just put the outfitter out there.....I put my own failures out there. Hopefully, those who are about to experience their first hunt of a lifetime will not make the same mistakes I did.
     
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  10. ActionBob

    ActionBob GOLD SUPPORTER AH Elite

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    Carrie I think this is a Burchells Zebra issue. There is a lot of grey mixed in between the black and white!

    Within your statement is where a difference of opinion exists. And there will be a couple different camps on the issue. The way I read what you are saying is that the outfitter did nothing "illegal". That seems to be correct from a majority of the information that came forth.

    However many on this board would contend that he did do something "wrong" ethically when he pushed the hunting of the buffalo at night, with light. I made the point before and I'll make it again, I doubt there are many or even any who would condemn him for using a light to follow up an animal that was originally wounded before dark. And I wrongly assumed that was the case because my feeble mind could not even comprehend taking a first shot at an un-wounded Buffalo after dark.

    To most of us, there is a big difference between right and wrong, and legal and illegal. It is generally considered wrong to disobey the law. Yet we have laws that are wrong. An extreme example would be that before and during World War II, Hitler made a lot of laws that were wrong. And after the war, many people and in fact the German population as a whole was condemned for following those laws.

    So just because something is legal, does not make it right. If I have a cow with a broken leg, I will go out and place a well aimed shot into it's brain any time day or night, and use a flashlight if needed...
    likewise if I could safely dispatch a wounded Buffalo and needed a light to make the shot because it was dark, I would do so. However if I needed to enter the bush at night (with or without light) to follow the animal up, I would hope I would think twice and not put myself, the PH and tracker as such risk, and wait until morning. This is where human judgment needs to take over and make decision. We all make bad decisions from time to time, at least if we are out in the World doing things. But we should do our best to make corrections when we can.
     
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  11. ActionBob

    ActionBob GOLD SUPPORTER AH Elite

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    Carrie we were typing at the same time. I tried to quote you but I have not got that all figured out yet and made a mess of it.

    Thanks for clarifying.
     
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  12. CarrieZylka

    CarrieZylka AH Member

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    LOL I completely got what you were saying and completely agree. There are methods within the hunting community I absolutely do not agree with but would never actively move against because they are legal and one style of hunting that may not be for me may be the right style for someone else.

    To each his own! :)
     
  13. billc

    billc SILVER SUPPORTER AH Elite

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    well to the point of there was not enough sign to search for the animal who decide that the ph or the client who is paying for the time.They took payment for the bull as if it was going to die so a search till her time was up was in order.If they thought it was going to live and they still took payment they are a bunch of crooks and very bad PHs.

    they may have been legal they way they hunted but anyone with some common sense knows it is not the right way.A ph telling someone to do something is hard to say no to sometimes.They lost nothing as they are not out the money for the buff.

    As for the small amount of people black listing them not changing the profit margin.I am sure that is what they are thinking.Well in the new world of hunting sites and computer searches that just maybe the dummiest things I have heard anyone say.Anyone in business knows it can always come back and bite you in the ass down the road.I know neither party but can see your looking at this very one sided for sure.
     
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2014
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  14. enysse

    enysse AH Ambassador

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    I may take crap for saying this, but if that cape buffalo was very much alive and not on death doors, then she should not have to pay the whole trophy fee. Plenty of animals here in the USA take a bullet and walk away without much damage. If the cape buffalo suffered a non-lethal wound and is feeding in the alfalfa field and such...then to me, she should only pay $2000-3000 for damage and the next person instead of paying the full fee pays the rest....because obviously the animal isn't too injured.
     
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  15. otsego44

    otsego44 AH Member

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    enysse, you couldn't have said it better.
     
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  16. billc

    billc SILVER SUPPORTER AH Elite

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    Yup if they think it will live should not have paid full price.I think it was all about the money and they figured she could pay for it so lets do what ever we can to get her to take one.Thats why it was pushed even for a night hunt.They could have gave her a break on the bull even they thought is was going to die.If that ph made any profit at all it is not right.They seen $$$ and went for it.I am betting that bull is fine and they will profit twice on the bull.
     
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  17. dtarin09

    dtarin09 AH Veteran

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    The outfitter/PH noted should share additional insight so we can all learn. Walking prey sorry for your loss, but appreciate you sharing. You have a right to your opinion. Hope the outfitter/PH can bring us full round.

    Best Wishes,

    dt
     
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  18. dtarin09

    dtarin09 AH Veteran

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    Question: Still wondering why the PH suggested to hunt the buff at night with 5 days left in the hunt?
     
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  19. jeff

    jeff BRONZE SUPPORTER AH Fanatic

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    Can't imagine the buff back at the alfalfa and still with the smaller one if he had any more than a minor flesh wound!
     
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  20. BRICKBURN

    BRICKBURN SUPER MODERATOR CONTRIBUTOR GOLD BENEFACTOR AH Ambassador

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    Not one.

    On my last trip I lost my first African critter, an Impala. I sincerely hope it is my last, but I am much more realistic than that.
    I had just finished having a long discussion with the PH about drawing blood and having to pay.
    Perfectly steady shot from a sitting position at a standing Ram at maybe 150 yards.

    I had to pick my jaw up off the ground when I went up and that Ram was not there.
    One tiny little piece of meat and a little hair. No blood per se.
    We attempted some tracking, but not as far or as much as I wanted to. The tracker quit and I let it slide.
    If it were a more expensive critter and there were evidence of more damage I would have been having a much different chat about follow up.
    I paid the trophy fee and smiled with the PH as I did, as we recalled the coincidental discussion we had had.

    We both knew it was a scratch, but I wounded it and there is no certainty it would live.
    However, I know you can go kill that Impala this year. :)
     
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