Hunting and Safety where do I start?

Discussion in 'Firearms & Ammunition' started by Spudmonkey, Mar 4, 2011.

  1. Spudmonkey

    Spudmonkey New Member

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    Good day everyone.

    (Please forgive me for my bad spelling). Im from South Africa and I am in the process of getting my gun license. I am looking at buying 2 hunting guns, a shot gun and a pistol.

    I need a lot of advice as I will most probably be buying all 4 guns at the same time and I know that it is not "small change" that we are talking about here. This will be for me and my wife that I intend to get intrested in hunting too.

    I am 6'4" and 108Kg or 220bls
    My wife is 5'4" and 52Kg or 110bls

    I have gone hunting twice in my life (gezel, whaort-hog, zebra and kudoe). I have shot many birds "ginnyfel/terentaal"...

    I think I need to get my wife a .243 or a .270
    For my self I would like to get a 30.06 or a .375
    For a pistol (self protection) I would like to get a Glock
    and I would like to get a shot gun for hunting birds (Single barel).

    My main concern is availability of amon (and cost) as I would like to do a lot of "target practice" with all the guns (as a hobby).

    Could someone please help me with this delema.
     
  2. hunting

    hunting AH Enthusiast

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    Welcome Spudmonkey
    I am sure you will get a lot of info.
    You need to ask yourself a few questions before buying a new rifle. And you know how difficult it is to get a licence in SA at this moment. So when you choose make sure it is what you will need.
    But ask yourself what am i going to hunt with this rifle, What area i am going to hunt mostly.
    Each one of us will have different needs when looking at a new rifle, make sure you buy something that both you and your wife can handle the recoil off and that the ammo is not that expensive and that you can get easy.
    I am not sure where you stay but if it is in the Johannesburg area try to contact Blou Meul in Alberton they will help you any time.
    Johan
     
  3. davidarizpe

    davidarizpe AH Veteran

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    Welcome Spudmonkey,
    Remember you could allways re-sell your guns if you change your mind or find something better in the future; so be very well informed of the resell value of the guns you intend to aquire before buying.
     
  4. Spudmonkey

    Spudmonkey New Member

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    I am looking at getting a small calibre rifle for my wife (low recoil)
    Maybe a .270?

    The little hunting I have done has been with a 30.06 and it is okay. I have no problem with it… I am just thinking that if I do want to hunt buffalo (some day), maybe it would be better to start of with the .375?
    As I know I am going to spend a lot of money buying these guns, I do not want to buy the 30.06 to only find out later that the .375 was actually the better choice.

    Yes, I am in the “South” and I do know Alberton North. I most probably will end up buying from “Blou Meul” as I have heard a lot of good things about them (they have a good name).
    The problem I have is that I would like to shoot with all of the “guns” before making a choice, but I know this is not practically possible.

    So how do I make a choice on a firearm when I am not allowed to fire (test) it?


    Is there a big market for 2nd hand firearms?
     
  5. enysse

    enysse AH Ambassador

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    There is always a market for 2nd Hand Firearms, especially if they were well cared for by the previous owner.

    I thought your choices made sense, a 270 Win., 375 H&H, 12 gauge shotgun and a pistol. Those guns will fit your needs.
     
  6. Spudmonkey

    Spudmonkey New Member

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    Hi everyone and thank you for your help.

    Please forgive me if I ask a lot of questions (dumb questions).

    (( .270 Win and .375 H&H )) As I am going to do a lot of “target practice”, would it be better to get a “bolt-action” where I need to reload after each shot or do I get a rifle with a “cartridge/force feed”?
    Do I get suppressors for the rifles (to save my hearing)?
    Is it common practice to hunt with suppressors?
    Kitting the rifles out with “sissy pads” for my shoulder? (I’m planning to go through at least 100 shot a day when “practising”).
    Is it a good idea to get a proper “reloading kit” for “building” ammo?


    (( Glock )) I am not so fond of using my thumb to release the safety from a pistol. Would the Glock be a better choice or is there something I’m missing?
    I like the 9mm but I have gone on to some other sites and I have read that “they” (around the world) prefer a .375 pistol because “anything less is a toy”.
    My pistol will be for “self protection” and for this reason it makes more sense to me to have more projectiles to fire off in a “mag” (even if they are “small”) then having larger but fewer projectiles? When under pressure (with not much training) the first 3 or 5 shots are shot out (in 1 second) of “fear” in any way right? Only then do you start aiming properly? I will be taking the pistol with me (camping, fishing, hunting, hiking, motor-biking ex..) I might get caught in the rain on a hike or fall into the water when fishing… so a pistol that can take some or a lot of abuse and neglect (not on purpose) would suite me better than one that will rust at the first sight of “damp/water”.
     
  7. enysse

    enysse AH Ambassador

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    I would get a bolt action, very reliable, very accurate.

    Well suppressors, are more common in RSA, they reduce recoil and noice. I think that is up to you.

    A good recoil pad will save you a lot of extra recoil...and will lead to better shooting.

    Well you can buy shells or reload....reloading saves money if you shoot a lot.

    The 9mm is fine for what you are looking for in your needs. Accurate, fast shooter, not as much recoil....great gun for your needs.
     
  8. timbear

    timbear AH Enthusiast

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    Hi, Spudmonkey,
    I am coming in a bit late and you may already have bought your guns, but if not, I'll put in my 2 cents' worth.
    1) Shotgun: any 12 gauge will do, double barrel, pump or semi automatic. The only problem that semis have is that they tempt you to shoot too much instead of concentrating on the first shot. Often during duck opening in New Zealand have I heard 8 shots in quick succession, and rarely did they bring down a duck...
    2) Rifles: Since you are lucky enough to live in Africa (poor sods like me have to save for years to go), the choice between .30-06 and .375 H&H Magnum should not be hard. There simply are animals out there that it is not safe, ethical and, in some countries, legal to shoot with a 30-06, so the versatile .375 H&H is the logical choice. I have a CZ 550 myself, and love it! Good value-for-money, 5+1 shot capacity (as opposed to 3 or 3+1 in a lot of other rifles), great reliability, and it does not hurt that they are aesthetically pleasing as well. It is a bit on the heavy side, but by your description you are even bigger than I am, so that should not be a problem. The weight does help to soak up recoil, so it's a good thing. The recoil is actually much less severe than people think, more of a strong push than a sharp jab.
    That brings me to the question of a rifle for your wife. My wife is 163cm tall and weighs 58kg. She shoots the .375 H&H without problems, but she has been doing a bit of shotgunninng. Initially, when we chose a caliber for her to hunt NZ, she found that the .308 kicked too hard and settled on a .243 Remington 700. For Africa, that may be a little on the light side, but I would give a thought to the 7x57mm as a good allrounder. W.D.M. Bell used it to shoot a total of 1011 elephants with it, so it packs a good punch, but recoil is very manageable. Alternately the 6.5x55mm Swedish Mauser or the .270 are good choices.
    As an aside, I would consider getting a good, cheap .22, preferably an older model with a bit of weight to it so it comes close to your center fire rifles. They are usually cheap (got an old Savage for NZ$ 100.00), reliable, and ammo is cheap as chips. This will allow you to practice as much as you like without breaking the bank. Remember: shot placement is much more important then caliber. Become a good shot first, then switching to a large bore will not be difficult. Learning with a big bore from the start is expensive and can teach you very bad habits like flinching or closing your eyes when the shot breaks. There is a nice blog on this website started by Bearcat, "Learning to shoot a 375 H&H", that holds a lot of valuable information.
    A last word on the .375 H&H (I will admit I am in love with that caliber, but for good reasons): don't be afraid to use it on small game, it will do an excellent job. I have seen rabbits shot with one, and there is just a hole with enough meat left over. Shoot one with a small, high velocity bullet like a .220 Swift, and all you'll find are some pieces of pink fluff!
    3) Pistol: I like it that you think realistically about how you will react under pressure. The only way to deal with that is practice, practice, practice... Join a gun club, if you can, It has the added advantage that I haven't met a shooter yet who does not like to show off his toys, so you can get to shoot various handguns (and rifles, if the club caters for that as well) before you make your decision. The Glocks are good pistols, and 9mm ammo is relatively inexpensive, but if you choose a self defense weapon, you have to be really comfortable with it. Weight, heft, balance, how it feels in YOUR hand and performs for YOU is something no advertisement can teach.
    Anyway, I wish you all the best with your plans. Enjoy the hunting, it is a wonderful way to live!
     
  9. dharding

    dharding AH Member

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    270 and 375 as a combo is good.

    You can use the 270 for practise and for your wife. Don't try 100 rounds in a day with the 375. Your weight helps, but cowboys do cry, especially after 100 shots of 375.

    I suggest you get a 270 first, and get the competency & first license done. You're bound to start spending time in the shooting fraternety and you'll get plenty of advice. At the range you might also run into a shooter or two willing to let you try their rifles to see how it feels. People ath the range are usually a friendly bunch.

    For the handgun question...
    A Glock's slide can rust. Rather get a Smith & Wesson M&P. But thats just an opinion.
    9mm is the most popular and full-size frame guns take 17 rounds. If you havn't hit something after 17 tries...
     
  10. timbear

    timbear AH Enthusiast

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    dharding,

    Does your wife read your blogs? Ohboy, you're in deep...
     
  11. fhm3006

    fhm3006 AH Enthusiast

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    ....read this post only now - yeah - he better pray she does not !!!LOL:whip:
     
  12. Rohan

    Rohan

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    Hey Spudmonkey,

    The Glock is one of the most dependable pistols you will ever invest in, in my opinion. I have used the glock at various shooting ranges in my short life, my father left it to me before he passed away. It was a glock 26 in 9mm short,with 10 round mag +1 in chamber.Drawbacks: Once u cock it, there is a bullet in the chamber, period, no saftey catch (u can get one fitted for R1500), no hammer on the outside/firing pin enclosed at the back of the slide; it can be dangerous if for one second u are unsure of what stage your weapon is in..I suggest getting a normal two-stage pistol that has a saftey catch and hammer so that u can control the firing condition your weapon is in. I traded the Glock for a .44 special as I believe in slower and heavier bullets for self defense. Drawbacks of a revolver: only 5 or 6 shots. Anyway, find a pistol that fits your hand, and one which the recoil is bearable, though i believe that for self-defense purposes concealment and stopping power is the main focus, the rest of it you can get use to by training a lot. Just, please, in my humble opinion, dont buy a .44 ultra mag something something whatever...those bombs with 100inch barrels were made for smashing tanks and follow up shots on aircrafts! Its just "too much" for practical purposes, but every weapon has its place. Good place to check out in Pta is 'VLT Arms', maybe think of a simple FN Browning in 9mmP. Good price, very reliable, safer than a glock option. NSN in Pta Silverton is a good bet for second hand pistols and they have a shooting range.

    I say go for the .375/243 combo. .375 covers everything from small game to charging elephant when loaded accordingly, the .243 is a great all-rounder for lighter shooting trips and non-dangerous/heavy-boned game. .375 is a bit costly in terms of ammo but nothing reloading cant handle. I will not comment on the weight ratio because i dnt know about that aspect, it logically makes sense in certain cases, but one will always get used to ones own rifle. If recoil becomes bad, ask a gunsmith about recoil-reducing otions like different recoil pads and muzzle-breaks. For me its simple:the lighter the rifle the more kick, but there are other factors that render that little statement void of any meaning.

    In Witbank, 'Classic Arms" deals a lot with 2nd hand weapons from old muzzle loaders to rare Rigbys and the like. They also have a wide range of brand new weapons. Try and buy your weapons at a gunshop that has a shooting range, that way, while u ait for your weapons to clear at the SAPS, you can use it in the range of the gunshop u bought it, but at that range only and u are absolutely not allowed to take live ammo home or carry the weapon outside the shop.

    .375 great for all hunting purposes.
    .243 great for all-round hunting for non dangerous/heavy boned animals, AND excellent for sport-shooting, ammo is cheap and even better when reloaded by yourself.
    Single shot shotgun; make sure about that weight issue because to start off with there is little rifle to deal with the energy transfer, so a lot of it goes into you. Recoil can be a problem but its always managable with todays products and technologies.
    Pistol; glock is a great idea, but most other two stage traditional metal/iron make-ups are just as good, consider concealment and stopping power and how the latter two ideas affect recoil. For self-defense dont buy anything smaller than 9mm. Here in SA, if you dont want to pull your hair out,get all your paperwork in order by phning the specific Police station you will be applying for your weapons, the rules are all the same, but sometimes they get worked up about the older forms that your gunshop gave you to fill in even though they mean the same thing and some forms are not "banned" from use. Just be very patient about the application process because you may get sent to and fro for things they should have told you before hand. Lately I have been hearing about licenses coming through within three months, but generally you will wait a while. All gunsimths i have spoken to about the application process suggested i get a dedicated-shooters status, apparently it speeds up the appliication process because one can have the shooting intstution do motivations etc for you, but that remains a theory in my eyes.

    Good luck, and enjoy the future hunting trips!
     
  13. Rohan

    Rohan

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    CORRECTION: I dont mean .243 is good for heavy-boned animals, I meant that it is a good all-rounder for non-dangerous and non-heavy-boned animals, ie animals that do not have heavy bone structure. It can take most animals up to Eland with accurate shot placement and quality bullets, but its not a first choice for Eland etc and other heavy-boned animals.
     
  14. BRICKBURN

    BRICKBURN SUPER MODERATOR CONTRIBUTOR GOLD BENEFACTOR AH Ambassador

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    Johan is on the money here.

    Get a lawyer familiar with firearms licensing working on your SAP process. It will take a while to get that license (for you and your wife) , even with their help.

    Join a local Hunting Association now.
    They can help you provide reasons (valid) for you to have firearms and share that local know how on hunting too.
     

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