German Drilling help? Let's see what you know

Discussion in 'Double Rifles' started by A.Sharpe, Jul 31, 2014.

  1. A.Sharpe

    A.Sharpe AH Veteran

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2013
    Messages:
    145
    Likes Received:
    3
    My Photos:
    6
    Hunted:
    USA , including Alaska
    My wife's father left her a couple of rifles. One was a Remington .22 pump takedown in .22WRF. Anyway the other she said was a shotgun. I don't care for shot guns so I never really looked at it till yesterday. Its a drilling.
    It appears to be German made , there are no makers logo anywhere. It is a bottom lock ,bottom lever. 16ga side by side with a 9.7 X 72 on the bottom. There are 3 boxes of ammo in the case they are 9.3 X 72R . In really great shape. The ammo is badly corroded.
    Anyway here are the markings on the barrels, both barrels are marked the same.
    Shotgun- German Eagle (GE from now on) Nitro.
    Crown S , Crown W, Crown U, (2) GE and the number 16
    The rifle barrel
    Krupp-Essen, Crown G, Crown N, Crown E , Crown U ,
    and Stm. G over 13gr.
    9.7 over 72
    and the date 9/26
    With this info can anyone tell me who made it , the correct caliber, and what does all that mean?
    Thanks guys.
     
  2. ikeda

    ikeda AH Veteran

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2009
    Messages:
    129
    Likes Received:
    11
    My Photos:
    4
    Member of:
    NRA, TSRA, SCI
    Hunted:
    Namibia (3), Zimbabwe
    The various Crowns are proof marks. Unfortunately I cannot find my reference of German proofs.
    The Stem. G is the type bullet, it was proofed with, probably round nose jacketed, and the 13gr. is the bullet weight (13 grams) or ~200 grains.
    Look very carefully because the caliber markings on these guns is usually 8.7x72 not 9.7x72. The proper caliber being 9.3x72R. The 8.7 stood for a BORE diameter of 8.7mm (.343") and they had a GROOVE diameter of ~.361". I had a very similar rifle at one time and it was quite happy shooting 200gr. RN bullets intended for the 35 Remington. (.358" diameter)
    Some call these rifles a "guild" gun because they were made by various small makers and sold at moderate prices, similar to when Sears sold various "name" brand guns under it's own brand names.
    I wish I had mine back!
     
  3. A.Sharpe

    A.Sharpe AH Veteran

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2013
    Messages:
    145
    Likes Received:
    3
    My Photos:
    6
    Hunted:
    USA , including Alaska
    I found my proof mark chart and all the markings are 1st proof/2nd proof. Nitro and smokeless powder proof. ect.ect. . The 9.7 over72 is really throwing me. The ammo that is with it is 9.3 X 72. But, deffinatly 9.7mm on the barrel.
     
  4. CAustin

    CAustin AH Legend

    Joined:
    May 7, 2013
    Messages:
    2,004
    Likes Received:
    806
    My Photos:
    44
    Hunted:
    South Africa
    Sounds like a wonder discovery! You have something very nice there sir.
     
  5. A.Sharpe

    A.Sharpe AH Veteran

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2013
    Messages:
    145
    Likes Received:
    3
    My Photos:
    6
    Hunted:
    USA , including Alaska
    Thank-you. I have never been a shotgun fan. After taking time and really going over this gun. The fit and attention to detail is incredible. I may not be a shotgun fan but, I can still appreciate a finely made weapon.
    She's a keeper.
     
  6. CAustin

    CAustin AH Legend

    Joined:
    May 7, 2013
    Messages:
    2,004
    Likes Received:
    806
    My Photos:
    44
    Hunted:
    South Africa
    A Sharpe would you happen to have a photo to share of your gun?
     
  7. A.Sharpe

    A.Sharpe AH Veteran

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2013
    Messages:
    145
    Likes Received:
    3
    My Photos:
    6
    Hunted:
    USA , including Alaska
    DSC07268.JPG DSC07269.JPG DSC07270.JPG I'M going to try some pic's
    DSC07267.JPG
     
  8. Red Leg

    Red Leg SILVER SUPPORTER AH Fanatic

    Joined:
    May 19, 2009
    Messages:
    943
    Likes Received:
    410
    Location:
    Texas Hill Country
    My Photos:
    82
    Member of:
    SCI NRA DSC life memberships
    Hunted:
    Mexico, Namibia, RSA, Germany, Austria, Argentina, Canada, Mozambique
    I spent several years in Germany as a young officer, and grew to love German and Austrian combination guns. Yours is indeed a likely pre-WWI guild gun. Without being able to see the bores, it looks in good shape. It would have originally had a case-colored frame which someone has blued at some point. I would absolutely get a chamber cast before trying to touch anything off in that rifle. The 9.3x72R was a very common round and is roughly equivalent from a power and use perspective as the .38-55. HOWEVER, the proof marks indicate you may have rimmed 8mm rounds which were also very popular. It is likely not the fairly powerful 8x57R but could be the 8x57R-360 which was milder 8mm also very similar to a .38-55. Unfortunately, there are at least a half dozen other candidates - so get that chamber cast! Also, all of these older guns are chambered for 2 1/2 inch shotgun loads. Don't use standard 2 3/4 inch shells in it. You can order 2 1/2's from RST, Wesley Richards and other on line sources.
     
  9. CAustin

    CAustin AH Legend

    Joined:
    May 7, 2013
    Messages:
    2,004
    Likes Received:
    806
    My Photos:
    44
    Hunted:
    South Africa
    What a great gun! Thank you for posting pictures.
     
  10. A.Sharpe

    A.Sharpe AH Veteran

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2013
    Messages:
    145
    Likes Received:
    3
    My Photos:
    6
    Hunted:
    USA , including Alaska
    Thank-you both very much. I think I will have a chamber cast done. The 3 boxes of ammo that were with it are still full and badly corroded . The side plates are case colored , but are very dark. Almost a cold blued look. I need to clean her up good. The bores and rifling's are fantastic , no pits or scar's . Every once in a while the sun shines on a cats butt. I really like this gun. I know its not an expensive example but still nice.
    She does have the date 9/ 26 stamped into the barrels.
     
  11. Red Leg

    Red Leg SILVER SUPPORTER AH Fanatic

    Joined:
    May 19, 2009
    Messages:
    943
    Likes Received:
    410
    Location:
    Texas Hill Country
    My Photos:
    82
    Member of:
    SCI NRA DSC life memberships
    Hunted:
    Mexico, Namibia, RSA, Germany, Austria, Argentina, Canada, Mozambique
    I missed that in your first post - so an inter-war gun. Even the basic models like this one were fine rifles. One in the sort of condition yours is will typically fetch $1600 to $2100. It looks to be an under lever variant so the top lever is actually the barrel selector. It was almost certainly made in Suhl and the action looks to be JP Sauer which they sold to the trade. Let's keep our fingers crossed that it turns out to be a 9.3x72R. You can still find newly loaded ammo on the web http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/product/61944 , and it will do anything a 30-30 will. Is that a peep sight inlayed behind the tang? If so, you will surprised how accurate the rifle can be.
     
  12. A.Sharpe

    A.Sharpe AH Veteran

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2013
    Messages:
    145
    Likes Received:
    3
    My Photos:
    6
    Hunted:
    USA , including Alaska
    No peep sight. It does have a flip up express sight about half way down the barrels.
     
  13. Foxi

    Foxi AH Veteran

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2012
    Messages:
    207
    Likes Received:
    156
    Location:
    Munic -- Germany
    My Photos:
    5
    Hunted:
    Canada, USA,Austria,Turkey,Tschech Rep.,Poland,Hungary,Serbia,Denmark,Namibia and England(England is wonderful) Romania,Zambia,Zimbabwe
    a wonderful old gun
    The Drilling was very popular, almost 100 years in Germany.
    Shotgun and rifle in one,in older times, it was a question of economic viability also.
    Since the 1970/80ies ,the maize extension was going so extremly high in Germany and the boars was grewing so numerous,that the hunter means, they need more fire power and have now much more repeating guns, than combinated rifles.
    A crown is normaly a proof mark for NITRO ballistic test.
    I love the mine (8x57R 16/65 shotgun )and have hunted thick boars in Turkey,blackbear in Canada and deers ,roes and boars at home.
    A gun today, more for enthusiasts than for praxis.
    "Velo dog" probably, would have the highest joy with it.

    I never heard from a 9,7 x72 .
    The 9,3x72 was created 1909/1910 only for lead bullets.And before, I think they have shot it with blackpowder.
    Be careful with a normal metal jacket bullet.The hunter here ,are using thin metal bullets,specially for the old 9,3x72 (in a old barrell).
    A fine old caliber for hunting whitetail deer in your country, with a maximum range from 100-150 m.
    And when you following a wounded boar in thick cover,in addition with slugs or buck shot, it's not the worthest choice.
    Foxi
     
  14. Russel. G. Keith

    Russel. G. Keith AH Member

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2014
    Messages:
    26
    Likes Received:
    13
    Hi A Sharp.
    A note of caution the 9.3 x 72 is a very mild cartridge in the same ball park as the 3030. I think RWS still makes ammo for it but it will be expensive.
    Cast bullets would work well as would the 270 grain Siera. the 9.3 x 72 is vastly different to the 9.3 by 74.
    Loaded with buck shot and a good hand load 9.3 x 72 it would make a fantastic pig gun.
    Have fun.
    Russel
     
  15. ScottG

    ScottG AH Enthusiast

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2014
    Messages:
    309
    Likes Received:
    110
    Great gun enjoy it.
     

Share This Page