FRANKFURT FIREARMS NEW FORMS

Discussion in 'News & Announcements' started by BRICKBURN, Feb 14, 2013.

  1. BRICKBURN

    BRICKBURN SUPER MODERATOR CONTRIBUTOR GOLD BENEFACTOR AH Ambassador

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    The information required is in my last post in my thread and I will update it as I get responses;
    http://www.africahunting.com/before-after-hunt/9899-return.html#post77385


    Suffice to say there have been some changes.
    I was provided two WORD docs, fillable.
    Nothing in English nor any instructions to properly complete it or where to find the technical terms suggested, etc.

    With the previous application I saw no mention of requiring export permits or import permits from other countries. Now they are required.
    I used me Canadian Export permits and my invitation letter for the import side.

    There is a NEW EMAIL ADDRESS to send your apps to.

    Given the general address of the reply, everybody must have received this general email.
    My favourite parts are Noted in bold.

    "Ladies and genlemen,
    please fill out the attached application completely and make use of the technical terms for weapons and ammunition according to the german weapons law (Waffengesetz).
    Send the application back to me with all the required documents (Export permit of the consigners country respectively the import permit of the importers country).
    Please send E-Mails only to the address: transfer@stadt-frankfurt.de
    E-Mails are processed according to the respective date of receipt. The processing period is approximately 4 weeks. Please do not send reminders via E-Mail or call during this period."


    Attached is a copy of the new form I was sent.
    As a fillable form in several places it does not allow for the full size of numbers for permits.
    be careful.

    I'll send the new forms to J for inclusion in the instructions in the reference section here on AH.

    I have seen some rumours about the German folks charging money for these permits. We will see.

    Being tenacious I found this version of the Weapons Act for reference:
    http://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/bundesrecht/waffg_2002/gesamt.pdf


    (I have removed the original permit application form posted here to ensure that there is no confusion)
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2013
  2. PHOENIX PHIL

    PHOENIX PHIL AH Legend

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    So I know this has been discussed before, but if my guns are checked through, do i need this permit to just leave the airport between flights?
     
  3. BRICKBURN

    BRICKBURN SUPER MODERATOR CONTRIBUTOR GOLD BENEFACTOR AH Ambassador

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    From what I understand:

    Never take possession, no permit required.

    Passport will be needed to reenter the control area or exit for that matter.
     
  4. PHOENIX PHIL

    PHOENIX PHIL AH Legend

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    Gracias BB!
     
  5. AfricaHunting.com

    AfricaHunting.com FOUNDER AH Ambassador

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    Thanks for all the information BRICKBURN! I updated AH on that...
     
  6. Zabi

    Zabi AH Senior Member

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    If you like, I could translate that for you?

    - In Germany we have a newly installed data base for legally owned weapons (of course, how could they store data about the illegal ones), and now everything gets even more complicated, without any better chance of getting the "bad weapons", but bullying the legal owners just a bit more...
    I think, the new forms are the result of that data base fuss.
     
  7. BRICKBURN

    BRICKBURN SUPER MODERATOR CONTRIBUTOR GOLD BENEFACTOR AH Ambassador

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    It appears that this trip I am bound to run into every changed form and system in every country
    I would appreciate your assistance.
    There are two columns that I do not understand in the form.

    In Section 5
    "Lfd. Nr." ???
    "Kategorie" ???

    I had no idea what to put in here so I left it blank and sent the old form with it.

    Any assistance would be greatly appreciated.
     
  8. Zabi

    Zabi AH Senior Member

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    lfd Nr., or "laufende Nummer" just means the item no. on a list (1./2./3. and so on)

    Now, "Kategorie" is a bit more complicated... apart from the weapons law there is a sort of guideline which categorizes weapons from A to D.
    I'll try to translate the descriptions, I hope to find the proper English terms.

    1. Category A (banned)
    1.1 assault weapons,
    1.2 full-auto weapons,
    1.3 disguised weapons and
    1.4 expansion-bullets (exept the wearer/owner has a special permission for sports or hunting)

    2. Category B (license obligatory)
    2.1 semi-auto handguns and short lever-action guns or rifles
    2.2 short single-shot weapons with center-fire ammunition
    2.3 short single-shot weapons with rimfire ammo and shorter than 28 cm (all-over length)
    2.4 semi-auto long weapons with more than 3 rounds capacity of chamber and magazine
    2.5 semi-auto long weapons with no more than 3 rounds capacity of chamber and changeable magazine or which can possibly be easily converted (means: with common tools) to more than 3 rounds
    2.6 long lever-action or semi-auto weapons with unrifled barrel (barrel no longer than 60cm)
    2.7 civil semi-auto weapons which look like assault-weapons

    3. Category C (subject to registration)
    3.1 long, lever-action weapons other than 2.6
    3.2 long, single-shot weapons with rifled barrel(s)
    3.3 long, semi-autos other than 2.4-2.7
    3.4 short, single-shot weapons with rimfire, longer than 28 cm overall

    4. Category D (other weapons)
    4.1 long, single-shot weapons with unrifled barrel(s)


    and this is just a small excerpt from the German world of rules and laws.... I hope I got al the technical terms right and didn't confuse you even more :)
     
  9. BRICKBURN

    BRICKBURN SUPER MODERATOR CONTRIBUTOR GOLD BENEFACTOR AH Ambassador

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    Zabi, thank you. Awesome start to my education.

    Now I know my form is going to get sent back for correction unless they are feeling gracious the day it gets processed.

    Ok I can do the item numbering now.

    I'll ask your further help.

    Your best guess which kategorie my rifles would fit into. I just don't see it in what you have described.
    Possibly it could be a language issue with the word "Lever".

    Lever Action
    View attachment 16482

    Bolt Action
    View attachment 16481


    The firearms I am taking:
    1. Bolt action rifle with an integral magazine that holds 5 bullets, plus one in chamber. .270 Win
    2. Bolt Action rifle with an integral magazine that holds 3 bullets, plus one in chamber. .300 Win Mag

    Zabi, whats your best guess? Please and thankyou.
     
  10. Zabi

    Zabi AH Senior Member

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    Hey Brickburn,
    I can't open the attachments since I am on my mobile right now, but I think I simply mixed up "lever action" and "bolt action" (in German: "Repetier-Waffe" like the K98 system or a Remington 700 and such).

    Unfortunately I am a beginner with firearms (bowhunting is so much easier).

    So your rifles both seem to match best 3.1, but I will have a closer look later on my laptop.
    In any case of doubt, you should probably sent in a photo of your weapons with those forms. Maybe someone of our weapons department is willing to help you ...

    All that is soooo typical for the German authorities... :(
     
  11. Zabi

    Zabi AH Senior Member

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    Addition: I've read the German text once more, and I see that they don't differenciate between bolt and lever, so Category C will match, I would guess.
     
  12. AfricaHunting.com

    AfricaHunting.com FOUNDER AH Ambassador

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  13. BRICKBURN

    BRICKBURN SUPER MODERATOR CONTRIBUTOR GOLD BENEFACTOR AH Ambassador

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    That is what I was thinking might be happening.
    Thank you.
     
  14. BRICKBURN

    BRICKBURN SUPER MODERATOR CONTRIBUTOR GOLD BENEFACTOR AH Ambassador

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    Looked through the interpretation and there are no categories translated.

    So I want to the legislation itself and translated and it appears Zabi is on the money.
    I am going to go with "C 3.1"

    This is the version I could find and translate.
    Weapons Act (Weapons Act)
    Weapons Act
    Issue Date: 11.10.2002



    Section 3:
    Classification of firearms or ammunition into categories A to D according to the weapons policy

    First Category A
    1.1
    War firearms of the numbers 29 and 30 of the War Weapons List (Appendix to ァ 1 section 1 of the Act on
    War Weapons Control)
    1.2
    A service of the Federal Ministry of Justice in Cooperation with juris GmbH - juris - Das Rechtsportal
    fully automatic firearms,
    1.3
    Firearms disguised as other objects,
    1.4
    Pistol and revolver ammunition with expanding projectiles and the projectiles for such ammunition, except
    those for hunting and sporting guns from people who are authorized to use these weapons.
    1.5
    armor piercing ammunition, ammunition with explosive or incendiary with tracer ammunition and sets, as well
    Projectiles for such ammunition, unless the ammunition or projectiles not of the Law on the Control captured weapons of war are.

    Second Category B
    2.1
    semi-automatic or repeating short firearms and firearms,
    2.2
    single-shot short firearms with center-fire ammunition for firing,
    2.3
    single-shot short firearms with rimfire ammunition for a total length of less than 28
    cm,
    2.4
    Semi-automatic long firearms whose magazine and chamber more than three rounds
    may
    2.5
    Semi-automatic long firearms whose magazine and chamber can not be more than three rounds
    can and its loading device is removable or where it is not certain that they are with general
    not ordinary tools, into firearms whose magazine and chamber more than three rounds
    can absorb, can be converted,
    2.6
    Repeating long guns and semi-automatic firearms with smooth-bore barrels not longer than
    60 cm,
    2.7
    civilian semi-automatic firearms that look like weapons with automatic.

    Third Category C
    3.1
    Repeating long firearms other than those referred to in section 2.6,
    3.2
    single-shot long firearms with rifled barrel / rifled barrels,

    3.3
    other semi-automatic long firearms listed as the under points 2.4 to 2.7,
    3.4
    single-shot short firearms with rimfire ammunition for, from a total length of 28 cm.

    4th Category D
    4.1
    single-shot long firearms with smooth-bore / bore barrels.
     
  15. enysse

    enysse AH Ambassador

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    Wow, this amount of paperwork is frustrating.
     
  16. Zabi

    Zabi AH Senior Member

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    Enysse,
    You should live here and try to do your annual tax declaration to the local authorities... THAT is an adventure even more than the weapons issues...
     
  17. enysse

    enysse AH Ambassador

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    My brother has been to Germany many times and he likes it...he's there on business. But all this regulation is not for me.
     
  18. BRICKBURN

    BRICKBURN SUPER MODERATOR CONTRIBUTOR GOLD BENEFACTOR AH Ambassador

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    I am going to share the entire adventure with everyone.
    If they had not changed the form this time around. It used to be one form that they had a prototype to help you complete.
    It was easy and free.
    I am sure that once this one has been in place for a while everyone will complete it in minutes and be done with it.

    Oh well, part of the game.
     
  19. enysse

    enysse AH Ambassador

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    You are probably right, I have a lack of patience on "changing things" unless it means faster and better service.
     
  20. BRICKBURN

    BRICKBURN SUPER MODERATOR CONTRIBUTOR GOLD BENEFACTOR AH Ambassador

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    Something did not feel right with the form I was given (and we all so diligently interpreted and I filled out) so I sent an email followup using BOLD capitals and I got a reply today.

    "Dear Mr B,

    if you are a hunter you have to fill up the new attached form.

    Kind regards

    Sabrina Stock
    "


    Erlaubnis nach ァ 32 Abs. 1 WaffG. zur Mitnahme von Schusswaffen/Munition in die, durch die oder aus der Bundesrepublik Deutschland (Artikel 11(2) der Richtlinie 91 / 477 / EWG; Artikel 10(2) der Richtlinie 93 / 15 / EWG)

    Permit pursuant to ァ 32 para 1 Weapons Act. Mitnahmevon for firearms / ammunition into, through or out of the Federal Republic of Germany (Article 11 (2) of Directive 91/477 / EEC, Article 10 (2) of Directive 93/15 / EEC)


    At least this one has the words I would expect in it: Firearms into and through.
    I'll get J to include the blank form here and the hunter info area, again.

    When I get a moment I will print and scan the new form and I hope, through my blind trust, that I have not misdirected someone in filling out that last form like I did. AAAAHHHHHH!!!!!

    My apologies.
     

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