Fair Chase hunts in South Africa

Discussion in 'Hunting Africa' started by MJ75, Sep 18, 2012.

  1. 35bore

    35bore AH Elite

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    Trust me I would much rather have this conversation over a couple, (okay couple dozen) cold beers, sitting in a pub here or there with you in the UK. Fact is, that is not the way it is, we have to use the net to convey our experiences and opinions. That being said you keep telling us to read the post, I have read this thing several times, and the original question on unfenced areas to hunt in SA. Several have posted that there is not. I personally don't know, but the regular outfitters and members of this forum who post on "whatever the topic of the day is" who are from SA and when it pertains to SA, I tend to believe them because they are there, every day of every year, (lucky buggers). I had a fence phobia prior to my hunt in SA, I saw the gate, then the fence when hunting Warthogs, otherwise I would have sworn I was in the middle of nowhere and that there was no fence.

    So again, if it is not what you want or the way you want to hunt, then don't. According to these guys (whom I trust, who are outfitters there) if they say there is no free range animals in SA, then take there word for it. The driver I had from the airport to our hunting area said the same thing these guys are. Unless they escape, ALL game in SA are behind a fence, that's how they keep a healthy population. That was the drive of the car, not even involved in the hunt.

    Next time I get to the UK I will let you know, we can go to the pub and get drunk, and rehash this topic, or we can beat the shit out of each other for a while, then get drunk. I don't care, just seems that this topic is dragging on. TRUST ME, I'll let you know when I am back in your country, I like to drink.
     
  2. MJ75

    MJ75 AH Senior Member

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    Trust me, I have no intention of dragging this thread on. PM me if you're in the UK. I've seen your location, believe it or not I own a couple of investment properties in Kansas City, MO. I was there last december. So maybe I'll be back there before you get here. I'll let you read the email I received from Andrew Mclaren on the subject. It's pretty intreresting.
     
  3. sestoppelman

    sestoppelman SILVER SUPPORTER AH Legend

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    And I would remind you of your last para in post 29 where you state

    "unfenced, for the purposes of fair chase". I think any reasonable person could take that to mean that in your opinion a fenced property may not be fair chase.:crazylol:
     
  4. MJ75

    MJ75 AH Senior Member

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    Aye, you took that out of context though.

    And if yiou'd read and more importantly understood CT's posts, the penny would have dropped. Fenced can be fair chase. Is that the end of this pointless banter now?
     
  5. sestoppelman

    sestoppelman SILVER SUPPORTER AH Legend

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    Dont think so. For a guy who was done posting on his own thread some time ago, you keep coming back for more! LOL!!!!
     
  6. MJ75

    MJ75 AH Senior Member

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    Ah I see, you're one of those guys that has to have the last word. I've seen those before. All yours.... lol
     
  7. owenowen

    owenowen AH Veteran

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    Sorry i had to close this chat off :)

    Conclusion -

    The the earth is "fenced" by roads , water and cities ! In SA the fences just keep the jumpers in such as impala , kudu , eland etc.. All the rest are free to move around as they wish...

    Happy hunting fellows !!
     
  8. CT Safaris

    CT Safaris AH Enthusiast

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    MJ, I think I perfectly understood the context that post 21 was written in and no, I did not miss or misunderstand post 31 as this was actually my own post and I knew exactly what I meant when I wrote it.

    If you were following and understood my posts, you would have noticed that I was never debating what is fair chase and what is not. I simply stated that "free range" and "fair chase" do not necessarily go hand-in-hand.

    I did on several occasions allude to the concepts of "free range" and "unfenced"... What I was trying to achieve by this was to ascertain what your perception of "free range" and "unfenced" is... Because knowing what your perception of "free range" and "unfenced" were would place me in a better position to accurately answer your original question - or not?

    When I first started participating in this discussion I suggested that you decide what it is that you want to hunt and then look for an Outfitter that offers hunts for these animals in the environment that you prefer to hunt them (free range / unfenced). If you were looking for a free range Red Stag hunt I guess you're not going to be looking anywhere in Africa are you? But in the same sense - if you're looking for a free range Kudu hunt, Scotland wouldn't be the best place to start looking. And the exact same principle applies to looking for a free range Springbok hunt in Limpopo... I can honestly not see how this concept is so difficult to understand.

    If I understand Jaco's point correctly, he is saying that even if you are hunting a low-fenced area, there is bound to be a high fence somewhere outside that low fenced area. (Look at block (4)) in my diagram. The next high fence may be 1 mile from the boundary of block (4) or it may be 500 miles... but at some point you will probably reach a high fence. To put things into perspective: One of the properties in the Eastern Cape where I hunt free range kudu is a sheep farm of roughly 10,000 acres of mountains and karoo shrub. The nearest high fence is (maybe) 200 miles away - probably more. Total size of unfenced area adjacent to my hunting area? Heck, I don't know. It might be hundreds of thousands of acres! So yes, if you were to leave the low fence of the hunting area and start walking in a given direction for long enough you'll probably end up seeing a high fence... You might run out of water, it might take you a few months and you might end up in another Province but yes, you will probably find a high fence somewhere...
     
  9. CT Safaris

    CT Safaris AH Enthusiast

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    Not wishing to drag this thread out any longer than necessary, but this statement is not 100% correct. The animals were here first, fences came after that... Some animals were fenced "in" by doing this and some were fenced "out". It is true that some of those that were fenced in have since jumped "out" (escaped) and there are those that were originally fenced "out" that have since jumped "in" to high-fenced areas. But not all animals found outside high fenced areas necessarily escaped from high fenced areas. They might have been there before the fences were erected.

    Interestingly; kudu that were born inside a high fenced area will usually be quite content and settle quickly when relocated to another high fenced area whereas those that were captured in an unfenced (low fenced) area and are not used to the confines of a high fenced ranch will initially try their best to get out of the high fenced area.

    Best,
     
  10. MJ75

    MJ75 AH Senior Member

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    Ah, my fault I meant post 30. Not 31!!!

    It would have been more pragmatic, quicker and easier just to ask for an opinion on what my definition of fair chase is rather than complicate the whole issue don't you think?

    But as I said, there is no universally accepted definition of these, only opinion. I did get the point Jaco was trying to make. I don't neccesarily agree with it from a practical point of view, but I understand the theory.There may well be a high fence 200 miles from your sheep farm, but it does not surround the entire sheep farm so this point is somewhat moot.
     
  11. MJ75

    MJ75 AH Senior Member

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    It's a poor argument though as some game swims and flies...... :p
     
  12. Jaco Strauss

    Jaco Strauss AH Elite

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    NEXT!
     
  13. MJ75

    MJ75 AH Senior Member

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    How about what brand of can opener to pack when hunting lion in RSA? :p
     
  14. Jaco Strauss

    Jaco Strauss AH Elite

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    Now you're just uninformed, please tell me r all men in you're part of the world issued with sanitary pads? Seeing that it's run by a woman?

    My best
     
  15. Upton O. Good

    Upton O. Good AH Veteran

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    Well said.

    My fourth trip up a kopje in a day, I didn't think it was "fair" at all...:D
     
  16. MJ75

    MJ75 AH Senior Member

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    My part of the world is run by a woman? Now Jaco, that did make me laugh out loud. Who's uninformed? ;)
     
  17. sestoppelman

    sestoppelman SILVER SUPPORTER AH Legend

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    Not me!! LOL!!:rolleyes:
     
  18. BRICKBURN

    BRICKBURN SUPER MODERATOR CONTRIBUTOR GOLD BENEFACTOR AH Ambassador

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    Thanks for the laugh you guys.
     
  19. spike.t

    spike.t GOLD SUPPORTER AH Legend

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    MJ please :praying: dont ask for any opinions about what is fair chase or the size of the area, as if it comes up again i think me and jaco will have to take to :beer: permanently, so we dont go hunting the people posting :huntingrifle::machinegun::biggrin2:
     
  20. 35bore

    35bore AH Elite

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    I'll bet with enough alcohol, we could convince ourselves that this is a GOOD idea...
     

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