Draw weight and arrow weight for Dangerous bowhunt.

Discussion in 'Bowhunting Africa' started by gasta, Apr 2, 2012.

  1. gasta

    gasta AH Member

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2011
    Messages:
    19
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    SPAIN
    Member of:
    FORO CAZANDO CON ARCO
    Hunted:
    RSA
    Hello friends,

    What recommendations you can do for different animals regarded as dangerous hunting? to prepare a set-up right for each one (power, KE, weight of the arrow, etc...)

    Thanks and greetings from Spain.
     
  2. Stretch

    Stretch AH Fanatic

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2012
    Messages:
    604
    Likes Received:
    2
    My Photos:
    15
    Hunted:
    USA , Canada, Botswana
    gasta
    Different country's in Africa require minimum draw weights and arrow weight for dangerous game.
    Here is the Africa Hunting link that may provide you with the information you need. Hunting - Hunting Africa, African Hunting Safaris, Bowhunting Africa
    You can also check with your outfitter. Some outfitters post the required minimums on their websites.
     
  3. mudslinger

    mudslinger AH Veteran

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2012
    Messages:
    116
    Likes Received:
    1
    My Photos:
    17
    Member of:
    NRA, RMEF, NAHC. LSBA
    Hunted:
    USA, New Zealand, South Africa
    My PH, who I have hunted with twice and returning with again this Sept. said that to hunt dangerous game with him in his area (I guess in the Limpopo of RSA) that all I would need is a 70# draw bow with an arrow weighing between 800 and 900 grains a a sharp 2 blade single bevel BH. Now this is his suggestions and I will tell you this, it will not be an easy treck to get an arrow in this range that is about 28" in length with an FOC over 15%, and with the spine. to handle that FOC and weight. With this scenario a spine of .240 or less is recommended. Not easy to find arrows spined under .250. If it is not posted for a certain area or region, then the PH should make a recommendation as they are the ones that live there and should know what is needed. I would be careful of getting recommendations from a PH or outfitter that is not a true bowhunter.
     
  4. BRICKBURN

    BRICKBURN SUPER MODERATOR CONTRIBUTOR GOLD BENEFACTOR AH Ambassador

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2010
    Messages:
    7,577
    Likes Received:
    414
    My Photos:
    396
    Member of:
    KZN Hunters Assoc
    Hunted:
    Namibia, South Africa, Botswana, Canada, USA, Mexico
    If you want to do some reading on the subject. Actual studies done on penetration on dangerous game with arrows look this up and read it.

    Arrow Lethality Study By Dr. Ed Ashby
    There are several parts and updates.

    In KZN Bow Hunting was illegal and this was the research done to determine minimums based on science, not how much someone loved their particular bow or arrow. It has been the basis for the formulation of many opinions and laws since.


    I can tell you this from direct experience: The research is right on the money.

    Make sure your Broadheads are one blade double sided and razor SHARP.

    I do not recall where on the WWW I found it but I am sure it is out there.
    I have it all on my computer and can email it to you. PM me.
     
  5. TOM

    TOM AH Elite

    Joined:
    May 14, 2009
    Messages:
    1,615
    Likes Received:
    9
    My Photos:
    41
    Member of:
    SCI,DSC, QDMA, QU
    Hunted:
    Africa...are there other continents to hunt?
    The reports are on tradgang for sure. I will post a link below. I would start with Alaska Bowhunting supply "grizzly stik safari" arrows, Easton fmj dangerous game or gold tip big game arrows and a single bevel broad head weighing 300 grains or more. Some are the " nanook, ashby, steel force, etc". I shot a giraffe in September with a similar combo weighing almost 1000 grains and the results were spectacular. Best of luck. Link below;

    Dr. Ashby Reports
     
  6. TOM

    TOM AH Elite

    Joined:
    May 14, 2009
    Messages:
    1,615
    Likes Received:
    9
    My Photos:
    41
    Member of:
    SCI,DSC, QDMA, QU
    Hunted:
    Africa...are there other continents to hunt?
  7. Stretch

    Stretch AH Fanatic

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2012
    Messages:
    604
    Likes Received:
    2
    My Photos:
    15
    Hunted:
    USA , Canada, Botswana

    Attached Files:

  8. Norwegianwoods

    Norwegianwoods SILVER SUPPORTER AH Elite

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2011
    Messages:
    1,131
    Likes Received:
    55
    My Photos:
    29
    Hunted:
    Norway, Sweden, England, South Africa
    Having a 31" DL makes it difficult to build high FOC heavy arrows(800 grain+). I can always make a heavy arrow and still not have spine problems, but as soon as I try to have high FOC(15%+), then I run into spine problems.
    I am not totally sure there is any point in building a 800+ grain arrow for a 70 lbs bow either.
    If the online calculators are correct, I would need to get 200 fps or higher with a 800 grain arrow to get higher Momentum than I already have with my 600 grain arrow doing 260 fps.
    I have not tested that, but my guess is that I will get about 195 fps, resulting in the same momentum, but lower KE as my 600 grain arrow.

    I guess if I should hunt DG with my 70 lbs bow, I would just use the same arrows as I use now and swap the 175 grain Xbow Trick with a 210 grain SilverFlame.
    Or maybe better still, I would get a 80-90 lbs bow and make myself some 800-1000 grain arrows:)
     
  9. BRICKBURN

    BRICKBURN SUPER MODERATOR CONTRIBUTOR GOLD BENEFACTOR AH Ambassador

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2010
    Messages:
    7,577
    Likes Received:
    414
    My Photos:
    396
    Member of:
    KZN Hunters Assoc
    Hunted:
    Namibia, South Africa, Botswana, Canada, USA, Mexico
    Those of us with long arms (same DL) do have more fun building arrows for sure.

    84 lbs with
    756 grains (over all weight) With those big broadheads sure changed the FOC calculation, but I had to throw feather fletching on to control all that weight out front!

    Well above the minimum energy calculation but I will add a few more grains for the next set.
     
  10. Stretch

    Stretch AH Fanatic

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2012
    Messages:
    604
    Likes Received:
    2
    My Photos:
    15
    Hunted:
    USA , Canada, Botswana
    I am a big fan of feather fletching. . I fletch 5" feathers right helical at 105 degrees with an arrow wrap which adds about 10 grains.
    This has easily been the best set-up for broadhead stability no matter which broadhead is selected.
     
  11. mudslinger

    mudslinger AH Veteran

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2012
    Messages:
    116
    Likes Received:
    1
    My Photos:
    17
    Member of:
    NRA, RMEF, NAHC. LSBA
    Hunted:
    USA, New Zealand, South Africa
    Not many heads could stand up to this abuse and stay together. Also along with the abuse if the lack of failure like a lot of heads have even heads that Dr. Ashby produces and has documented with some failures.
     
  12. Ole Bally

    Ole Bally AH Enthusiast

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2011
    Messages:
    487
    Likes Received:
    2
    My Photos:
    3
    Hunted:
    Zimbabwe
    Gasta, The spine of arrows on DG is not too important...the shooting should be at very close range <20m . I used ( and still have) some 1000 gr 32" long arrows I made up for my 130lb dw Tundra back in the 90's. They are made up of a 2400 (Easton) carbon shaft sleeved with a 1916 Alu shaft. They fit perfectly inside one another! We never chrono'd it but estimates were about 190 fps.! Just get the arrows flying straight and clean!
    But having hunted clients with bows a lot, the new bows have so much energy that you'll easily get away with a 700gr arrow doing 230+ fps.
    The deal is the BH. Like is said above here, 2 bladed cut to the front BH's with a 1 or 2 mm chisel tip filed in front will kill anything living on dry land!
    I used to demo my bow at bowhunt education meetings (with farmers) and shoot and arrow right through a steel 44 gallon drum of dry river sand at about 25 yards! The arrow would skip away off the ground and have to be looked for if a back stop wasn't there!
     
  13. iamyourhuckleberry

    iamyourhuckleberry AH Enthusiast

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2012
    Messages:
    134
    Likes Received:
    0
    My Photos:
    118
    Member of:
    SCI
    Hunted:
    Australia ( Northern Territory), New Zealand ( both the North and South Island), Namibia, RSA, England, Scotland, Argentina, Canada (Northwest Territories, Quebec, Alberta, Ontario), United States (WA,AZ,CO,NM,WY,NE,TX,OK,KS,SD,LA,MO,IL,KY,MI,OH,PA,NY,MD,NC,FL,AK)
    I'm in the process of building and testing a DG arrow to be used on cape buff this coming July. I'm using an Easton 2314 alum shaft with a 2115 alum shaft fitted inside the first. I was going to use 5" plastic vanes, but after reading Stretch's comment on the feathers, I may switch. I'm estimating my arrow weight to be somewhere between 950-960 grains. I killed an Australian water buff using a similar set-up tipped with an Outback Supreme FE 220 grain head (Outback 220gr Supreme fe's). This 29" combination worked wickedly well-my buff dropped within 12 yards of being arrowed-I delivered my shot from 34 yards out of an 80 pound PSE X-Force. Recently, the VPA broadheads have caught my attention (Vantage Point Archery Penetrator 2-Blade Broadheads). This coming weekend I'm getting three of the 250 grain tips to test. Results pending...
     
  14. Ole Bally

    Ole Bally AH Enthusiast

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2011
    Messages:
    487
    Likes Received:
    2
    My Photos:
    3
    Hunted:
    Zimbabwe
    Any reason you'd prefer this route to using a 2400 carbon with a 1916 sleeve? It makes for a thinner dia arrow...less drag as the broadhead base is bigger than the dia of the shaft then!....just asking!
    If it worked before that's great! But Why would you be building and testing then?
     
  15. BRICKBURN

    BRICKBURN SUPER MODERATOR CONTRIBUTOR GOLD BENEFACTOR AH Ambassador

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2010
    Messages:
    7,577
    Likes Received:
    414
    My Photos:
    396
    Member of:
    KZN Hunters Assoc
    Hunted:
    Namibia, South Africa, Botswana, Canada, USA, Mexico
    As long as it is not going to be raining during your hunt I would try those arrows with feathers for sure. It made a huge difference in stability for me.
     
  16. mudslinger

    mudslinger AH Veteran

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2012
    Messages:
    116
    Likes Received:
    1
    My Photos:
    17
    Member of:
    NRA, RMEF, NAHC. LSBA
    Hunted:
    USA, New Zealand, South Africa
    There are enough treatments on the market for feather fletching that will keep them dry during a rain. Also, I saw where someone talked to VPA about purchasing some of the single bevel heads which eveidently only in the test stage and they told the individual they had to order 300 to get them. Not sure if this is the norm, but I am also interested in the head for a Cape hunt in 2014. If i found out anything about ordering or purchasing this head, I will let everyone know.
     
  17. BRICKBURN

    BRICKBURN SUPER MODERATOR CONTRIBUTOR GOLD BENEFACTOR AH Ambassador

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2010
    Messages:
    7,577
    Likes Received:
    414
    My Photos:
    396
    Member of:
    KZN Hunters Assoc
    Hunted:
    Namibia, South Africa, Botswana, Canada, USA, Mexico
    I just hate more stinky stuff around. So I avoided it.
    It never rains in Limpopo or Cape Town right! :)
     
  18. Wolverine67

    Wolverine67 AH Fanatic

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2011
    Messages:
    541
    Likes Received:
    0
    My Photos:
    21
    Member of:
    SCI, SHAC, RW Guild
    Hunted:
    Norway, Sweden, Poland, South Africa
  19. mudslinger

    mudslinger AH Veteran

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2012
    Messages:
    116
    Likes Received:
    1
    My Photos:
    17
    Member of:
    NRA, RMEF, NAHC. LSBA
    Hunted:
    USA, New Zealand, South Africa
    I have a powder made by Bohning that is called Feather-Dri that has absolutely no smell and works well. You can take a feather, dip it and coat it very lightly with this powder and then take the feather and submerge it in a glass of water, turn it loose and it will come flying out of the cup. I used it back when I shot feathers. Not sure if Bohning still makes it or not.

    I know the GK's are good heads, but I have not seenthe Werewold heads. I will have to look into them. The one thing I was wanting to get away from was the failure at the end of the BH and the start of the ferrule into the threads. This is where the VPA DG heads looked like they had everyone beat. When you are talking about the possibility of a BH failure on a Cape with the trophy fee they carry, I want to eleiminate as many possible problems that may come up, within reason.
     
  20. iamyourhuckleberry

    iamyourhuckleberry AH Enthusiast

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2012
    Messages:
    134
    Likes Received:
    0
    My Photos:
    118
    Member of:
    SCI
    Hunted:
    Australia ( Northern Territory), New Zealand ( both the North and South Island), Namibia, RSA, England, Scotland, Argentina, Canada (Northwest Territories, Quebec, Alberta, Ontario), United States (WA,AZ,CO,NM,WY,NE,TX,OK,KS,SD,LA,MO,IL,KY,MI,OH,PA,NY,MD,NC,FL,AK)
    Two dozen good reasons... I have both the 2314s and the 2115s on hand already. The 2115s were given to me. I'm testing because the 2115s are a better fit to the carbon arrows I inserted for the water buff previously. My total arrow weight increased by nearly 100 grains. I believe this will give me a little more momentum, a good thing since the bone structure of a cape is bigger than a water buff. I do see your point though and will give it consideration.

    Mudslinger,

    I am purchasing my heads from Rocky Mountian Speciality Gear. They have them in stock for the same price as these:
    Broadheads

    They're not listed in RMSG's website, but they do have them in stock.
     

Share This Page