doubts about the sale of rhino horns and ivory

Discussion in 'Hunting Africa' started by BETO, Dec 19, 2010.

  1. BETO

    BETO AH Senior Member

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    doubts about the sale of rhino horns and ivory


    Dear friends,

    I have a doubt, those days I met a hunter who was hunted in Botswana and a white rhinoceros, he told me that after the hunt he sold rhino horn for a buyer in eastern Botswana yourself, is this normal?

    with ivories that happens too?

    I found very strange, since I did not know this kind of trade of animal parts.

    Thanks, and sorry for my bad english.

    BETO


    portugues;

    duvida sobre venda de chifres de rino e marfins


    caros amigos,

    tenho uma duvida, esses dias encontrei um caçador que esteve em botswana e caçou um rinoceronte branco, ele me disse que apos a caçada ele vendeu o chifre do rinoceronte para um comprador oriental em botswana mesmo, isso é normal?

    com marfins isso acontece tambem?

    eu achei bem extranho, já que não sabia desse tipo de comercio com partes de animais.

    obrigado, e desculpem meu pessimo ingles.

    BETO
     
  2. Spiral Horn Safaris

    Spiral Horn Safaris SPONSOR AH Fanatic

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    Hi Beto

    That sounds very dodgy I would stay away from the whole matter completely the words Rhino Horn will defiantly attract a lot of bad attention!

    It is really not nomal!

    Best Regards
    Louis van Bergen
     
  3. BETO

    BETO AH Senior Member

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    the guy who told me this said it sold to a Vietnamese, a value too high, I can not remember how much was the value, but I think something close to 30,000.

    several hunting friends heard this conversation and we do not know if this is cool, in my opinion I found very strange.

    such as horns and ivory material has commercial value?
     
  4. danilocf

    danilocf AH Member

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    First ask the name of the PH he hunted with, and then you will probably find out the truth.
     
  5. Big5

    Big5 AH Enthusiast

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    BETO. . . the following is a recent article from the 'Christian Science Monitor' publication;


    Christian Science Monitor
    Article by By Ian Evans, Correspondent / October 21, 2010


    South African and Vietnamese wildlife officials meet to stem rhino horn trade

    After growing international pressure, South African officials are meeting their Vietnamese counterparts in Hanoi this week to find solutions to stemming the illegal trade in rhino horns.

    Wildlife officials from South Africa and Vietnam have held their first face-to-face meetings in Hanoi aimed at halting the trade in rhino horns, which has seen 232 animals slaughtered this year.

    Conservationists say the Asian country (Vietnam) is the biggest customer for poached horns stripped from the dead rhinos, which some Vietnamese believe can cure cancer.

    Rhino horn, which can fetch up to $4,000 a pound on the black market, is used as a handle for daggers in some countries, and used throughout parts of Asia as medicine and as an aphrodisiac.

    Poor customs regulations and a lack of political will have been blamed for allowing the illegal trade to flourish, which has led to a public outcry in South Africa. Pictures of de-horned rhinos have become a common sight in the media.

    After growing international pressure, a five-strong government party from South Africa made up of police, national park and environment department officials is holding four days of talks with their Vietnamese counterparts to find solutions to the problem. Although no one expects the meetings to lead to an immediate drop in the smuggling, most observers agree that it's an important first step toward stemming the trade.

    “The Vietnamese agreeing to talks and acknowledging there is a problem with poaching is a significant first step," says Dr. Richard Thomas from the wildlife trade monitoring network Traffic, which organized the trip. "There is a lot of evidence to say the horns are being smuggled to Vietnam so it’s important that there is joint co-operation between the governments.”

    So far this year, 232 rhinos have been killed in South Africa for their horns, compared to 122 last year and 81 the year before.

    “Poaching has become extremely sophisticated," says Mr. Thomas. "Poachers can dart a rhino, chainsaw off its horn, and helicopter it off in a matter of minutes. It can end up on the Asian market within 30 hours.”

    The Asian rhino population in Vietnam has been seriously depleted, partly because of poaching says Traffic. But there is still a healthy black and white rhino population in Africa with South Africa holding an estimated 90 percent of the 21,500 total.

    Conservationists point to Kenya where the rhino population collapsed from 20,000 in 1970 to around 600 now, as a worst case scenario unless poaching is curbed.

    The rhino horn trade is being driven by crime syndicates which can only be tackled by close government cooperation," says Faan Coetzee, a rhino conservation expert at the Endangered Wildlife Trust in South Africa, has helped co-ordinate the top level meetings. "They earn a lot of money out of horn smuggling so it’s them you need to tackle, not the foot soldiers on the ground.”

    "The Vietnamese seem serious about dealing with illegally poached ivory," says Mr. Coetzee. "We want to see a greater commitment to stopping the horns from getting into the country and laws against possession of [rhino horn]. Once it gets into the country, it just slips away and it’s difficult to trace. There needs to be better intelligence between our police and theirs and regular contact between governments. Having the first face-to-face meetings is important because once you’ve made contact and got a name, you develop a relationship."

    Thomas, however, cautions that the talks are only an initial move toward a solution.

    “Traffic isn’t anticipating any quick-fix overnight solutions, but we’re very pleased that direct dialogue between the two countries on the rhino horn poaching issue has been opened," he says. "This is an important step in building a long-term relationship between the two nations that will ultimately lead to a successful curtailing of the poaching crisis.”
     
  6. BETO

    BETO AH Senior Member

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    Thanks friends,

    the hunter who told me this story is not an example of ethics, and those people who want to take advantage at all, the hunt took place in Botswana, more often heard stories of illegal hunting of lions in the Etosha Park with the use of cars and headlights at night.

    I generally do not talk with such people, I think more interesting to listen to know what is happening.

    I dread that kind of person.

    good health and a happy new year to you all.

    BETO
     
  7. parklandgroupoh

    parklandgroupoh

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    It's really sad to see how trade in these items have still been going on. I guess they know that there still is a market out there for people interested in the purchase of these despite all the warnings and the wake up calls about these magnificent animals. There are many animals that are allowed for hunting so one does not have to go all the way to hunt "illegal or endangered" ones.
     
  8. Big5

    Big5 AH Enthusiast

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    parklandgroupoh . . . Perhaps I am missing the intent of your post, but I believe you may be missing the greater point of the matter. It is not about the ‘hunting’ of white rhino or elephant, because that is not illegal. However, there is a demand for products of those animals which leads to ‘poaching’ (illegal hunting) and a black market sales demand.

    A demand for animal parts is not exclusive to the rhino and elephant. There is a black market demand for various animal parts from both animals that are legal to hunt and from those which are illegal to hunt. Some of those parts would include the gall bladder from bears, the hide from spotted cats such as leopards, bone from tigers, etc.

    Again, I beleive the greater matter is not about ‘hunting’. It is about ending a demand for animal parts which leads to a ‘black market’ trade and the subsequent ‘poaching’ of animals to fill that demand.
     
  9. Calhoun

    Calhoun AH Enthusiast

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    It's a start! Atleast the governments are talking & showing a concern over animal parts.
    In my opinion if this illegal sales of animal parts & the senseless killing of endangered animals is going to end it is up to the governments of these Asian countries to educate their people about real medicine cures instead of witch craft & voodoo practices that these people believe in! They have to spread the message about the senseless killing & let these people know about the very possible extinction of these magnificent animals! Major league prison sentences or even death sentences are the only way to prevent more people from getting into the illegal trade game!
     

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