Double rifle advice

[Amon458]

What are you guys opinion on buy a sxs shotgun that has been converted to a double rifle?

 

[CAustin]

Doesn't sound like something I would want to do!

 

[Velo Dog]

Amon458,

There is a book for sale out there somewhere in Cyber Space regarding this very subject.

It might be called "Building Double Rifles From Shotgun Actions" or words similar to those.

The shotgun action selected needs to be properly stout (best quality steel and proper heat treating, such as some of the German, Austrian and Belgian actions can be, plus three bites are desirable - such as 2 under lugs and Greener crossbolt).

The Merkel series of SxS rifles appear to be built on one of their very strong shotgun actions.

Butch Searcy used to build them on the Browning BSS Model, SxS shotgun actions, when he first began making double rifles.

Another thing that is critical for safety is that they probably should not be chambered for large capacity/small bore high pressure cartridges, such as the 7 MM Remington Magnum, etc (never ceases to amaze me the wacky ideas we humans come up with for rifle projects).

Last but not least, it needs to have been built by some reputable Gunsmith who has had some schooling on this subject, mostly for your safety but also, to be reasonably sure it was regulated properly.

For my two pennies worth, if I was simply gagging for a double rifle but, could not afford a Chapuis, Merkel, Verney-Carron, etc., I would rather buy a stoutly made 12 gauge double barreled shotgun, then I'd have a proper Gunsmith cut off the chokes, (leaving me with about 25 to 26" barrels), and then express sights installed.

My experience with just such a weapon, except that it only had a large front bead, and no proper express sights, was perhaps beginner's luck but it had no regulation problems, putting all slugs into about 6" at 50 yards, not bad for a double barreled smooth bore IMO (lost it when I flipped my canoe in a fast river, so now it sleeps with the fishes).

For under about $4,000.US, I'd have a fine close range double with Brenneke slugs, not to mention handy grouse/quail gun in the deal - a proverbial "Paradox Gun" aka "Ball & Shot Gun", once very popular with explorers, prospectors and adventurers of Old Africa.

If I ever get around to having another "ball & Shot Gun" made for me, I'd like to use a Pre-War JP Sauer SxS, because of the above described strength plus, they usually are found with oval cheek piece stock which I think adds a touch of class to any double rifle.

Pre-War shotguns with semi-pistol grip almost always fit me like a glove and that is very important with any fast handling firearm.

Cheers,
Velo Dog.

 

[Steve Steyr]

That's a very vague way of putting a question; kind of like saying "I'm looking at a car, what do you guys think of it?"
A lot of double rifles use a double shotgun as the basic chassis. They make the monoblocks (the chamber area), then insert and bond the barrels to the inside. Lots of skillful work required and this is where the wheat gets separated from the chaff, so to speak.
So, to answer, could be good, could be bad depending on the skill of the maker and finally the regulator.
I believe Clark Custom Guns of Louisiana is making double rifles using CZ SXS shotguns as a base. I haven't seen any reviews of them but Clark's has had a great reputation in the world of competition 1911's for many decades. It would be nice to see some of their work reviewed.

 

[Amon458]

Sorry about the vagueness it is a hawes matador II 10ga that was converted to a 500NE it looks to be in good shape as there is no damage that i could see. It is under $4000 and if there is anything i should look for I would appreciate it.

 

[bassasdaindia]

I once asked my gunsmith this question , he answered me with :

the work and time that is required , you are better off buying a double rifle .

 

[Amon458]

It is already converted I was just wondering if anyone had any experience with converted shotguns to see if it was worth buying.

 

[Velo Dog]

Personally, I would be nervous as a cat to fir a .500 NE built on a Spanish shotgun action.

As .500 Nitro doubles go, I'd want it made by a proper maker, not Joe Bob's Gun & Pawn in Peduncle Illinois, etc.

I do however like Spanish shotguns because they are very affordable and "Spanish Best" shotguns are a very good buy for a lower price than comparable shotguns from other countries.

Plus, many of them with semi-pistol grip seem to fit me well but, in .500 NE, I'd be nervous about that much recoil busting loose in my face if the shotgun metallurgy failed.

Incidentally, my very best good friend here, is thinking about building a .577 BP Express on a Spanish 10 bore double that he bought for only a few hundred US dollars.

It looks sturdy enough to handle a black powder cartridge like this but even so, if he actually builds it, I might try it after he has fired it a couple hundred times with no issues.

 

[Saul]

I would be very nervous about using any shotgun that has been mmodified to fire a big bore cartridge. Plus, if you found a good sxs shotgun that was strong enough to handle such a conversion, it is probably too nice of a shotgun to butcher. I would keep the sxs for winghshooting and then buy a real double rifle.

 

[sierraone]

Amon458,

There is a book for sale out there somewhere in Cyber Space regarding this very subject.

It might be called "Building Double Rifles From Shotgun Actions" or words similar to those.

The shotgun action selected needs to be properly stout (best quality steel and proper heat treating, such as some of the German, Austrian and Belgian actions can be, plus three bites are desirable - such as 2 under lugs and Greener crossbolt).

The Merkel series of SxS rifles appear to be built on one of their very strong shotgun actions.

Butch Searcy used to build them on the Browning BSS Model, SxS shotgun actions, when he first began making double rifles.

Another thing that is critical for safety is that they probably should not be chambered for large capacity/small bore high pressure cartridges, such as the 7 MM Remington Magnum, etc (never ceases to amaze me the wacky ideas we humans come up with for rifle projects).

Last but not least, it needs to have been built by some reputable Gunsmith who has had some schooling on this subject, mostly for your safety but also, to be reasonably sure it was regulated properly.

For my two pennies worth, if I was simply gagging for a double rifle but, could not afford a Chapuis, Merkel, Verney-Carron, etc., I would rather buy a stoutly made 12 gauge double barreled shotgun, then I'd have a proper Gunsmith cut off the chokes, (leaving me with about 25 to 26" barrels), and then express sights installed.

My experience with just such a weapon, except that it only had a large front bead, and no proper express sights, was perhaps beginner's luck but it had no regulation problems, putting all slugs into about 6" at 50 yards, not bad for a double barreled smooth bore IMO (lost it when I flipped my canoe in a fast river, so now it sleeps with the fishes).

For under about $4,000.US, I'd have a fine close range double with Brenneke slugs, not to mention handy grouse/quail gun in the deal - a proverbial "Paradox Gun" aka "Ball & Shot Gun", once very popular with explorers, prospectors and adventurers of Old Africa.

If I ever get around to having another "ball & Shot Gun" made for me, I'd like to use a Pre-War JP Sauer SxS, because of the above described strength plus, they usually are found with oval cheek piece stock which I think adds a touch of class to any double rifle.

Pre-War shotguns with semi-pistol grip almost always fit me like a glove and that is very important with any fast handling firearm.

Cheers,
Velo Dog.

Why am I not surprised that you would have owned such a gun/rifle! Although I have to admit I have heard of them previously, just have never seen one. You seem to have many interesting storied to tell. Keep it up!

 

[AkMike]

If it were done properly I wouldn't hesitate a bit.

I have a 450 NE that was converted from a JP Sauer 12 ga and it's every bit as good of a shooter as my Searcy or the others. It's had way over a thousand rounds down the pipes w/o signs of problems.


BUT I don't know about the strength of a Spanish SG. IIRC Hawes was merely the importer not the maker.

 

[AZDAVE]

Here is a link to the book. http://www.bundukipublishing.com/doublerifle.htm

I have the book and read it several times.

When my machining skills get to the point I am confident in ability to build I have a 16ga that will become a 40/50 straight sharps double. Just because.