DNA test on hunting trophy

Discussion in 'Taxidermy' started by Bart, Feb 3, 2013.

  1. Bobpuckett

    Bobpuckett GOLD SUPPORTER AH Legend

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    even the skull isn't done right to much oil still in the bone I don't think US F&W would have even let it in the country.
  2. Wolverine67

    Wolverine67 AH Fanatic

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    I am pretty sure a roicat are so small that a freezer would cool it down fast enough to save the skin. But the trick are to conserve the skin fast enough when it thaws, because its very likely to be damaged in that prosess.
    Regards the gemsbok scull, its very likely to fall apart when boiled, but its normally possible to glue it together again. The replacement scull you got are crap work, just like the cat. I am truly sorry for you.
  3. Bobpuckett

    Bobpuckett GOLD SUPPORTER AH Legend

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    I agree with Trond you got the animal in the freezer soon enough that the pelt should have been fine, As someone who trapped in Alaska for many years one of the key things that I liked about trapping there was that small animal caught in trap would expire very quickly and in the below freezing temp they would freeze and preserve the pelt and if weather got to bad that you couldn't get out to get them right away you had nothing to worry about except other animals I never lost one pelt to freezing. and by small I mean lynx and smaller
  4. Bart

    Bart AH Senior Member

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    I have also done it a lot, put small animals into the freezer and it was never a problem. But the taxidermist is now trying to manoever the discussion into bad field preparation and so it will be all my own fault. The taxidermists who have seen the rooikat all say that it is a very old trophee (at least 10 years old, maybe 30). I'll seek some expert advice on this and will report back to the forum.
  5. KMG Hunting Safaris

    KMG Hunting Safaris SPONSOR AH Elite

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    Bart,
    Did you get a hold oh Martin?
    Second of all, what I have found is that you really have to try your best to create hair slip on an animal. Touch wood, we have never had a single case. I believe, and its only my opinion, that hair slip occurs when a number of factors are present. Not just something as simple as cooling the animal down as quickly as possible, which I guess is rule #1. We have hunted many animals during summer months, and the best we can do is cape the animals as quickly as possible and not a single case thus far.
    When I was a youngster, I shot my first blue wildebeest. Without knowing about trophy preparation, the animal was skinned for a rug. Off I went home with the flat-skin, climbed to the roof with the skin and a table salt shaker. I laid the skin open with the hair side down. I "salted" the skin, but how much salt can come from a "shaker", right? That hide was on top of the roof in sun, rain and whatever for about 7 months. I then found out that you had to tan it, to get it soft. Got it taken to the tannery, who told me that the skin was in bad shape. Who could have guessed. That skin has now been with me for 17 years, without a single patch of hair slip. It still lies on my porch to this day.
  6. Norwegianwoods

    Norwegianwoods SILVER SUPPORTER AH Elite

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    You get hair slippage because of bacteria growth or cutting/scraping the skin to thin when tanning it.
    The bacteria growth is the reason why you salt the skins if you don't freeze them before you send them off for tanning.

    No way you would get enough bacteria growth on the inside of the skin of a Lynx during the time till it got frozen inside the skin in a freezer.
    My guess is that the taxidermist didn't skin the Lynx and started the tanning process as soon as it started to thaw.
    Something that has been frozen will get very quick bacteria growth in warm conditions when it has thawed.
  7. Martin

    Martin AH Senior Member

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    Hi folks,
    before I say a word about the caracal, I have to see it directly, that will happen within the next days. Itï½´s still open!

    But about the Gemsbuck I have to tell my experience, in 95 % of headshots the skull is destroyed - and gemsbuck skull bone structure is not that hard as eland or kudu! So MAYBE the taxidermist wanted indeed to do you a favour and replace the skull. My way of working would have been to tell the client that it is destroyed, what chance there is to repair it and let the client decide.

    I think there is a big big difference if you freeze an animal that size in southern africa or in europe/america. Here in europe I do it very often if there is no chance or time to skin it directly. But our climate is different. When defreezing, nothing happens normally. Only in hot summertime I have to start skinning while it is defreezing, sometimes difficult. If you wait too long it becomes "hot" on the outside while in it it is still frozen. And that is what could happen in africa. I highly recommend skinning as fast as possible. And normally PHï½´s know exactly what to do, and normally they have their skinners.

    Weï½´ll see about the caracal...
  8. Norwegianwoods

    Norwegianwoods SILVER SUPPORTER AH Elite

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    My guess Martin, is that the taxidermist has no or very little experience with frozen animals.
  9. Martin

    Martin AH Senior Member

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    The first step of tanning a skin is to put it into acid solution, that stopps all bacteria growing! So hair slippage starts before that. The problem is often you canï½´t see it before tanning. Unfortunately I had this before on african skins. They came in in optical good condition, but while tanning the desaster came quick.
    As I stated before:
    skin the animal as fast as possible! I recommend to wash it first with cold water, then put it into salt solution (cold water and so much salt that after mixing salt cristals are still visible, so you can be sure that enough salt is in). That makes sure that salt gets everywhere ( it often happens that if you lay it just after skinning on the ground the skins gets small folds and dry salt canï½´t go through). Leave it there for a few hours and then dry salt it. Use just "normal" salt. No need to do it with "special taxidermists or tanning salt". Let the skin dry slowly in a shadow place, good if you change the salt again after 1 or two days, fold it before totally dry, and donï½´t forget to put a tag on ;-)
  10. Martin

    Martin AH Senior Member

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    That could be the reason... Itï½´s all about understanding taxidermy, tanning, dealing with skins...
  11. EDD

    EDD AH Veteran

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    Bart, on a lighter side.....
    Maybe you can sell that rooikat trophy after all this is done to a movie company so it can be used in a HORROR film....?:wink::nailbiter:
    You should have seen my son's face when he saw it....
  12. Bart

    Bart AH Senior Member

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    You should have seen my face ;)
  13. KMG Hunting Safaris

    KMG Hunting Safaris SPONSOR AH Elite

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    LOL, sorry, I know its a sensitive subject, but that response was priceless.
  14. spike.t

    spike.t GOLD SUPPORTER AH Legend

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    Bart sorry to hear about this and i hope you get to the bottom of it, however you state that everybody shoots their animals between the eyes in SA, i would say the reason for this is they are mostly hunting for meat and use the head and neck shots so there is minimum wastage of meat. it should be the last resort when going for a trophy as you end up with the problems you have experienced. :)
  15. KMG Hunting Safaris

    KMG Hunting Safaris SPONSOR AH Elite

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  16. Bart

    Bart AH Senior Member

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    After hunting in the same place lots of times and after about 50 succes shots, i got permission for head shots if i judged that it was possible and if i was confident i would not miss. This one was shot from a sandbag with a totally stable gun, home made ammunition which i trust and a perfectly sighted in rifle in wind stil conditions. There was no other way to shoot it. I totally agree 100 % that head shots should not be used and maybe i should not have mentioned it on the forum, cause maybe some readers get wrong ideas about those shots. Apologies
  17. spike.t

    spike.t GOLD SUPPORTER AH Legend

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    no need to apologise bart, as i said if its the last resort then you have to decide if thats the shot to take, you just have to realise that there will be damage....;)
  18. mikejones

    mikejones AH Member

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    lets us know what the outcome will be, sounds like could cost a lot but worth it ! cheers
  19. Bobpuckett

    Bobpuckett GOLD SUPPORTER AH Legend

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    I believe this is the Picture BRICKBURN has been trying to load. Tell us about it Wayne

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  20. KMG Hunting Safaris

    KMG Hunting Safaris SPONSOR AH Elite

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    Bliksem!

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