Can Someone Put My Mind At Ease?

[sestoppelman]

An '06 should be able to easily break 3K with a 150 gr bullet. A .270 or a .280 can so it should be easy for the Govt. Your load is usually considered near max for the 180 gr bullet. You could up the charge with the 150. Or as others mention, try another powder. I have had great luck with R-19 and 22 both at least for accuracy, though have not chronoed most of those loads. Its also possible that your old M70 has some bore wear and this can lead to lower pressure, thus less velocity. Reminds me of my dads .284 Win years ago when I got a chronograph. I ran some of his "hot" loads over it and they were about 200 fps less than he expected!

 

[Clayton]

Thanks for the thoughts. LOL I have a 40X .22-250 with a throat like a Giraffe!

 

[Ray B]

About 30 years ago, before I had a chronograph I had access to 8 30-06 rifles of various makes and models. One of the tests that I ran was to develop a load to noticeable pressure signs (such as discussed by Ken Waters) with the idea of seeing which rifle would operate at the highest load while developing approximately the same pressure. I didn't retain the details, but I recall that a cartridges fired in the M70 Win that I had were loaded at the top end of the loads and a JC Higgins FN was at the low end. the high-low loads varied by 2 grains of IMR 4350 (180 gr bullet). My conclusion was that the chamber in the M70 was cut slightly larger than the others- and this was borne out by the fired cases- those fired in the FN would chamber in the M70 while those from the M70 wouldn't chamber in the other rifles.
About 20 years ago I chronographed some loads in a 30-06 M70 24" barrel. 180 gr bullet, 57 gr H4350 2799fps 15' from Muzzle. Extreme spread 39fps, Avg Dev 11 fps.; The 150 had a great deal more variation (and also larger groups) and since I used the 180s in the 06 and saved the 150s for a 308, I didn't test too extensively, however my results were consistent with this ten shot sequence: 61 gr H4350 2949 fps 15' from muzzle, Extreme Spread 82fps, avg dev 21 fps.
I would like to have had a chronograph back about 1983 when I tested those various 06s, but I suspect the reason the velocity is down for that charge is a combination of a chamber cut to the upper end of the tolerances or a leade also at the upper end, or both.
If you have access to a micrometer you might check some cases for web expansion and other signs of pressure- it may be that the load develops less than desired pressure in your rifle.

 

[edward]

All very good food for thought. And yeah, the topic is a good one for lots of group discussion.

Every rifle I've owned from .223s up to a .338 Win Mag & a .375 H&H have all produced the tightest groups with 1 - 3 gr BELOW max charges. LOL the .375 didn't see much time on the bench. I'm not into self-abuse.

I'm not planning to change the load. It works. I just kept wondering about that velocity. And who knows, maybe a different chronograph would give a significantly different result. But then that would be like owning two watches.

clayton,when you hit your animal in the right place,it wont notice any difference in the velocity.

 

[sgt_zim]

Model 70 Winchester, (1952 Vintage) .30-06
150 gr Nosler Partition
58.00 gr IMR-4350
CCI Lg Rifle Primer
Win Brass

This load has been in use for I have no idea how many years. I came to it because consistently it produces my best groups (1.038 MOA) with that bullet. I've tried powders from IMR-3031 to Varget and H-4831 and haven't found anything better. It has performed nothing but one-shot kills on Whitetail and Mule Deer at ranges from less than 10 yds to just over 200 yds. The 200 yd one is the only one that ran any distance and he was dead and just didn't know it. Both lungs and heart shredded.

A few years back I had the chance to chronograph the load. Results were an average of 2,772 fps with an E/S of 19 and an S/D of 9.7. I was kind of surprised thinking velocity should be a little closer to 2,900 give or take. I'm not planning to change anything, but this keeps nagging on me and making me wonder.

Is anyone else shooting this load or one close to it and has chronographed data they would be willing to share? I would appreciate your thoughts and comments.

I wouldn't try to fix what works, and here's why.

assuming a 200 yard zero, you should be ~8.4" low at 300 yds. Bump the MV up to 2900, you will gain yourself a whole 0.7" - 0.8" of "flatness," give or take, at ~7.6" at 300 yards.

The only thing you're likely to get out of 2900 fps is NP shedding its nose entirely on those 10 yard shots.

If you want to change your recipe, I'd go to 165 or even 180 gr NP or NAB.

 

[sestoppelman]

You guys know this a 5 year old thread right?

 

[Chukar]

You guys know this a 5 year old thread right?

Shshhh. Don't catch my affliction...

 

[Bullthrower338]

Clayton passed away a little better than two years ago. His 1952 Winchester and the long throated 40X are in my safe now, a gift from a dear friend. He knew he wouldn’t see Africa but he longed for it. I did the best I could and carried that Winchester over and hunted with it. I’m sure he was smiling.
Cheers,
Cody

 

[tarbe]

I did the best I could and carried that Winchester over and hunted with it. I’m sure he was smiling.
Cheers,
Cody
View attachment 389277

We were all smiling, buddy.

 

[C.W. Richter]

Model 70 Winchester, (1952 Vintage) .30-06
150 gr Nosler Partition
58.00 gr IMR-4350
CCI Lg Rifle Primer
Win Brass

This load has been in use for I have no idea how many years. I came to it because consistently it produces my best groups (1.038 MOA) with that bullet. I've tried powders from IMR-3031 to Varget and H-4831 and haven't found anything better. It has performed nothing but one-shot kills on Whitetail and Mule Deer at ranges from less than 10 yds to just over 200 yds. The 200 yd one is the only one that ran any distance and he was dead and just didn't know it. Both lungs and heart shredded.

A few years back I had the chance to chronograph the load. Results were an average of 2,772 fps with an E/S of 19 and an S/D of 9.7. I was kind of surprised thinking velocity should be a little closer to 2,900 give or take. I'm not planning to change anything, but this keeps nagging on me and making me wonder.

Is anyone else shooting this load or one close to it and has chronographed data they would be willing to share? I would appreciate your thoughts and comments.

I use 59 grains of same with 165 grain bullets with great effect and 60 grains of same in the 33806 using 210 grain bullets. You could get higher velocity out of a few other powders but not greater accuracy.

 

[Ray B]

1.038" group. Really?? measured to 1/1000th of an inch? I'm wondering what method of measurement was used.

 

[Bullthrower338]

1.038" group. Really?? measured to 1/1000th of an inch? I'm wondering what method of measurement was used.

He was an petroleum engineer so! Lol