Can any South African weapon owners verify the benefit of joining a dedicated shooters or dedicated

Discussion in 'Firearms & Ammunition' started by Rohan, Jan 3, 2012.

  1. Rohan

    Rohan

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2011
    Messages:
    235
    Likes Received:
    0
    My Photos:
    20
    Hunted:
    South Africa (Limpopo, Free-State, North West, Northern Cape) and Botswana (Tuli Area; Selebi-Pikwe, and Tsabong regions)
    Just as a follow up for those who are interested:

    I got the licence card for my .303 and picked it up yesterday, im pretty happy with the rifle and now that I dont have a gunsmith and other customers watching me I can inspect it properly in my own time. It needs some cleaning as things are a bit tight and 'sticky' but nothing a cleaning kit cant fix. I will not change anything unless something is affecting the performace at the expense of shooting straight, I think I have a classic weapon on my hands here and dont want to break away from that. Wanted to convert to a .308 but was advised this is not a good idea and not even possible with the BSA action, so im fine with that. No games...this rifle is heavier than most of similar class and calibre! There is nothing I can do really to make it lighter as it seems the bulky action is the cause of the weight, but its bearable and I like its classic appeal. It has been sporterised, the butt or bottom half of the stock is actually a Mugrave stock taken form a 9,3x62 Musgrave. I am a Musgrave fanatic.

    The card took three weeks to reach my DFO office after notification of approval, this is not not a terrible time-frame at all, I had surrended to waiting a couple months actually, but heard also from other members on another site that they are doing away with the temp licence that you can (used to) get without a sec21 ie a printed transcript that shows your licenced status which allows you to pick up the weapon without a sec21 permit or a card. They are stopping this because it only adds to the work load and is unnecessary and essentially requires the same documents as a sec21. So, the cards have been coming through in a good time, some people say, because the workload has been shed by stopping this "temp without sec21" licence...I have not ever heard of such a thing maybe because I am younger and never came a cross it before when it was still active, and I find the notion pretty time consuming and impractical as there is already a sec21 que for temp permits, so why did they have this? Perhaps it was there before the sec21..anyway. Maybe the 'older generation' know of this temp without a sec21 but I have never, anyway its just what I heard as a reason that cards are coming through quicker.

    Sent in my .375H&H 271 form with a sec21 518 form. The 'record' for a sec21 temp approval is 3 days for one of the clients of a gunshop in Pretoria (I dont care about or see the value of keeping 'records' and such im just making a point). My DFO said average is six weeks for the temp permit under sec21, lets hope and see. Would like to take both rifles on a Warthog hunt in May. At least the .303 is available. Now being fitted with a 20 year old 4x40 Tasco scope, nothing fancy but has served me well on my fathers .270 for many years. Also has sentimental value, so though I might get a better one, I will never discard it, sell it, or give it away...it has too many scratches on it that remind me of my hunting days with that specific .270.
     
  2. Rohan

    Rohan

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2011
    Messages:
    235
    Likes Received:
    0
    My Photos:
    20
    Hunted:
    South Africa (Limpopo, Free-State, North West, Northern Cape) and Botswana (Tuli Area; Selebi-Pikwe, and Tsabong regions)
    My .303 British

    IMG_8812.jpg IMG_8813.jpg IMG_8815.jpg IMG_8820.jpg IMG_8821.jpg IMG_8822.jpg IMG_8823.jpg IMG_8824.jpg IMG_8825.jpg IMG_8826.jpg
     
  3. sestoppelman

    sestoppelman SILVER SUPPORTER AH Legend

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2010
    Messages:
    2,778
    Likes Received:
    208
    My Photos:
    68
    Member of:
    NRA, NA Hunt Club
    Hunted:
    Tanzania, Botswana, Zimbabwe (2), Namibia, South Africa (2)
    That is a right fair looking "smelly" conversion!
     
  4. Rohan

    Rohan

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2011
    Messages:
    235
    Likes Received:
    0
    My Photos:
    20
    Hunted:
    South Africa (Limpopo, Free-State, North West, Northern Cape) and Botswana (Tuli Area; Selebi-Pikwe, and Tsabong regions)
    Hehe! It can put a hole through a Warthog and im happy about that! The trigger needs serious attention, way too much play, almost an inch of pull before it starts to engage. Otherwise, functional...
     
  5. Wolverine67

    Wolverine67 AH Fanatic

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2011
    Messages:
    549
    Likes Received:
    12
    My Photos:
    21
    Member of:
    SCI, SHAC, RW Guild
    Hunted:
    Norway, Sweden, Poland, South Africa
    I love it!:p
     
  6. Rohan

    Rohan

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2011
    Messages:
    235
    Likes Received:
    0
    My Photos:
    20
    Hunted:
    South Africa (Limpopo, Free-State, North West, Northern Cape) and Botswana (Tuli Area; Selebi-Pikwe, and Tsabong regions)
    Sestoppelman,

    This rifle was sold to me as a BSA .303British, and the payment receipt and stock sheet of the gun shop says BSA... when the licence card came back it says Lithgow .303British. Also see the markings on the rifle says Lithgow. I checked a few pics for Lithgow .303s and this rifle is definitely a Lithgow, exactly same action, I thought SAPS blundered up my card but this rifle is a Lithgow. Now im not sure whats the story, BSA a different company? Or what??? Or take-over etc...? Why do you think te gunshop sold it as BSA, I even wrote down all the details for the application form and stated BSA but it came back as Lithgow, what is the connection? I would think if it was an error from the gunshop side the licence application would have been declined because of the incorrect rifle information, but not...
     
  7. Rohan

    Rohan

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2011
    Messages:
    235
    Likes Received:
    0
    My Photos:
    20
    Hunted:
    South Africa (Limpopo, Free-State, North West, Northern Cape) and Botswana (Tuli Area; Selebi-Pikwe, and Tsabong regions)
    Hey Wolv thanks, its not the prettiest around but it will get most hunting jobs done!
     
  8. spike.t

    spike.t SPONSOR GOLD SUPPORTER AH Legend

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2010
    Messages:
    3,872
    Likes Received:
    654
    My Photos:
    131
    Member of:
    sci int, basc,wpaz
    Hunted:
    zambia, tanzania, zimbabwe, hungary, france, england
    BSA stands for Birmingham small arms who manufactured the short magazine lee-enfield mk3(SMLE) for the british army starting in about 1907. the Lithgow small arms factory is in Lithgow , NSW, Australia. it manufactured the SMLE mk3 for the australian military during world war 1. so the same rifle made in different parts of the world.
     
  9. Rohan

    Rohan

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2011
    Messages:
    235
    Likes Received:
    0
    My Photos:
    20
    Hunted:
    South Africa (Limpopo, Free-State, North West, Northern Cape) and Botswana (Tuli Area; Selebi-Pikwe, and Tsabong regions)
    Thanks Spike,

    I knew about the meaning of BSA and that they manufactured these rifles, but I never knew about the Lithgow factory before now. So, the No1 Mk3 SMLE was manufactured by the BSA factory and the Lithgow factory, and is effectively the same weapon made in different parts of the world. Thanks Spike that clears up a lot of fuzziness. Perhaps the SAPS who registered the rifle on my name got the Lithgow information from the frame serial number.

    There is a number marking on the left side of the frame similar more or less to where Bruno used to have them, it reads 1919: I assume this means it was made in the year 1919 much like Bruno and others dated their rifles. I checked the bore and the rifling is 'perfect' in my opinion and assume also this particular rifle was a surplus that never saw real action in the war/s, maybe just occasional hunting later on. What I don't know how to check is if there is any head-spacing issues etc - these types of issues I only have read about and possibly experienced with other rifles I have hunted with, but have never taken to physically diagnosing such things myself, I am still learning.
     
  10. Wolverine67

    Wolverine67 AH Fanatic

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2011
    Messages:
    549
    Likes Received:
    12
    My Photos:
    21
    Member of:
    SCI, SHAC, RW Guild
    Hunted:
    Norway, Sweden, Poland, South Africa
    How are the access to ammunition for the 303?
    If i'm not wrong, you cannot use standard
    .30 bullets for reloading?
     
  11. RickB

    RickB AH Fanatic

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2011
    Messages:
    865
    Likes Received:
    5
    My Photos:
    11
    Member of:
    NRA lifetime, SCI Member, Longhunters LLC
    Hunted:
    South Africa, Germany, USA (OH, NY, VA, PA, WY)
    If I'm not mistaken the rear sights where different as well. The lithgow had a rear sight like a mauser, on the barrel. The bsa was on the reciever? This may be true about later WWII models. An I think there is something about the bayonet lugs being different as well. If yours is the sporterized one this won't matter.
     
  12. spike.t

    spike.t SPONSOR GOLD SUPPORTER AH Legend

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2010
    Messages:
    3,872
    Likes Received:
    654
    My Photos:
    131
    Member of:
    sci int, basc,wpaz
    Hunted:
    zambia, tanzania, zimbabwe, hungary, france, england
    Rohan the australians used the SMLE mk3 until after the korean war, it wasnt replaced till the late 1950s , by the L1a1 slr. they made the smle at lithgow till 1953. the british army changed to the no4 mk1 rifle early in WW2. so they made them for a long time at lithgow.
     
  13. spike.t

    spike.t SPONSOR GOLD SUPPORTER AH Legend

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2010
    Messages:
    3,872
    Likes Received:
    654
    My Photos:
    131
    Member of:
    sci int, basc,wpaz
    Hunted:
    zambia, tanzania, zimbabwe, hungary, france, england
    the smle had the sights on the barrel wherever it was made. the later rifle no4 mk1 that entered service with the british army early in WW2, had a receiver battle peep sight incorporated into a flip up sight with distance calibrations for longer range/accurate shooting. the bayonet on the smle was the sword type , the no4 rifle had a spike type bayonet with no grip/handle.
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2012
  14. Rohan

    Rohan

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2011
    Messages:
    235
    Likes Received:
    0
    My Photos:
    20
    Hunted:
    South Africa (Limpopo, Free-State, North West, Northern Cape) and Botswana (Tuli Area; Selebi-Pikwe, and Tsabong regions)
    I won't comment on if one can use standard .30 bullets as I'm not sure - I don't reload yet. IF I remember correctly the .303 is a 7.7x57 (I stand to be corrected). Every gun shop I have shopped at in Pretoria that stocks bullets for reloading do have a decent range of weight and brand of the .303 bullet for reloading. In SA the .303 is quite common amongst meat hunters, meat hunters making up a significant percentage of the total, so reloading material is readily available at least in Pretoria (but I am sure all over). A lot of the .303 ownership today is due to the Anglo-Boer War era in SA, so a lot of SA local hunters own them and use them for general hunting.
     
  15. Rohan

    Rohan

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2011
    Messages:
    235
    Likes Received:
    0
    My Photos:
    20
    Hunted:
    South Africa (Limpopo, Free-State, North West, Northern Cape) and Botswana (Tuli Area; Selebi-Pikwe, and Tsabong regions)
    Very informative and interesting Spike. If I could I would actually have a healthy collection of military Mausers and Lee Enfields. I am very keen and interested on such and have been for many years, but Wikipedia and Google seem to only relay the gist of the scene, not to say there is no value there, but I have a genuine and deeper interest, and just not the means to start collecting...one day I will start...think I have one already!
     
  16. 35bore

    35bore AH Elite

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2009
    Messages:
    1,964
    Likes Received:
    64
    My Photos:
    74
    Member of:
    NRA,Missouri hunters ed, SCI, Owensville Gun Club, Quail Forever
    Hunted:
    USA, South Africa, France
    The measurement .303-inch (7.7 mm) is the nominal size of the bore measured between the lands which follows the older blackpowder nomenclature. Measured between the grooves, the nominal size of the bore is .311-inch (7.9 mm). Bores for many .303 military surplus rifles are often found ranging from around .309-inch (7.8 mm) up to .318-inch (8.1 mm). Recommended bullet diameter for standard .303 cartridges is .312-inch (7.9 mm)

    .30 caliber bullet diameter 0.308 in (7.8 mm)
     
  17. spike.t

    spike.t SPONSOR GOLD SUPPORTER AH Legend

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2010
    Messages:
    3,872
    Likes Received:
    654
    My Photos:
    131
    Member of:
    sci int, basc,wpaz
    Hunted:
    zambia, tanzania, zimbabwe, hungary, france, england
    Rohan last time i shot a .303 no4 mk2 was in the cadet force at school quite a while ago, bout 37 years ago!! they were pleasant to shoot i recall. now you have depressed me as to how long ago i left school i am going to bed. :cryingcry:
     
  18. Rohan

    Rohan

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2011
    Messages:
    235
    Likes Received:
    0
    My Photos:
    20
    Hunted:
    South Africa (Limpopo, Free-State, North West, Northern Cape) and Botswana (Tuli Area; Selebi-Pikwe, and Tsabong regions)
    Lol! Oops, but dont worry you still have many many hunting years ahead of you!
     
  19. Rohan

    Rohan

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2011
    Messages:
    235
    Likes Received:
    0
    My Photos:
    20
    Hunted:
    South Africa (Limpopo, Free-State, North West, Northern Cape) and Botswana (Tuli Area; Selebi-Pikwe, and Tsabong regions)
    35,

    I will note this. Thanks
     

Share This Page