Booked a Lioness bow hunt

Discussion in 'Bowhunting Africa' started by kal, Mar 5, 2013.

  1. bluey

    bluey GOLD SUPPORTER AH Legend

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    way to go kal i myself are in the middle of planning a bow hunt lioness, ontop of a 10 day package deal . i will be using my hoyt maxxis32 set at 90lbs and pile driver arrows and unless its a no go i will be using 125 grain 2 blade rage expandables .
    i want to walk her up too. but i will hunt her from a tree stand if i have to .
    it was i toss up over a cape buffalo or a lioness but i think io want to take a queen of savanah first .
    where abouts are you gunna live the dream and in what month
    we will be in east cape in august .
    interested in what you will be tackling her with .
     
  2. TOM

    TOM AH Elite

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    Bluey,

    You sure about that Rage decision. I would much prefer a fixed blade anything if I were you.
     
  3. bluey

    bluey GOLD SUPPORTER AH Legend

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    gday tom
    im 100%sure
    ive emailed the out fitter with my set up and he hasnt got back to me yet
    i know some people (you included )have had some problems with them .
    but i cant fault them .
    if he tells me to get a new plan , i have half a dozoen tusker celtics in the drawer in 200 grain (in case i got to hunt a buffalo this time :crying:)
    they are fixed two blade aussie made broad heads
    if the out fitter says no i will set em up .even without an argue ment ha ha ha
     
  4. kal

    kal AH Veteran

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    Glad to hear about your upcoming hunt Bluey. I am currently planning on using my normal big game setup. The only thing I will be changing out is my heads. I will be swapping my Rage for ether a G5 montec or a Magnus Buzz cut. I have nothing bad to say about Rage but I am trying to take as many technical failures out as I can.
     
  5. Jaco Strauss

    Jaco Strauss AH Elite

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    I would check on legality guys, mechanicals as far as I am concerned are not legal to hunt with maybe Fritz could help us out on this one.
    .................................................................
    I do appologize if I might get to passionate, but in my honest opinion any DCA or PAC specie marketed is absolute bullsh!#$%^&*#@!t

    stay away!!!!!, this started in Zim and spread to Mozie and now we have capitalist guys in SA trying to milk the system, how can one market a DCA PAC in the right mind.... exportable or not.... I find it absolutly ludicrous that this is a marketable or sellable item.

    Soon we will have outfitters representing SA in the US, Germany, Norway, Sweden, Finland, Denmark, Poland and Russia marketing DCA/PAC .....it is a mould or rather a virus that have infected the hunting industry to hunt and sell or label such species before they become a noticeable problem..... It will become a major issue in this industry as it has become in Zim and Mozie..


    My best always.
     
  6. Fritz Rabe

    Fritz Rabe AH Veteran

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    If you want the most exciting Lion hunt in history then you must shoot at it with a mech point. There will be lots of roaring (from the lion), lots of blood (from the client) and a very disturbed PH.
    STAY AWAY FROM DANGEROUS GAME WITH A MECH BROAD HEAD!!!!!

    Please people. Be sensible here. Mech points do have a place but this is not it. I do not care if a mech can shoot through two Bison standing nose to tail. There is so much that can go wrong (and will) on a Dangerous Game hunt. Why make life easy for Mr. Murphy.

    I have guided many Lion hunts with a quality two blade broad heads like GK and the Lions all died fast. You do not need a mech.

    Also. Do not expect that all Outfitters that market DG hunts know about bow hunting them. Very few of them are experts in bow hunting and I am not knocking them now. It is just the way it is.

    If you want sound advice about what to use, ask the people that do it every day for a living.
    You would not ask a Ferrari mechanic to teach you how to win a F1 race. You ask the drivers.
     
  7. Jaco Strauss

    Jaco Strauss AH Elite

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    100% spot on!

    I refuse to guide any DG with Mechanicals, and strongly advise clients against it broadspectrum.

    My best always.
     
  8. Fritz Rabe

    Fritz Rabe AH Veteran

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    Please let me buy you a case of your favorite for this Jaco. I fully support you!!!!!
     
  9. kal

    kal AH Veteran

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    The outfitter I am going with does not allow mechanical for plains game so I would assume the same goes for DG. My current setup creates 73flbs of ke. I am assuming that if I can take down a bear or elk it will handle most of what South Africa can present. I was planning on using the G5 montec or the Buzzcutt. I am open to any suggestions for a setup. I know archery gear is a very subjective subject with thousands of opinions. I have worked in archery shops for some time and have a good handle on archery gear. That being said, I have never hunted an African lioness so I want opinions. Thanks everyone.
     
  10. Fritz Rabe

    Fritz Rabe AH Veteran

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    Never look at KE when it comes to bow hunting. KE only gives you a figure of a force that the bow produces. It does not give you the energy that will be in the arrow while in flight. It is a marketing gimmick that fools most people.

    Rather use Momentum because that will give you a +- indication of Penetrating Ability of the arrow depending on the type of broad head that you use.

    The G5 or Buzzcut is good to use as long as they are razor sharp.
     
  11. Safari Afrika

    Safari Afrika AH Enthusiast

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  12. Fritz Rabe

    Fritz Rabe AH Veteran

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    You are correct in what you say. All hunting of those species is illegal except when you get a permit. That is why I suggest that all prospective clients get copies of the permits/licenses before the hunt. It will help to keep our industry respectable.
     
  13. Safari Afrika

    Safari Afrika AH Enthusiast

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    Here is a shorter version. It categorically states that e permit may NOT be issued by the authorities to hunt large predators with bow and arrow . I posted earlier in this thread I suggest the hunter get a copy of the permit that permits hunting it with a bow . I have had several requests for leopard that I had to turn down because of exactly this .

    Implementation of regulations relating to listed threatened or protected species (TOPS) | Wildliferanching.com

    Happy Hunting !
     
  14. spike.t

    spike.t GOLD SUPPORTER AH Legend

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    well it definitely says a foreign client cant hunt dca animals, but which bit is the listed part,is it where lion, leopard etc are described as vulnerable?
     
  15. Safari Afrika

    Safari Afrika AH Enthusiast

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    Attached copies from the regulations .

    æ–—isted large predator means a specimen of any of the following listed threatened or
    protected species:
    (a) Cheetah (Acinonyx jubatus);
    (b) Spotted hyaena (Crocuta crocuta);
    (c) Brown hyaena (Parahyaena brunnea);
    (d) Wild dog (Lycaon pictus);
    (e) Lion (Panthera leo); or
    (f) Leopard (Panthera pardus);

    Prohibited methods of hunting
    26. (1) An issuing authority considering an application for the hunting of a listed
    threatened or protected species may not authorise the following methods of hunting, unless it
    is for the management of damage causing animals in accordance with regulation 14:
    (a) Listed threatened or protected species, may not be hunted by means of
    (i) poison;
    (ii) traps, except as provided for in subregulation (2);
    (iii) snares;
    (iv) dogs, except as provided for in subregulation (3);
    (v) darting, except as provided for in subregulation (4);
    (vi) a weapon which, after it has been discharged, automatically reloads and fires
    when the trigger thereof is pulled or held in a discharged position;
    (vii) a weapon discharging a rim firing cartridge of .22 of an inch or smaller calibre;
    (viii) shotguns, except for the hunting of birds; and
    (ix) airguns;
    (b) listed threatened or protected species may not be hunted by luring it, by means of
    (i) bait, except in the case of -
    (aa) lions, leopards and hyena, where dead bait may be used;
    (bb) listed threatened or protected marine and other aquatic species; and
    (aa) invertebrates to be collected for scientific purposes;
    (ii) sounds;
    (iii) smell; or
    Formatted: Bullets and Numbering
    11
    (iv) any other induced luring method;
    (c) except as provided for in subregulation (4), (5), (6) or (7) the animal may not be hunted
    by using
    (i) flood or spotlights;
    (ii) motorised vehicles; or
    (iii) aircraft; and
    (d) the animal may not be hunted if it is
    (i) under the influence of any tranquillising, narcotic, immobilising or similar
    agent; or
    (ii) trapped against a fence or in a small enclosure where the animal does not have
    a fair chance of evading the hunter.
    (2) Subregulation (1)(a)(ii) does not prevent the use of traps for the purpose of -
    (a) the hunting and / or catching of listed threatened or protected marine and other aquatic
    species;
    (b) collecting invertebrates for scientific purposes; and
    (c) trapping listed threatened or protected terrestrial vertebrate species for scientific,
    veterinary or management purposes.
    (3) Subregulation (1)(a)(iv) does not prevent the use of dogs for the purpose of
    (a) tracking a wounded animal; or
    (b) flushing, pointing and retrieving listed threatened or protected species.
    (4) Subregulation (1)(a)(v) and (c) does not prevent the darting of an animal by a
    veterinarian or a person authorised by a veterinarian in writing and in possession of a valid
    permit, whether on foot or from a motorised vehicle or aircraft, to immobilise or tranquillise
    the animal for the purpose of
    (a) carrying out a disease control procedure or a scientific experiment or for management
    purposes;
    (b) veterinary treatment of the animal; or
    (c) translocating or transporting the animal.
    (5) Notwithstanding subregulation (1)(c)
    12
    (a) an aircraft may be used for -
    (i) tracking an animal in an area where the hunt takes place over long ranges;
    (ii) culling; and
    (b) a motorised vehicle may be used for
    (i) tracking an animal in an area where the hunt takes place over long ranges;
    (ii) culling;
    (iii) allowing a physically disabled or elderly person to hunt.
    (6) Subregulation (1)(a) and (b) does not prevent the use of the hunting methods or
    luring methods described in these subregulations for the purpose of controlling damage
    causing animals in accordance with regulation 14.
    (7) Subregulation (1)(c) does not prevent the use of flood or spotlights for the
    purpose of
    (a) controlling damage causing individuals;
    (b) culling of listed threatened or protected species; or
    (c) hunting of leopards and hyenas.

    (8) An issuing authority may not issue a permit to hunt a listed large predator,
    Ceratotherium simum (white rhinoceros), Crocodylus niloticus (Nile crocodile), Diceros
    bicornis (black rhinoceros) or Loxodonta africana (African elephant) by means of or by the
    use of a bow and arrow.

    This is the regulations. There is no chance they will issue a DCA for lion in South Africa.
     
  16. kal

    kal AH Veteran

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    So does this mean that I can not hunt a lioness? This is getting more confusing by the day. + I did not see hippo on that last line.
     
  17. spike.t

    spike.t GOLD SUPPORTER AH Legend

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    richard the dca part was to do with a hippo that kal said he had been offered not a lion. i see the listing but fritz says you can get permits to hunt lion with bows, so presumably you can get them for leopard with the correct paper work or not? . :headscratch:
     
  18. enysse

    enysse AH Ambassador

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    This is the problem, that I mentioned a couple years back, Africa need to have a simple book with regulation clear and concise. It should be simple to read and understand. I sometime think people love chaos in someway because they can market any hunt they want and noone can turn for example to page #32, line 5 and say no you can't.
     
  19. Safari Afrika

    Safari Afrika AH Enthusiast

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    Limpopo I know do not ! They will not even issue DCA hippo for clients ! The TOPS regulations is a national regulation. The Provinces may have stricter rules than the national but has to adhere to the national regulations at least. I would like to see if anybody has had a lion permit issued for bow.

    Happy Hunting !
     
  20. Safari Afrika

    Safari Afrika AH Enthusiast

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    Kal, as I said earlier ask your outfitter to give you a copy of the hunting permit issued specifying the hunt with bow . The hippo is a different issue. There has been a moratorium on hunting of thick skinned animals for about the last 10 years. This includes Elephant , Rhino , Hippo . This is only in South Africa . Other countries might have different criteria. If your Outfitter can give you a copy of the permit issued for bow you know all is legit . this is just to cover you and ensure you have a legal hunt ! Good Luck ! Hope all works out for you !

    Happy Hunting !
     

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