best area for big leopards?

Discussion in 'Hunting Africa' started by Raseni, Jan 11, 2013.

  1. Jaco Strauss

    Jaco Strauss AH Elite

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    Mike 100% correct, on all 3, unit two and the cabelas association, woodlands, Unit 1 is by far the best IMO.

    If I recall correctly the units were declared hunting blocks around 73 or 74 and taken over by parks from a management perspective but prior to this they were private farms as well....

    With the unit 2 thing going pear shaped, clients from agents had to be put in somewhere and filtered onto woodlands this happened all through last season and I can not see it changing :(

    Mike Help me with this but I heard a rumor that Zam is on the verge of closing lion and leopard?? Do you know about this?

    I know about the re shuffling but any truth in the cat thing,? This will surely influence prices and availability to mention but one....
    Don't you think..

    You just can not throw away Mozie either there are some nice cats there as well... It was an great to meet you as well and thanks for the kind words, it would be an honor to host yourself and your spouse just remember the safari tales are a pre requisite and they must last way into the night....

    :)

    My best always
     
  2. Mike70560

    Mike70560 AH Fanatic

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    As I understand it all Lion and Leopard hunting is banned in Zambia as is most hunting. There have been many rumors but I understand this as fact. I also understand the hunting ban may be for only one year (being optimistic) but lion and leopard could be long term.


    This is from Andrew Baldrey in Zambia. He is a reputable operator that inititated a model of hunting that included direct benefit to the community and was the first of its kind in Zambia. "Frostbit" who post on AH has hunted with Andrew.

     
  3. Mike70560

    Mike70560 AH Fanatic

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    No politics, only hunting tales, and the scotch must last in to the night. I will furnish some Talisker or Glennlivet.
     
  4. Just Passing Through

    Just Passing Through AH Senior Member

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    I am considering booking a buffalo hunt through Cabelas, but I have read odd remarks about them on this forum (in this thread and others). Is there a problem?
     
  5. Jaco Strauss

    Jaco Strauss AH Elite

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    No problem at all I would just enquire as to which are you would be hunting that's all....

    My best always
     
  6. Mike70560

    Mike70560 AH Fanatic

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    JPT,

    As Jaco stated make certain of the area before you book. To add to that make certain of the exact area and concession, do not accept general answers such the Zambezi Valley, Matetsi, or Lake Kariba area. Also confirm who the outfitter is. Before I booked every hunt I always even make certain who the PH is.

    You should receive this type of specific answer from your agent:

    Area: Omay North
    Camp: Ume River
    Outfitter: Martin Pieters Safaris
    PH: Bruce Cronje

    Do not accept:

    Hunt will be conducted near Hwange in a fly camp with a reputable outfitter. The PH will be determined later.


    If they cannot give you this information including the PH and camp go elsewhere. They also should be able to advise the best time of the year, etc. When you get the answers post the results on the forum for verification before you send in the deposit.
     
  7. Just Passing Through

    Just Passing Through AH Senior Member

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    They give this type of information and a link to the outfitter's website. My question was posed after reading some remarks that I took as an indication of a problem with their present or past bookings. I have used them a couple of times with no problems, but I thought I would ask.

    Thanks for the responses.
    JPT
     
  8. Jaco Strauss

    Jaco Strauss AH Elite

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    JPT there were clients that ended up on Woodlands, wether it was a temporary solution or not, it was also advertised that's how I came to know of it... I believe that Mike has given you some sound advice, and good guidelines to follow not only for Zim but all over Africa.

    My best always
     
  9. Raseni

    Raseni AH Senior Member

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    Dear Jaco,

    I am aware that this is not the best area for leopards due to the lions, but I wanted to maybe do a buff/leo combo, and I know several people who have hunted here, and had great experiences. I did not know this area was taken form someone though, and that hunting there is not "legal"? please enlighten me more.....

    regards
    Rasmus
     
  10. Raseni

    Raseni AH Senior Member

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    I have also been recommende Rutenga area, any info on this area anyone?

    regards
    Rasmus
     
  11. 505ED

    505ED AH Veteran

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    Big cats

    Limpopo in South Africa--big cats!!!!

    Namiba lots of cats some brutes there too
     
  12. Raseni

    Raseni AH Senior Member

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    would like more detailed information about the woodlands area, and the ethics of the place and going there. Some mentioned it was taken from itï½´s rightful owner, could someone please enlighten me more on that subject, and also any info on rutenga?

    cheers
    Rasmus
     
  13. Mike70560

    Mike70560 AH Fanatic

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    Raseni,

    This is how I understand the chain of events. Around 2001 the Woodlands Estate was owned by Larry Cummings. The property was taken by force during the land take overs under the guise of indigenization. Larry was the third generation of his family that owned and managed the Woodlands.

    A white Zimbabwean named Alan Savory and a black Zimbabwean named Huggins Matanga were involved in the takeover (or at least immediately after). Alan was a Zanu PF (Mugabe) supporter and was generally despised by most white Zimbos. The area was supposed to be some sort of research center but Out of Africa began hunting it shortly after the takeover. This is the same OOA that poached the rhino in South Africa not to mention the atrocities they committed to the wildlife in Zimbabwe. Alan now resides in the US.

    Eventually Out of Africa was forced out of Zimbabwe. The property has been hunted by different outfitters several from South Africa with less than sterling reputations. This is not meant as an indictment of all South African outfits.

    In 2008 a tribunal ruled that Zimbabwe was in violation of the Southern African Development Community (SADC) treaty for discriminating against white farmers in the land takeovers. This judgment involved 78 properties including the Woodlands.

    As of today Larry Cummins is not residing on his property.

    As I posted before it is up to each of us to make our own moral and ethical decisions when hunting in Zimbabwe.
     
  14. BRICKBURN

    BRICKBURN SUPER MODERATOR CONTRIBUTOR GOLD BENEFACTOR AH Ambassador

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    Mike, What tribunal was it?
    Is there a report?
    Having the names of all the 78 farms/properties might help those willing to be diligent and help them avoid hunting on them.
    Here's hoping.
     
  15. Gavin Lipjes

    Gavin Lipjes AH Veteran

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  16. Buff-Buster

    Buff-Buster GOLD SUPPORTER AH Elite

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    This thread kinda got off track but it's important info that's being discussed. It really got me thinking about a few things though......We (AH) are currently seeing record numbers of visitors to the site. There are a lot of people out there that are turning to AH for help and information about possibly making their first (second, third, etc) trip to the "Dark Continent". To a "first timer" this thread about Zimbabwe could be pretty scary and could lead you away from considering hunting there. Don't let it. Yes, you need to do your due diligence. Yes, you have to be careful about who you hunt with and where you are actually hunting. This could be said for a lot of places world-wide. There is still some fantastic hunting in Zim. There are also plenty of fantastic PH's and outfitters there that you can trust. Be informed, ask questions, check references, let AH members help. It's important to me that we don't let a handful of bad individuals in Zim/SA hurt the good folks that live there and dedicate their lives to improving it for all of us.
     
  17. Mike70560

    Mike70560 AH Fanatic

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    It was the SADC tribunal. Of course zim ignored the ruling.

    Woodlands is under "France Farms"

    List of all involved and the ruling

    http://www.sadc-tribunal.org/docs/RulingFinalMarch.pdf


    Article stating the France Farms company is the Woodlands property.

    Massive Claim against Zim Govt | The Zimbabwean

    Excerpt from the article.

    It is further stated that a game ranch had been managed on Woodlands Estate A, owned by France Farm. The game ranch is situated near the Victoria Falls.


    "It too suffered illegal dispossession of this property due to the respondent's unlawful land programme."
     

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  18. jrgould

    jrgould AH Member

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  19. BRICKBURN

    BRICKBURN SUPER MODERATOR CONTRIBUTOR GOLD BENEFACTOR AH Ambassador

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    I can only suggest you contact Wayne directly. I do not know if his offer is still available.
     

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