Barnes vs GS Custom

[KMG Hunting Safaris]

Walk and stalk a Jackal? Must have had a good PH?

 

[adgunner]

I seem to remember it going something like "probably won't see one here ..." to "Jackal!! ... shoot!!"pretty quick. As for the PH ... I will have to hunt with him again to see how he has progressed

 

[Gerard]

I understand that g's custom bullets are very costly

GSC reduced the price lists for the Americas recently. This is because of increased demand and we figured that no amount of Black Friday discount beats a permanent reduction in price. Thank you to everyone who made this possible. GSC is in line with most other popular turned monometal bullets and lower in price than some bullets with jackets and lead. We can never be as cheap as stamped bullets but then there are advantages to turning over swaging.

GS uses lead bonded to the copper in their soft points. The rear of the GS like the Barnes is solid copper (ie the lead is up front only)

I think that you confuse GSC with another make. GSC bullets are California certified and contain no lead. We turn pure copper monometal bullets and make four different styles, shortly we will have five because we are adding handgun bullets to the range in the Americas.

The Barnes would have much higher BC due to the more streamlined shape and tipped configurations available

This is may be true for the bullet maker with which GSC is being mistaken. Most of the GSC bullets have higher BCs than most other makers. Check the Technical Data on our website and click on the bullet number or link to open a page concerned with a particular bullet. We give a lot of data that other makers do not.

all copper bullets are softer than conventional gilding metal bullets and can create higher pressures

The higher pressure that standard or grooved mono bullets create, come from higher engraving pressure. Drive band bullets like GSC is different. It is quite involved but, in the FAQ section on our site is a page titled Drive Bands or Grooves, and this gives the data with illustrations.

GS also produces some "heavy for caliber" weights in the 375 and up class of dangerous game bullets.

We do make heavy for caliber bullets but these are mostly for special applications and special twist rates. We do not make any for dangerous game use. The GSC experience on game led us to a better solution and we do heavy for caliber only to get serious distance, like on the far side of 1000m.

If there are any questions about GSC, do not hesitate to ask. We now manufacture our full line-up of bullets in the USA.

 

[KMG Hunting Safaris]

Thanks for joing in Oom Gerard!

 

[lcq]

lcq,
The rifle that I rent out to my guests for Cape Buffalo is CZ .375H&H. Unless requested something else, they are loaded with 200gr GS Custom running in the region of 3200fps. Out of the last 4 Buffalo taken with this rifle, 7 shots were taken, with 4 complete pass through. The extra shots were insurance shots. I recovered about 2 of them. One of the projectiles measured 100% weight retention.
On the 130gr GSC out of the .308Win, depending on the distance, the bullets do throw their petals away, which I'm on the fence whether its a good or bad thing. I suppose without the petals, it plays a factor in the penetration. I am yet to weigh them after this, but believe it will be around 85% weight retention.

This one hit a tree on the way to the buff and continued in a straight line:

Nice to see real world experiences. Shedding petals is a bit concerning though, particularly when driven at only 2900.


Top view:



Tree:





Projectile obviously obviously going ass over end....



End Result:

Real world examples are really important and helpful. I find shedding petals at only 2900 a bit concerning. The 7mm would surely skin them off at an extra 300fps.

 

[Gerard]

GSC designs to shed the petals after penetration, expansion and full wound channel forming. See the Expansion and Weight Retention item at FAQ on our website for a full explanation on what GSC found works best. We rolled many decades of personal hunting of game (more than a thousand), over 4000 animals hunted in total from duiker to elephant and 20 years of personally acting as huntmaster, into the design of our HV bullet.

Every comment about GSC bullets is carefully scrutinised and the overwhelming complaint is that GSC remains in short supply. No expanding too quick, expanding too slow, lack of penetration, too much penetration, BC too high, BC too low, or any other complaint about bullet performance. Just solid reliability. We just cannot supply fast enough.

 

[lcq]

GSC designs to shed the petals after penetration, expansion and full wound channel forming. See the Expansion and Weight Retention item at FAQ on our website for a full explanation on what GSC found works best. We rolled many decades of personal hunting of game (more than a thousand), over 4000 animals hunted in total from duiker to elephant and 20 years of personally acting as huntmaster, into the design of our HV bullet.

Every comment about GSC bullets is carefully scrutinised and the overwhelming complaint is that GSC remains in short supply. No expanding too quick, expanding too slow, lack of penetration, too much penetration, BC too high, BC too low, or any other complaint about bullet performance. Just solid reliability. We just cannot supply fast enough.

Thanks Gerard it is not easy to wrap my mind around the mono metal terminal ballistics but your real world testing and endorsements from PH's like Marius put my mind at ease. I'll order some when I get back from Mexico.

 

[HuntingGold]

I came into this conversation very very late. However I am one of the clients that shot Marius's gun while in RSA two years ago. We were shooting his .308 with the 130 grain HV bullets. Wow. I am still impressed. The only thing that has kept me from trying them in my own rifle is the huge stockpile of bullets I already have. I am getting closer and just may make my first purchase this year.

lcq,
Please post your results.

Randy

 

[Brian]

A complete


A complete pass through with a 308 on an eland, wow that is astounding

I and my associates have used GSC bullets is 30 cal. and 7mm cal. on approximately 52 plains game. This is our experience:

1. Very accurate bullet.

2. Unreliable Terminal Performance. When they open/expand as advertised they kill like a TSX bullet.
Too often they don't expand as advertised. Sometimes they just zip right though the animal, leaving a small exit hole We have recovered too many GSC hunting bullet that did not expand at all.
We have learned this the hard way and I want to give hunters the heads up. Negative reports are uncommon but sometimes very helpful.

The large cal. HV bullets might be more reliable and the solids are probably as good as other bullets like NF and CEB.
I cannot recommend GSC in the medium bores. Go with TSX or TTSX.

 

[lcq]

I and my associates have used GSC bullets is 30 cal. and 7mm cal. on approximately 52 plains game. This is our experience:

1. Very accurate bullet.

2. Unreliable Terminal Performance. When they open/expand as advertised they kill like a TSX bullet.
Too often they don't expand as advertised. Sometimes they just zip right though the animal, leaving a small exit hole We have recovered too many GSC hunting bullet that did not expand at all.
We have learned this the hard way and I want to give hunters the heads up. Negative reports are uncommon but sometimes very helpful.

The large cal. HV bullets might be more reliable and the solids are probably as good as other bullets like NF and CEB.
I cannot recommend GSC in the medium bores. Go with TSX or TTSX.

thanks for the heads up, much appreciated first hand experience

 

[KMG Hunting Safaris]

I and my associates have used GSC bullets is 30 cal. and 7mm cal. on approximately 52 plains game. This is our experience:

1. Very accurate bullet.

2. Unreliable Terminal Performance. When they open/expand as advertised they kill like a TSX bullet.
Too often they don't expand as advertised. Sometimes they just zip right though the animal, leaving a small exit hole We have recovered too many GSC hunting bullet that did not expand at all.
We have learned this the hard way and I want to give hunters the heads up. Negative reports are uncommon but sometimes very helpful.

The large cal. HV bullets might be more reliable and the solids are probably as good as other bullets like NF and CEB.
I cannot recommend GSC in the medium bores. Go with TSX or TTSX.

Brain, as you mentioned that you found a couple of bullets that did not expand, I presume that the animals were recovered. Would you mind posting a photo or two of these bullets that did not expand? The small exit hole that you are referring to, might be from the bullet having already shed it's petals, and continuing in a straight line, as explained by Gerard above.

I have used GSC for probably close to 7 years now. They are not the only bullets that I use, with other brands being Peregrine, Barnes and Woodleigh. I believe in horses for courses and that different brands have different applications in my field. I am very curious to hear more about your experience, and hopefullysee some photos.

Thanks for the report.

Take Care,
Marius Goosen

 

[Divernhunter]

We have used the Barnes TTSX bullets and have never lost an animal yet. All have been one shot kills except one that I put an insurance shot into since I keep shooting until down and not moving. Long ago I lost a deer that dropped but was moving and by the time I crossed a canyon he was gone. That is a very unpleasant feeling.

The older Barnes X-Bullet had petals that broke off. I did not care for that. The TTSX preforms much better in a wide range of calibers/cartridges.
Barnes bullets are also 100% copper with relief cuts to reduce/stop bore fouling like the old ones did, They work better and fly more accurate the faster you push them, they work like a lead core bullet 30% heaver so select a lighter bullet, they like(need) more bullet jump to be more accurate.
I have used TTSX Barnes bullets in 257/6.5/7mm/308/338/44 caliber in several different cartridges in each caliber except 338 and 44. All have never failed me.

All that said we used Swift A-Frames on our last African PG hunt taking 20+ animals not counting monkeys and all were one shot no to very short tracking except my Gemsbuck which the 1st shot was a snap shot and I placed it too high. The quick follow up but it down. My daughter was shooting a 257Roberts with 120gr A-Frames taking Kudu/Zebra and a number of other animals. I used my 338win mag with 225gr A-Frames and had a 30-06 with 150gr Barnes TTSX with me.
On my next trip in May 2017 I will again be using A-Frames in a 264win mag and the trusty 338win mag.

In 308win I suggest 130gr bullets if possible in Barnes or GSC. I would take whatever other rifle you shoot well as backup rifle.

I have never tried the GSC bullets as the Barnes have done all I could ask -----but I did look at them---just settled on Barnes and in a lead core bullet the Swift Bullets or Nosler Partitions depending on the cartridge.

My 2 cents and enjoy your hunting.

 

[Brian]

Recovered bullets look similar to new bullet. Did not keep bullets as a never planned to show them, but my pals said I should disclose the experience.

Brain, as you mentioned that you found a couple of bullets that did not expand, I presume that the animals were recovered. Would you mind posting a photo or two of these bullets that did not expand? The small exit hole that you are referring to, might be from the bullet having already shed it's petals, and continuing in a straight line, as explained by Gerard above.

I have used GSC for probably close to 7 years now. They are not the only bullets that I use, with other brands being Peregrine, Barnes and Woodleigh. I believe in horses for courses and that different brands have different applications in my field. I am very curious to hear more about your experience, and hopefullysee some photos.

Thanks for the report.

Take Care,
Marius Goosen

 

[Brian]

PS, I just read the above by Gerard. He said that the bullet is designed to shed the petals after penetration. Yet, his add pictures show the petals intact and nicely folded back. I don't understand it.

 

[Brian]

Welcome.

 

[Aaron N]

lcq,
The rifle that I rent out to my guests for Cape Buffalo is CZ .375H&H. Unless requested something else, they are loaded with 200gr GS Custom running in the region of 3200fps. Out of the last 4 Buffalo taken with this rifle, 7 shots were taken, with 4 complete pass through. The extra shots were insurance shots. I recovered about 2 of them. One of the projectiles measured 100% weight retention.
On the 130gr GSC out of the .308Win, depending on the distance, the bullets do throw their petals away, which I'm on the fence whether its a good or bad thing. I suppose without the petals, it plays a factor in the penetration. I am yet to weigh them after this, but believe it will be around 85% weight retention.

This one hit a tree on the way to the buff and continued in a straight line:



Top view:



Tree:





Projectile obviously obviously going ass over end....



End Result:

200gr? Are my eyes ok? What's GS style is that

 

[KMG Hunting Safaris]

200gr? Are my eyes ok? What's GS style is that

Hi Aaron,
That is correct. It is the HV range that I use.

 

[Ray B]

From what I've read the various one-metal bullets have been improved in the last several years. My experience with the Barnes all-copper bullets is based on when they were newly introduced and didn't have the bands. The two detrimental characteristics I found were: 1. they fouled the bore extensively (I understand new production bullets with the bands reduce pressure and friction on the bore and have reduced the fouling problem) and 2. the petals peeled back at different rates, one side would bend back quickly and possibly even break-off, while the other side ben partially back. The effect was like a rudder on a boat and would steer the bullet off of the angle of penetration so that while it went out of the animal, it may take a course out the side rather than driving straight through. As a result, I have not used Barnes bullets in about 20 years, preferring the copper jacket, lead bonded core bullets where expansion is desired.

 

[Brian]

Ray, I agree. I won't use a bullet that doesn't work all the time when I can use one that does.

The word is that the TSX and TTSX bullets are very reliable. The newer TTSX also has improved Internal ballistics. (In the barrel) I have not killed anything with them but will take them to Africa soon.

However, the GS Custom bullets seems to need all the stars aligned in order to perform at it's best, and even then it is not consistant.
Right weight, right twist and right velocity and right distance will improve the hunters chances of getting optimum performance out of the GS Custom Bullet. And, even then they claim that optimum performance may include some petals breaking off, or not.

I would rather use a bullet that I can count on every time, especially on an expensive, once in a life time hunt on tough animals.

 

[Art Lambart II]

My dad, brother and I just returned from South Africa and we each used a 35 Whelen. My dad used a 225 grn TSX, my brother used a 225 grn Accubond and I used a 250 grn Nosler Partition. The results from all three bullets where the same but the bullet performance differed. The TSX and the Accubond always exited, my NP stopped just under the far side skin on my Gemsbok and my Impala (frontal chest shot, 4ft of penetration). When I hunt here in the US I want full penetration because I want a good blood trail follow if necessary. In Africa the trackers can track a lizard across a flat rock, so I want a bullet that does as much internal damage as possible, expends all its energy inside the animal and stops just under the skin on the far side. If your hunting the Bushveld use the 308 and a NP, if your hunting a more open area where your shots are over 200 yards use the 7mm Mag with and Barnes if you gun will shot it if not use the Accubond.