B. Searcy 500/416 NE

[matt85]

i dont mind if the gun doesnt like the TSX bullet, one of the main reasons i wanted the 500/416 NE is because there is a huge selection of bullets. if i cant get barnes to work i still have Swift, Woodliegh, North fork, Nosler, Hornady, CEB, and a few others which i cant remember off the top of my head. even Speer makes a 350gr SP .416" bullet which may not be suitable for DG but im betting i can use it for north american game or cheap target shooting.

-matt

 

[AkMike]

When you start your load work up make sure that you try the CEB monos with this gun.

 

[Velo Dog]

i dont mind if the gun doesnt like the TSX bullet, one of the main reasons i wanted the 500/416 NE is because there is a huge selection of bullets. if i cant get barnes to work i still have Swift, Woodliegh, North fork, Nosler, Hornady, CEB, and a few others which i cant remember off the top of my head. even Speer makes a 350gr SP .416" bullet which may not be suitable for DG but im betting i can use it for north american game or cheap target shooting.

-matt

Excellent plan.

 

[matt85]

When you start your load work up make sure that you try the CEB monos with this gun.

I do love the look of those CEB solids! in fact im trying to work up a load with them right now in my 375 H&H. ive done a bit of playing around with them out in the woods just to see how they do against random objects (trees, garbage, phone books) and the results were beyond impressive. at 20 yards I shot a small boulder about 24" in diameter and it blew the dang thing in half.

I am a bit concerned about using the CEB solids in a double rifle but I will probably give them a shot. solid brass bullets always made me nervous but CEB swore they would do no damage to barrels.

-matt

 

[enysse]

From what I understand the CEB and NorthFork bullets don't exert that much pressure in the barrels.

There was a problem with the original Barnes X bullets. Immediately Barnes recognized they needed to have grooves to relieve the pressure.

 

[matt85]

it wasnt pressure that worried me about brass bullets. what concerns me is that brass isnt the softest metal to be rubbing against the rifling at 2300+ FPS. im sure its probably "ok" since you dont typically shoot a ton of solids and the driving bands arent very thick so there isnt alot of contact. i will probably buy a box of CEB solids to play with and if i can get a load to work then ill make a a box of cartridges for potential future use (when i can afford an elephant).

my PH doesnt believe in using solids on buffalo. he insists that modern premium bullets hold together well enough to not need a back up. also, from every thing ive read, the Barnes TSX bullet acts like an expanding solid and will often punch completely threw animals including buffalo. i was just reading a story of a genlemens hunt where he shot two buffalo using 400gr .416" TSX bullets out of i believe a 416 Rigby. the first animal he shot strait on in the chest at 90 yards and the bullet went almost completely threw the animal stopping at the pelvis. the second animal was shot at around 200 yards broad side and that bullet completely passed threw the animal taking out the heart in the process.

-matt

 

[AkMike]

Don't over look the CEB 'hollow points' they work great! The hex hole sheds the petals that break off a few inches into the critter and each cuts it's own wound channel. The remaining base keeps going in a straight line. No or minimal deflection from a distorted nose.

 

[matt85]

i have looked at the CEB "HP" bullets but im not so sure about them. in theory they sound good for DG but i havent heard nearly enough success stories of people using them on thick skinned DG to consider using them.

there is no shortage of success stories using Swift A-frames or Barnes TSX bullets which has put them at the top of my list for DG bullets. the only failures ive heard of with Barnes bullets are with the older X bullets like the ones coming with this rifle. hence, i will use the X bullet cartridges for practice rounds and reload them with the newer TSX bullets.

-matt

 

[AkMike]

`Tis your choice.
I'll use the CEB's.

 

[matt85]

sounds good, please post detailed info on the effectiveness of the CEB raptor.

if enough people use them and they perform well for people then I will consider using them as well.

-matt

 

[PaulT]

In the interests on full disclosure I want to acknowledge here that, although I have no financial interest in the manufacturing or sales of C.E.B projectiles, I am good friends with Dan (owner of C.E.B) and Mike McCourry and Sam Rose, both of whom were responsible for the trialing, testing and designing of the B.B.W #13 "non-con" and solid.

During the design process M.McCourry undertook a number of management hunts for buffalo with me, in Northern Australia, where considerable numbers of buffalo were taken under varying, and sometimes trying, conditions.
Calibers used and tested included; 9.3, 416, 458, 475, 50 & 51o and included several different bullet weights in each caliber.

In total, over a number of hunts conducted between 2009 and 2013, just slightly less than 100 buffalo were taken during these hunts.

Personally, I have taken 17 buffalo, 8 wild Oxen, a number of large wild boars and close to two dozen feral horses with these bullets from my own firearms.

It is without reservation that I state that it is my opinion that the C.E.B Safari Raptor #13 is the most consistently performing, deepest and straightest penetrating most effective buffalo hunting projectile it has ever been my good fortune to use.
Bar none.

Anecdotal evidence of the successful use of the C.E.B #13 non-con and Solid in different calibers, on different game can be found by researching and reading at www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com.
These projectiles have successfully been used by a number of hunters in a variety of calibers on all manner of African game with some outstandingly successful results

If you bother to read and research you'll also find real data results for testing various bullets in doubles for barrel strain and pressures, putting a lot of myths about "hard" bullets and "soft"
barrels in to perspective.
Do your own homework.

End result for me ?

My primary back-up gun on buffalo hunts is a .500 wildcat bolt gun loaded with a 450gn pure brass #13 Safari Raptor at 2400 fps.
This load is DEVASTATING on buffalo in ALL circumstances, from all angles !

My secondary back-up gun, and early season (thick conditions), or when guiding bow hunters is a V.C double .500 loaded with a 475gn pure brass #13 Safari Raptor at just over 2400fps.
I have yet to use this load on buffalo in my own gun but have used it in a friends gun and have seen that load used by others and it is DEVASTATING on buffalo (and generates LESS Pressure and barrel strain than the anemic loads that the gun was originally regulated for).

My emergency back-up gun, and late season (drier and longer shots) is a .458 Lott loaded with #13 450gn Safari Raptor at 2400fps.
This load will enter the rear ham on a going away buffalo, break the hip bone, go through the paunch and at very least lodge deep in the forward chest, or fully penetrate.

I pay for all of my bullets.

Your mileage may vary.

 

[matt85]

to say you are emotionaly invested in this bullet would be an understatement, even going as far as to imply i have done no research on the bullet.

although i am very happy to hear you have had great results. i imagine the 370gr .416" bullet could produce interesting results. i admit the price is a bit intemidating though, at $81 a box they are more expensive then both Barnes and Swift. but, since i already plan on buying a box of CEB solids i might aswell pick up a box of the raptors aswell. the idea of sending one projectile into the heart and have a number of smaller projectiles hit the surrounding area (possible the lungs) is very appealing.

what makes trusting these bullets tough is that i dont get to shoot 30+ buffalo. i get just one and this makes it tough to justify trying something new when there are a number of other well proven bullets available.

-matt

 

[PaulT]

Matt,
the reason I clarified my "position" with C.E.B was in the interests of disclosure.

My "emotional investment" in the Safari Raptor is based purely on end results and the performance I have experienced from using them, NOT because me friends were involved in the design.
Let me be clear on that right now !

You shoot 100 odd buffalo with a particular bullet in half a dozen different calibers, in different circumstances, at varying distances
WITHOUT A FAILURE, WITHOUT ANY LOST ANIMALS AND with total performance as the design suggests they will perform and maybe you might develop an "emotional" bond with that bullet too.

If these bullets did not work as well as they do I personally would not "invest";
# the time required in establishing working loads,
# the cost over less expensive bullets,
# the risk in performance in stopping/recovering client's animals.
I'm not here to sell you C.E.B's.

You are free to use what you want.

You asked for anecdotal evidence on the performance of the C.E.B as you state;
"i havent heard nearly enough success stories of people using them on thick skinned DG to consider using them" and I provided you with some.

You also state; "when there are a number of other well proven bullets available".
To me this statement is suggestive that the C.E.B's are not proven.
They may well not be proven to those not using them, but there ARE plenty of us who ARE using them, and they are well proven for us.

In as much as me "going as far as to imply i have done no research on the bullet" you previous comments lead me to make that assumtion.
If you HAVE already researched the "Terminal Bullet Performance" thread and the anecdotal notes of field performance results recorded on the web page b-mriflesandcartridges and data logged of testing for chamber pressures and barrel strains done on Sam Rose's .500 Nitro then my apologies are forthcoming.

Buy and shoot what you want, but when you ask for advice expect to get it, and a bullet is not "unproven" simply because all of the big gun scribes haven't written about it, or that bullet isn't the feature of every second hunting article you read in the various magazines

Good health and good hunting.

 

[CAustin]

What a great looking rifle sir. It would be a dream gun for me. I hope you have some great hunts with it.
I looked into buying a Sabatti 450 NE at the Kansas City Cabela's and came within an inch of doing it. That is until I looked them up on the net and found out about all the regulation trouble people had with them. By the way it didn't matter what kind of ammo was used to test them......Sabatti just used short cuts to build the darn things. Be glad to be ride of the thing.

 

[AkMike]

Very well said Paul!
Those CEB bullets are very very good!

 

[matt85]

fine PaulT, you win. the CEB raptor is great, i apolagize for doubting them.

now back on topic, AkMike you mentioned you knew a smith who was skilled with B. Searcy rifles. could you please PM me his info?

thank you

 

[AkMike]

Done

 

[PaulT]

fine PaulT, you win. the CEB raptor is great, i apolagize for doubting them.

now back on topic, AkMike you mentioned you knew a smith who was skilled with B. Searcy rifles. could you please PM me his info?

thank you

Well, I didn't realize I was in a race or competition with you, or anyone else, Matt, but it's always good to know I've won.
Great.
What's my prize.

Perhaps, before you post any more threads, if you going to get your nose out of joint when someone provides an answer you don't like, on a public forum, you should consider changing to wearing boxer shorts.
There is a much lower chance of them getting bunched up on you.

"sounds good, please post detailed info on the effectiveness of the CEB raptor."
"now back on topic",

Well, i'm not sure but isn't this YOUR topic.

Grow up.

 

[matt85]

a bit of an update here for any one who cares:

I finally got in touch with Butch and unfortunately he did not have the load data for the guns regulating load. he did confirm that that gun was regulated with a Barnes X bullet which is good to hear since I want to use a TSX bullet. we discussed reloading a bit and after listing the powder I have we came to the agreement that I should be able to find a load using between 84-89grs of IMR 4350.

Butch is currently recovering from back issues and told me he wont be available for a little while. however, he did suggest I call him in a month or so and he would have me send the rifle in so he could inspect and clean the internals.

thanks
-matt

 

[Velo Dog]

a bit of an update here for any one who cares:

I finally got in touch with Butch and unfortunately he did not have the load data for the guns regulating load. he did confirm that that gun was regulated with a Barnes X bullet which is good to hear since I want to use a TSX bullet. we discussed reloading a bit and after listing the powder I have we came to the agreement that I should be able to find a load using between 84-89grs of IMR 4350.

Butch is currently recovering from back issues and told me he wont be available for a little while. however, he did suggest I call him in a month or so and he would have me send the rifle in so he could inspect and clean the internals.

thanks
-matt

I am interested in how the load development for the Searcy turns out.