Are Hunters and Outfitters at Odds with Each Other?

Discussion in 'Hunting Africa' started by Cleathorn, Jan 16, 2011.

  1. Cleathorn

    Cleathorn AH Senior Member

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    There have been some very good threads in the last few weeks. Most recently there was the a great thread about the "PAC trend." For he record, I do not like it!

    That said, I think the underlying issue is the escalting cost of international (or any) hunting at a time when hunter numbers are going down and the global economy is in a recession.

    I am a "client." Therefore, I determine my hunting budget. Hunting is recreational - although at times I fel like its why I live. But I have kids, a wife, home, cars, sports, etc. Hunting is not essential. As everything else goes up my disposable income (used for hunting) goes down.

    Outfitters make there living from taking clients hunting. Hunting therefore is their life. The only way to make more money (and we all want more money) is to raise prices. On top of what the PH makes is the government costs, taxes, quota/trophy fees, export fees etc.

    I have heard time and again that PH's are not geting rich by hunting. I am sure that is true. Herein lies the problem, the cost is going up but the people providing the service are not seeing it in their wallets. So to make more they must increase their prices on top of the increasing concession/quota/trophy fees.

    From what I have been told, "most" African clients are Americans. The average hunter age in the US is now over 50. Baby-boomers are the largest segment of the hunting community. As the economy goes down, so to does our disposable income. And once they have done it (that is, the hunting), or done it several times, the justification for spending the money goes down. So to keep hunting we must look for the best prices we can get, or not hunt at all.

    Dangerous game is more efected than plains game hunts. The reason is pure cost. The "average" American family lives on $50-$60K a year. That is about the cost of a Botswana Elephant hunt. At times I think that too many people think that al Americans are rich. Our general stanard of living is pretty high but we have the largest personal debt of any Country in the world - most Americans ae living on credit.

    So PH's must realize, as a pure statement of fact, that their "average cleint" is not the "average guy" in the US. Its only the very wealthy who can afford these hunts. There is a continuing trend in he United States where the divide between the wealthy and middle clas is growthing larger evey day. Right now there is less than 5% of the total US population that earns over $250,000 year. And only a fraction of them are hunters. Those within the hunting community are guys who are growing older, have been there and done that and are now hunting less.

    So what does his mean. Essentially what it means is that prices are going up while demand is going down. The Plains Game safaris that cater more to the "average guy" still has an abundant hunter pool. But there is tremendous competition among PH's for that group of hunters. South Africa is quickly taking over the PG sector because of the cost comparison between PG hunts in RSA and other, more remote countries, like Botswana, Zimbabwe, Zambia, etc.

    What it means for DG game unts is that it is a buyers market. At the big shows over the last 2 years is was easy to see PH's competing with each other over cleints. Prices were falling as a guy would walk back and forth between outfitters looking for the best deal. I see that trend continuing.

    I will use myself as an example. I love Africa. I hunt evey year. A DG animal is now always part of my hunt. I have a friend and PH is RSA. I also have a PH that I love to hunt with in Zim. But even with these "regular contacts," I still look around the market place before booking my hunts. I want to know what options I have in the different countries that I can hunt. It's not just cost, its the opprotunities.

    For example, I will hunt elepahnt in 2012. I have been very upfront with 3 or 4 guys that I am hunting in 2012. I have asked these guys to see what interesing things, additional oprotunities or price specials that they can offer me. For my part I have to make my dollars go further.

    So what I am looking at are things like later season hunts to fill out quota's to get better pricing. I am looking for outfitters who will let my wife come at the best observer rate possible (does an extra person realy ost $250, 350, ???,50 per day?) and if she wants to take an animal or 2, I do not expect her to be upgraded to another hunter for the duration of the hunt. If I am on a PG hunt and a Sable on quota is availible, I will try and get that animal (for the full trophy fee) without upgrading from the day rate I booked at to the "Sable rate." (Why is it that PG rates are between $450-$650/day but if you want a Sable it goes to over $1,000/day for the whole hunt?)

    THere may be great Lion hunting in Zambia but I will not pay close to $60K to hunt lions in the Luongo Valley. I will hunt them in Zim for 1/2 that price. I will hunt the border concesions in Zim or in the Caprivi for elephant rather than paying double the cost to cross the border and shoot the same elephant in Botswana.

    My concern with all of this is that PH's and clients are becoming at odds with each other because of cost. Hunters pay for conservation. They also boost economies. But Governments and Counsels who establish certain rates like concession fees and trophy fees must see the trend of advancing hunter age, decling hunters in the global hunting community, the realities of the economic crisis and have a price correction on the higher end hunts. There are just to few hunters to justify the inceasing costs of hunting abroad. But it is almost impossible for governmenst to go backwards - hey never look for LESS REVENUE.

    I have taken the Big 5 (no PAC hunts for me) and will do it again. My wife is on her way as well. We are the exception in that we are at the tender age of 40. But as prices generally go up each season, we have to look for better and better deals each year. The fact is, in a supply and demand marketpace, there are more hunting oprotunities than hunters and I feel like I have to look for the best opprotunities for my money.

    There is the PH/Outfitter side to this discussion that I hope the excellent guys on this forum will address. I am really curious to see this from your perspective. I will be very interested to see how some of you guys are handling this difficult market and what your long term plans are for dealing with fewer and fewer baby-boomer hunters. In other words, what are you, or can you, do to attract the much smaller community of hunters in the 35-45 year old age bracket?

    This topic on some another forum would result in mudslinging by the third reply. I really hope that AH will live up to its high standards and we can have a very infomred discussion among the hunting community of hunters and PH/Outfitters within trying to verbally kill each other.

    Best regards,
  2. Spiral Horn Safaris

    Spiral Horn Safaris AH Fanatic

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    Hi Cleathorn

    This is a very sensitive topic and no doubt one that a lot of us might have been avoiding for quite some time.

    I fully agree with you that the economy is really hard on our clients which in turn makes it tough on us.

    Unfortunately I don’t hunt on a big concession I have my own game farm in South Africa so I can only give one side of the story.

    I think a big problem is that even thought the economy is not doing well costs keep mounting here are some examples I have to look at every year:

    1 Employing staff the whole year round.
    2 The cost of electricity
    3 Breakages
    4 The costs associated on keeping all the equipment running trucks,tractor,……..
    5 Cost of fencing
    6 Maintaining roads and airstrip
    7 Cost of feed
    8 Insurance
    9 Improvements
    10 Maintenance on structures
    11 Professional services (vet)
    12 Fuel for trucks……


    These are costs we have the whole year round, and since our main business is seasonal we have to make enough money out of 8 moths(then you are doing really well) to last us for the whole year.

    There are other costs as well but those will be as you get clients in and they pay a daily rate that should cover those expenses example chef, food and alcohol.

    We have marketing costs on a yearly basis that should be budgeted for as well some use cheaper methods than others and I would like to think it would be to keep costs down so they can pass the saving on to their clients.

    Competition is really tough right now since we are not just competing with people who have the same expenses we have on a yearly basis, you get some operations who don’t own land now they are not bad people nor are they bad operations but they can afford to price lower than the guy who has land since he simply does not have the fixed costs structure we have.

    Some (and only some) of these operations have nothing invested nor do those bad apples care about anything ells but to make a quick buck! Please note there are some excellent operations out there who don’t have a property of their own but it is a lot easier to drop the ball when you are not going to lose your farm due to a bad reputation.

    This is also hurting the industry and making it really tough for others to keep the good reputation of the country in tact? A client comes over get’s his fingers burnt and then leave with the perception that everyone is bad, certainly understandable but it is also hurting us right now.

    Bottom line as you said Cleathorn there is more supply than demand and it is becoming more and more clear to me that there is a price war going on the focus has shifted from providing a good service and keeping our clients happy to how low can you go?

    I think we should broaden our income channels by focusing on other income channels like ecotourism, we can surely get local hunter in to take off our extra female’s (do culling) but then it has to be balanced and that is a lot tougher than it sounds. The other thing to consider might be the time it takes for an animal to reach the stage where it is considered by many as a trophy, this is not a problem if you have a put and take operation but it certainly does become one when you only have so many (as example kudu bulls) to shoot for the year or you will damage your future trophy animals.

    There will surely be others to share their opinions on the matter so that would be it from me right now.

    Yours sincerely
    Louis van Bergen




  3. enysse

    enysse AH Ambassador

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    I'll be 38 in less than a month. Guys I know that are near retirement or are retired....see the whole hunting industy collapsing at some point. Maybe they are right. Cleathorn you bring up a ton of good points as usual. I don't know what the answer is.....I live to hunt....but I live to be with my wife and kids too. And hunting can be cut out of the budget at times.....and more and more people are doing it too. I think governments have gotten too greedy. Heck I remember less than 6 years ago you could hunt leopard with a great outfitter for $450 a day in Zim....but not anymore...double that fee...now you have a lot less people at $800 to $1000 a day....plus the trophy fees and etc.

    From a outfitters stand point it's expensive to find clients and still make a decent living.

    There are no easy answers!
  4. kuduman

    kuduman AH Veteran

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    i was waiting for this type of thread to start. i have only recently taken the plunge into african hunting. i hunted r.s.a. in 09 and was looking for something different next time around. i am still getting my animals mounted one at a time , just to afford it, and after all the associated costs of dip and pack and shipping etc, i realize that as a blue collar worker, it is out of the question to bring back as many animals next time. i will be looking at euro mounts or just pictures. i attended a sports show last winter and spent the night in the same hotel as the outfitters. after several cocktails with them, i realized how much they are hurting. the price of plains game hunting is slowly going down, and they are willing to wheel and deal a little, as there are a ton of outfitters in r.s.a. i have decided to hunt a different country, but was shocked at the price of some hunts outside of r.s.a.and namibia. i just cannot afford these prices. someday, i would like to hunt d.g. but that seems to be a pipe dream. i have settled on an outfitter in namibia. one of the reasons, is they offer a cull hunt as well as taken trophys as per list price. this way, i can still enjoy a great hunt for an economical price, or more bang for my buck.inches or record book animals is really not that important to me. i will also be touring for 2 weeks. i live in northern canada, and with the rising price of fuel, there is a drastic reduction in hunter numbers in the last couple of years. as well as fewer young hunters every year. i hope things balance out but i see things getting worse before they get better. best wishes to the hunting industry
  5. Cleathorn

    Cleathorn AH Senior Member

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    The industry in North America is facing the same issues. What happened was that as the outdoor channel became popular, monster whitetail and elk hunting took of like a rocket. Every guy with a ranch or farm became an outffiter and tried to make it in the huting industry hunting only 6-8 weeks a year. THe prices got ridiculous. $5,000 US for a single deer hunt and easily over $10,000 for an elk hunt. When the market crashed in 2008 so did the hunting market in the US. The wannabe outffiters survived one season with cut rate prices (and services) and were done. The hunters have not come back. For example, I have been drawing points for several years to get a ag to hunt a trphy elk in one of the better places for elk. I made a deal with an outfiter to hunt with him about 3 years ago. He wanted $9,999 for the 6 day hunt. NOw that I have the tag, I find out his price has droped to $5,000. But he did not want to tell me that so that I would pay the $10,000. The neighoring property (which is over 50,000 hectars) is also an outffitter with equally impressive elk and I booked with him f0r $4,500.

    I know its tough on the outffiters. Louis gave some great examples of the carying cost of being an outffitter with prime habitat large enough for a good hunting operation. No doubt those a real costs and come out of his pocket befoe he makes a dime. The problem is, I am hit y the recesion just as bad as everyone else. It will be a tough storm to weather and I think the escalating costs are probably a thing of the past.

    But this is essenial - I do not have doom and gloomitiss as Craif Boddington cals it. Africa is still the best value in hunting anywhere in the world. I can hunt 5 animals in RSA for what I can hunt 1 elk in the USA. hat alone will keep a certain number of hunters coming to Africa - that and the fact that huting in Africa is awesome.

    One market driven solution is that the number of outfiters is likly to go down. There are just not enough hunters for the number of PH's, particularly in RSA. SOme of those guys who ae not "the real deal" will not make it. ANd I think that is ok, unless you are the guy who does not make it. But once the market settles and the price reaches equilibrim (mabe we hunters do not need 5-star chefs and every luxury posible for $450/day (I think that aspect of hunting has goten way out of control)) things wil get better. There are things that can be cut from the package without comprimosing the quality of the hunt or bush experieince.

    One thing that excites me is that there are more and more countries opening up to hunting. That will put more price pressure on the industry ut its great for the overal succes of animals in Africa - which means its great for conservation.

    Its a topic that nobodu seemed to want to bring up but now that its out there - maybe the dialogue will generate ideas for how to keep hunters and PH's in the field and poachers at home or in jail wee they belong.

    AS always - I love the thought provoking professionalism of AH and don't bother to read or post anywhere else.

    Thanks Jerome!
  6. Bobpuckett

    Bobpuckett GOLD SUPPORTER AH Legend

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    Ok guys I'm going to jump in here, you all have some very good points. Cleathorn has made some very good points about the cost of hunting other African Countrys and I think that is the very reason a lot of hunters are looking to South Africa for there hunts it dosn't cost hundreds of dollars for your Wife to tag along her clothes get washed in the same load yours dose the room is covered buy your hunt and the food is just dollars a day but as stated by Louis there are other cost as well.
    1 Employing staff the whole year round.
    2 The cost of electricity
    3 Breakages
    4 The costs associated on keeping all the equipment running trucks,tractor,……..
    5 Cost of fencing
    6 Maintaining roads and airstrip
    7 Cost of feed
    8 Insurance
    9 Improvements
    10 Maintenance on structures
    11 Professional services (vet)
    12 Fuel for trucks……
    and I'm sure the list go's on. This is where I think it helps the Outfitter out the little extra for the Wife helps to cover some of these Expenses and allows the game farms to keep there prices a little lower for the not so rich Americans like me to afford a hunting trip to africa...what I'm getting at is Maybe some of these other African Country's need to take a closer look as to how South Africa Operates.
  7. Bobpuckett

    Bobpuckett GOLD SUPPORTER AH Legend

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    Now saying that I'll say this I am the lucky one being retired Military, and if any of you are retired Military or know someone that is you know that when you retire you kiss half of your income goodbye so I have to go with what I can afford, just yesterday the wife and I were on our way to our favorite Japanese restaurant when I ask her if you had to choose going on tour to China and walking on the great wall or going to South Africa whitch would you rather do, she looked at me like I was stupid and said she would love to one day walk on the great wall of China and tour China but if she had to choose one or the other she would go back to South Africa.
  8. sestoppelman

    sestoppelman SILVER SUPPORTER AH Legend

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    Kuduman,

    I dont know what animals you have taken yet but one thing that works is to take a similar hunt as the first and try to better some of the animals you have, for instance kudu. The standard for a good starter kudu is said by most to be 50" and even that can be hard to find at times. Took me 3 tries but finally got a 51 incher in RSA, also in '09 in the Limpopo. What happens with most of us I think is we have a certain "A" list of animals we hope to get, then there is usually one or two that we dont score on and so we go back to get those missed the first or second time. It was that way with me on kudu, bushbuck, hyena, waterbuck and blesbuck even. Got one in RSA after missing a couple in Namibia. Anyway there are all kinds of good reasons to go back to Africa and most here dont require much excuse including me! Going to Zimbabwe in June to try again for a couple of the aforementioned critters. Zim by the way is probably the most reasonable place to go for buffalo should you wish to try for one.
    Some of you may have seen the hunt show on one of the outdoor channels a couple days ago and watched as the hunter faced off his wounded buffalo, and when he pulled the trigger on what should have been his killing shot, there was a very loud CLICK! Out of ammo! The PH put a shot into the buff before it charged and the hunter was lucky enough to get a couple rounds into his gun in time to finish it off. You can see often on these shows where you might hear one or two shots fired at something and in the next scene both the PH and the hunter are filling their magazines, indicating that there is more shooting going on than is shown on camera! A little off your original topic but interesting.
  9. Mike70560

    Mike70560 AH Fanatic

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    So PH's must realize, as a pure statement of fact, that their "average cleint" is not the "average guy" in the US. Its only the very wealthy who can afford these hunts. There is a continuing trend in he United States where the divide between the wealthy and middle clas is growthing larger evey day.


    This is a statement with which I do not agree. I am far from wealthy but have no debt. My wife and I both work. We do not drink or gamble. My truck is almost 10 years old. Acquaintances are always amazed that I am planning my fourth DG hunt in four years. These same people are driving new $55,000 4WD trucks, have $60,000 bass boats, $12,000 tied up in some ATV etc, etc.. BTW I am 47 and my wife has been stuck on 39 for a couple of years. Neither of us graduated from college, nor did our parents who were as middle class as can be.

    Africa has ALWAYS been exclusive. It is far easier to hunt now. Transportation time is far less than it was in the "Golden Era" (whenever that was). Plainsgame hunts in SA and Namibia are bargains. Not everybody can afford to hunt Africa (especially DG) just like I cannot afford a private jet. However, if I really wanted a private jet I would figure out how to get one just like I figured out how to go to Africa.

    The business side of a safari is very interesting to me. IMO $1000.00 per day is a bargain. I can assure you pricing has nor will ever put me at odds with an outfitter. They have to make a living, but if the day comes that I can no longer afford to hunt it will mean I failed to grow my income level enough to satisfy my desires. That would be a sad day.
  10. sestoppelman

    sestoppelman SILVER SUPPORTER AH Legend

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    Mike70560,

    Extremely well said. The American spirit put to words!
  11. enysse

    enysse AH Ambassador

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    I think $1000 a day is fine if you you can hunt the Big 5 in a free range concession. But anything more I do have a problem with....$1500 to $2500+ a day is crazy! I think Mozambique is affordable right now but pretty soon it will be like Tanzania...unaffordable.....I think Zambia is pretty expensive already. And the fact that you have to buy so many days to hunt a Grants gazelle or something is crazy too....and so do a lot of other people that don't post on here. I for the record think there are plenty of affordable hunts in RSA,Namibia, Zimbabwe, and Benin....and Mozambique for the time being....but Uganda, CAR, Tanzania, and Zambia are pricey. And maybe they should be. I think there are a lot of great outfitters!

    I will say in the not so distance past hunting was a hell of lot cheaper in Africa. When I first looked into it in 2002....prices where almost less than 50 percent compared to now....but then again nothing is cheap anymore! When oil soared...everything else went with it!
  12. Frederik

    Frederik AH Enthusiast

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    Couple of very good points but you guys are forgetting one very important thing the CURRENCIES !

    2008 April - it was almost R14/Pound now just below R11
    2009 January - Dollar was R10/USD now just below R7

    This might not affect other hunting countries that much outside Namibia and RSA but it does make a hell of a difference and every outfit is taking a chance when he posts his prices onto his website.

    For 2 years we had our prices posted in Rand only but people were complaining as they struggled to convert !!!!!! So now its back in USD we also had rates in Euro/Pound and USD again people complained since some currencies worked out cheaper or more expensive depending on the rates so its back to USD only.

    I would love to have a pricelist up again in Rand only in that way we dont have to gamble on currencies fluctuating and if the dollar does come up stronger you get the hunt cheaper.

    Another factor to consider is that the local wealth in South Africa and Namibia is rising meaning that there are more local hunters who can afford higher prices.

    In the end all I can say is this if you can make a plan to go and hunt do it dont let it slip another year we dont know what the future holds. If you do make it and come out for a hunt and only find out a year after you could have done it for cheaper dont worry as there is no way you could have gotten the exact same experience all over again its impossible and after all its just money when you die its worth shit.
  13. KMG Hunting Safaris

    KMG Hunting Safaris SPONSOR AH Elite

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    "This is also hurting the industry and making it really tough for others to keep the good reputation of the country in tact? A client comes over get’s his fingers burnt and then leave with the perception that everyone is bad, certainly understandable but it is also hurting us right now."

    I think Louis has answered this thread as well as as he answers all of his threads. I esspecially agree with his statement above.
  14. TOM

    TOM AH Elite

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    This is a very good thread. Thought provoking without being argumentative.

    I think the hunting industry in Africa is on the verge of seeing a "cull" and outfitter numbers will be significantly reduced. I think this will mostly affect RSA outfits, but to a lesser extent it will happen around the continent. I think the outfitters that offer a quality experience at a reasonable price will survive while the other companies will perish.

    There are just so many outfitters jockeying for fewer clients. If this was 2007 and the economy was rolling along, these deals wouldn't be out here and bookings would be more firm. I think the reason we are seeing rock bottom pricing and PAC hunts is that outfitters are sucking air...and for some 2011 might be their last breath. To stay in business the same rules will apply as always apply - Customer service, value for money, and offer a product that people want.

    I think some of the "big hat, no cattle" RSA PH's with a hunting frame and a few leases to hunt will have a tough go of it. Granted, he can be lean and mean in his tactics but he doesn't truly have anything to sell to clients either. That might make him the first to go into town and get another job.

    As for the rest of Africa, i do think $1,500 a day for a dangerous game hunt is too high....for a VAST majority of the hunting public. I think DG outfitters could become even more of a "specialty hunt" in times like this if they stick to prices like that. I have noticed numerous great outfits offering buffalo hunts for under $12k USD. Several under $10k. I think this is a good thing as it allows the market to tighten up and cleanse itself. Plus, i think some of the prices did get out of hand. My outfitter in Tanzania sent me an email and is offering buff hunts for $11,500. And that is Tanzania, so even they are feeling it.

    My point is simple. There are a lot of outfitters looking to book fewer clients in this economy. Some will not make it. The company's that do survive, will have offered great service and value for dollar to their clients. Some dangerous game hunts might become a bit cheaper (buffalo and tuskless ele's) but it's difficult to compare DG hunts and PG hunts....they are just too different.

    I'm not a "doom and gloom" guy. As i've said in posts before, more people are hunting africa than EVER before. I just think we are seeing a market correction that will change the outfitter landscape a bit over the next few years.
  15. KMG Hunting Safaris

    KMG Hunting Safaris SPONSOR AH Elite

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    Tom, I could not agree with you more.
    The cream will rise to the top, and all the rest will go down. This is not necessarily a bad thing, but yeah, you've got it spot on!

    Regards
    Marius Goosen
  16. enysse

    enysse AH Ambassador

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    I think MIke70560, is correct, guys that want to hunt overseas and abroad in North America....have to be thrifty! I drive a 10+ year old truck, my wife a Cobalt...it's our main vehicle to get good gas mileage....we own no boat, atv, snowmobile or such...we ride our bicycles in good weather....and really do enjoy doing the little things in life. My wife loves to sew and I love to hunt. We both make sacrifices in the end to do what we love.

    And I have no problem with people paying top dollar to hunt Stone Sheep in B.C. or bongo in CAR....if I had the money, I would too!

    I'm generally happy about my hunting trips! I have cut back hunting in North America for a lot of reasons! But, I have found a lot of joy in visiting new countries and meeting new people. Every trip is different and unique!

    And I think Tom is correct, the cream will rise to the top and the rest will be out of work. That is the way manufacturing is going in the U.S. too.

    But Thanks to the Outdoor Channel, Sportsman Channel and Wild TV....Africa hunting is meeting more and more people everyday...which gives me hope that hunting will always continue.
  17. Spiral Horn Safaris

    Spiral Horn Safaris AH Fanatic

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    Hi guy’s

    I would have to say that over all things are looking pretty positive bookings have picked up this year in my opinion and I agree with Tom more people are coming to Africa every year I see a lot of 1st time’s posting photo’s and sharing their experiences.

    The whole industry is going to be a better place for all involved but for now there will be some pruning done?

    I sincerely hope that the situation improves for our clients and then it will automatically get better for us.

    I know there would be a lot of people out there who want to hunt large open areas and it is truly a great experience and I wish every client the opportunity! However in saying that we have some pretty decent DG hunting in South Africa as well and most of the operations are asking less than $800 per day?

    We can also look at helping our clients by putting more cull hunts on the table!

    I think it will be to our advantage since more clients will be able to afford to come over more regularly.

    The client would save on taxidermy and shipping costs as well?

    This would be a great opportunity for us to selectively take off certain animals who’s genes we don’t want as well as females and then it would be broadening our client base.

    Kids will then also be able to hunt Africa and this will truly be a good investment for the future of hunting in Africa?

    Just trying to put out some more ideas on how we can help each other?

    Best Regards
    Louis van Bergen


  18. Koedoeberg

    Koedoeberg AH Veteran

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    Louis

    I agree , cull hunts make sense to me . I think every hunter should have a few trophies . Maybe a nice Kudu or waterbuck , a zebra skin and some trophies where it was a great challenge to get the specific animal.

    After that , I think focus on the experience. It can be a challenge and good experience to do a cull hunt . The way the animal was hunted is just as important to me. I like hunting warthogs , impala and Kudu .

    The bigger the challenge The Better . Shooting blesbuck from the bakkie isn't that big challenge.

    I think a client will have a great experience to mix a trophy and cull hunt. His money will go further , he will get some more time in the sun and work for the animals.
  19. davidarizpe

    davidarizpe AH Veteran

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    Zimbabwe, USA, Mexico , Central America, Kyrgysztan, Scotland
    Lets not forget Globalization, just now Iran has opened for America, this was a forbiden destination and also Asian oufittters are going global and are pursuing american customers, the only exception is Us in Mexico that are going down for security reasons but many new places are figthing the same figth and for the same coin.
  20. Bushbuck

    Bushbuck AH Enthusiast

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    A good friend once told me:

    Do you want to know how to make a small fortune in the hunting industry?





    Start with a big one.

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