Another What Gun question???

EDELWEISS

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Im booking a Lion hunt for 2016. I know my 375H&H bolt gun should be sufficient; but Ive never blooded my 470 SxS, so Id sorta like to take that instead. Theres a chance I might add a Buffalo or substitute a Buff if a Lion ban happens. I know either the 375 or the 470 would be fine for the Buffalo; but if its Buffalo instead of Lion, then Id like to take my 577....

Soooooooo is the 470 too much for Lion? 577???
 
Is there such a thing as too much gun when it comes to DG? I don't think so. Having said that, I've never shot at anything that is well know for wanting to exact its revenge upon its assailant......but I do read a lot for whatever that's worth. :rolleyes:

To my understanding, lions are susceptible to the shock of a higher speed bullet. The .470 and .577 lend themselves more to the slower and heavier projecties for maximum penetration. So you might be better off with a .375 shooting say a 250gr bullet at around 2800-2900fps than the big doubles. By no means should you take my word for it however, but perhaps float this particular thought around to see what others say.

I think if I were having to make a decision right now, I'd advise taking the .375 AND one of your doubles to be prepared for whatever transpires.
 
You would be fine with the 470. It's a favorite of many PHs in Africa to carry for DG. Take and shoot straight!
 
Phil +1. Spot on...
 
Don't pretend to be much of a lion killer but have been around a lot of buff and double rifles. As a client our overriding responsibility is to make that first shot count. An experienced double user can consistently make killing shots on buff out to 70 yards or so with open sights. He has to also be willing to pass on that spectacular bull at 100 which offers a marginal shot easily made with a scoped .375 or .416. My sense is that the chance at the average lion can be much more fleeting. If free range over bait, the light is liable to be bad making a scope desirable. If behind a fence, you will be tracking and pushing an ever more irritable and dangerous animal where not being able to take a difficult shot because of open sights will not win you client of the year honors with your PH and tracker. If he can afford one, your PH may carry a big double to stop a charge - our job is to insure one doesn't happen.
 
Don't pretend to be much of a lion killer but have been around a lot of buff and double rifles. As a client our overriding responsibility is to make that first shot count. An experienced double user can consistently make killing shots on buff out to 70 yards or so with open sights. He has to also be willing to pass on that spectacular bull at 100 which offers a marginal shot easily made with a scoped .375 or .416. My sense is that the chance at the average lion can be much more fleeting. If free range over bait, the light is liable to be bad making a scope desirable. If behind a fence, you will be tracking and pushing an ever more irritable and dangerous animal where not being able to take a difficult shot because of open sights will not win you client of the year honors with your PH and tracker. If he can afford one, your PH may carry a big double to stop a charge - our job is to insure one doesn't happen.

Spot on.
 
Personally I'd never go to Africa or anywhere else with only one gun because any of them can suddenly have a problem.

I'd say take the two you are always most comfortable in shooting and shoot the best with.
 
Take the scoped .375 for the first shot, and bring one of your doubles in case you need it for the back-up. The first shot is crucial.
 
Hello EDELWEISS,

Of the rifles you described:
For lion, I'd definitely want the scoped .375 and I'd want 300 grain round nose softs in it.
And, I'd want open sights in case of needing to follow-up plus, either claw mounts or lever rings to quickly remove my scope for same.

For buffalo, I'd want that .470 and loaded with one soft / one solid.

You likely will have to pass up opportunities that would be doable shots with a scoped bolt action but, if you have booked to the right location and hired the right PH, eventually you will get a good crack at your buffalo with the open sighted double.

Cheers,
Velo Dog.
 
For lion, I'd definitely want the scoped .375 and I'd want 300 grain round nose softs in it.

Fully agree.

For buffalo, I'd want that .470 and loaded with one soft / one solid.

Don't agree. If he has access to a scoped .375, there is no reason not to use it first up. For the first shot, the .375 is more than enough gun on Cape Buffalo, any day of the year.
Bring the .470 for backup if you wish. Once things go wrong, this big bore, open sighted rifle will show it's value.
 
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I concur on the scoped 375 for lion. And I find myself agreeing with Marius yet on the other hand I understand the desire to "bloody" the 470 (or the 577).

So definitely take the 375 and one of the doubles. Talk to your PH about having a tracker or someone carry the extra gun so you have it at hand.

You will need to decide on buffalo if it is more important to you to use the double and wait for the right shot, or to get that good first shot in on a great buff that may not be close enough for the double. In a good buff area I would expect you will have close opportunities but those opportunities would be expanded with a scoped rifle.
 
Fully agree.



Don't agree. If he has access to a scoped .375, there is no reason not to use it first up. For the first shot, the .375 is more than enough gun on Cape Buffalo, any day of the year.
Bring the .470 for backup if you wish. Once things go wrong, this big bore, open sighted rifle will show it's value.

Hi KMG Hunting Safaris,

I totally agree with you that a scoped .375 is by reputation very good for buffalo, (especially with today's super tough bullets).

As I mentioned in my previous post, with the .470, a hunter will very likely have to pass up opportunities that if instead armed with his scoped .375, the same situations would have been very doable opportunities.

In fact, I suspect that a scoped .375 is better suited to hunting ANY African animal dangerous or not, than an open sighted .470 double would be, (except possibly for elephant in thick foliage).

In other words, I am not suggesting the .375 is under powered or inferior to a .470 double in any way at all, for buffalo hunting (as if I would really know, since I've never shot a buffalo with my .375 in the first place - LOL.)

I am only suggesting that I really enjoyed hunting my one and only buffalo with a vintage double .450 No2 NE and if I were Mr. EDELWEISS, perhaps planning a buffalo hunt, I'd definitely take that .470 double he mentioned.

Cheers,
Velo Dog.
 
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I think when most of us are old enough to afford to hunt big 5 and buy big caliber
doubles our eyes are not good enough to shoot with iron sights.:(
 
I think when most of us are old enough to afford to hunt big 5 and buy big caliber
doubles our eyes are not good enough to shoot with iron sights.:(
Yup, unfortunately, that 'bout covers it.
 
I think when most of us are old enough to afford to hunt big 5 and buy big caliber
doubles our eyes are not good enough to shoot with iron sights.:(

Hi Peter Larsson,

Sadly, I must agree.
And, it further adds to the fact that one must be prepared to pass up the chance at a buffalo (or name your animal) sometimes, when not using a scope.
So, I have had an oversized white front sight bead installed on my last double and planning same for present one.
Set for a 6 O'Clock hold at 75 paces, so far so good.
Although I freely admit it is no replacement for a scope, not even close.
And, even though I'm blessed with much better eyesight than any of my similarly aged friends (60's) nonetheless I know my iron sight days are numbered.

Youth is wasted on the young.

Cheers,
Velo Dog
 
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Youth is wasted on the young.
Yup, and they don't know it until it is too late.... Age old issue, and one likely to be rarely overcome only by the humblest and wisest of youths.
 
Tried to use the iron sights om my krieghoff the other day
but that didn't work so well.
That's why I'm a bit depressed!
 
Tried to use the iron sights om my krieghoff the other day
but that didn't work so well.
That's why I'm a bit depressed!

I totally understand.
 
If I could only bring one I would bring the 375. If you can bring two take the 375 and which ever double you'd like. If I had it to do over again with both my lion and my buff ( please understand I'm no expert and have only ever hunted and shot 1 lion and 1 buff) I would have just took my 375. I used a 416 which I found pretty ineffective with both. The lion I put 7 shots into all killing shots, I think with a heavier slower moving bullet much of the extra energy didn't help. I've been told on the cats velocity is the real show stopper. On the buff I admittedly pulled the shot a bit and they are just damned tough. Shot placement I feel is absolutely the most vital aspect of the whole deal. So end of the day take what you shoot best. You can hit an animal, especially a buff, with a cannon but if it's not in the right place it's all for not and will be wholly ineffective. On my buff I was off literally a few inches and despite being shot with a 416 ruger the buff took it like a mosquito bite. Just my 2 cents.
 

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