Ammunition Through Amsterdam

Discussion in 'Hunting Africa' started by RmSeale, Jun 15, 2013.

  1. RmSeale

    RmSeale New Member

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    I'll be leaving for my first 21 day Tanzania Safari on August 21. I'll be hunting the Kigosi. I've heard a couple of nightmare stories about ammunition and guns through Amsterdam. The guns I have a handle on, but how should I pack my ammo? I've heard locked case, unlocked case, in your baggage. I can't get a consistent answer from anyone including the airlines. Any advise?
     
  2. postoak

    postoak AH Senior Member

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    I can only tell you what happened to me. On the trip over, I had my ammo in a box in my luggage. No problem with rifle or ammo. On the way back, SA made me pull out my ammo box. In Amsterdam, I was pulled aside by the military police and asked for my paperwork on the rifle and ammo. All I had to show was my form 4457. They told me I had not filled out required Dutch paperwork. (As of now, I haven't investigated what they were talking about.) They said they might have to hold onto the rifle and ammo but after talking to their commanding officer on the phone (probably about sports, lol) they let them go on to my US bound carrier. I'm flying direct to SA next time.
     
  3. RmSeale

    RmSeale New Member

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    Ammo Through Amsterdam

    Thanks so much for passing on your experience. I'm using a service to travel with my guns. I must say that they are pretty good. I've already filled out my Dutch permit and should be OK with that. I was concerned with how to pack my ammo to create the least potential problems. I think an unlocked ammo case in my luggage with a lock ready to go in case the Dutch give me a problem is the way to go. Thanks again.
     
  4. garyleach

    garyleach AH Veteran

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    went thru amsterdam last yr, locked the bullets up in a small tackle box and put in my checked bag, actually 2 of us did it that way, no issues. If its lockable i would just lock and if not, do what we did, thru in a small lockage case and u wont have any issues at all...
     
  5. James.Grage

    James.Grage GOLD SUPPORTER AH Legend

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    I had the permits for my rifle and ammo and it was checked going and coming.

    I had my locked ammo case locked and then locked my bag also.

    smooth as silk. just know your bag claim tags and which bag they are for.

    when returning just leave your ammo in camp it will be used. when asked you just say you shot it up.
     
  6. RmSeale

    RmSeale New Member

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    Thanks to everyone for the great advice!
     
  7. bwana ndege

    bwana ndege AH Member

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    Hi RmSeale,
    There are two ways to go by,
    1) your gun is labeLled all the way trough to your destination and you do not have a stopover in Amsterdam.
    Then you check your gun in as a sporting rifle and stick your ammo in your luggage BUT!! Make sure your luggage is labelled in such a way that the persons handeling it in Amsterdam know it contains ammo.
    If not the automated x ray will set all the bells of.
    This is the easy way.

    The hard way:
    2) you have a stopover in Amsterdam due to bad conection and your luggage is not labelled trough to final destination.
    Then you need a transit liscense for the gun, ammo same as above.

    Travelling out of South Africa they indeed do not want your ammo in your luggage but in separate container locked and labelled separate.
    But heck who brings back ammo anyway.
    All you do before leaving the bush is set up a target and set of a firework show like there is no tomorrow.

    Have a great time in Tanzania, :eek:
     
  8. postoak

    postoak AH Senior Member

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    Very interesting bwanandege but it leads to this question. What do you define as a "stopover"? My rifle and ammo were labeled all the way thru to my point of entry into the U.S. (Atlanta) and The time between my two flights was only 3 hours and yet apparently I was required to have filled out these transit forms.
     
  9. bwana ndege

    bwana ndege AH Member

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    Postoak,
    Haven't heard of this one before. But tell you what I will do.
    Will call the issueing authorIties first thing tomorrow to check out the point you made.
    I will also ask them what the best and quickest way is for you guys to get a transit permit.
     
  10. postoak

    postoak AH Senior Member

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    Thanks, please let me know what they tell you.
     
  11. bwana ndege

    bwana ndege AH Member

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    Hello all,

    As mentioned I would dive into this matter and just got of the phone with the responsible authority, Mr Tromp head of the customs department handeling weapons and ammo.
    I was mistaken and yes you do need a Transit permit for weapons and or ammo when you pass trough amsterdam eventhough you stuff has been labelled trough to Africa.

    It is easy to apply for , fill in the "Application Transitlicence weapons and or ammunition" mail or fax it to them and you should be good.
    Here is the link on which you can find the application :

    www.klm.com/travel/us_en/images/Aanvraagform doorvoer B consent engels_tcm518-221257.pdf

    Hope this will clear this up a bit, if there is even any questions on travelling trough Amsterdam feel free to ask.

    Yours truly, B.N.
     
  12. postoak

    postoak AH Senior Member

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    You don't let the grass grow under your feet, do you? :) I appreciate this information.
     
  13. BRICKBURN

    BRICKBURN SUPER MODERATOR CONTRIBUTOR GOLD BENEFACTOR AH Ambassador

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    Firearms and Ammunition are classified as Dangerous Goods and they are controlled in most countries.

    Foreigners (Non Immigrant Aliens) are technically required to have a transit permit going through the USA too. It does not seem to be enforced and most folks get away without getting one.

    So, each entry into a country with a Dangerous good it would be advisable to determine what you require.

    Thanks for reiterating the rules from the Netherlands (Amsterdam) again.
     
  14. postoak

    postoak AH Senior Member

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    Does anyone know the rules for the U.K.?
     
  15. bwana ndege

    bwana ndege AH Member

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    Eventhough I am not from the Island , this is what I could find on British Airways site:

    Carriage of Firearms and/or Ammunition

    Restrictions and limitations


    All firearms (including replica and decommissioned) and ammunition are restricted under UK law.

    Ammunition (cartridges for weapons, small arms) in Division 1.4S (UN 0012 or UN 0014 only), must be securely packaged and in quantities not exceeding 5 kg (11 lb) gross weight per person for that person's own use, excluding ammunition with explosive or incendiary projectiles. Allowances for more than one passenger must not be combined into one or more packages.

    Notify us before you fly

    You must call one of our contact centres at least 72 hours before your flight if you intend to travel with firearms and/or ammunition. This is to ensure compliance with UK government (or other local government) embargoes and restrictions. Failure to comply with this notification requirement will result in refusal of carriage.

    Notification must include:
    Firearms

    Quantity
    Type (handgun, rifle, shotgun)
    Make/model
    Calibre
    Ammunition

    Quantity (weight) and calibre
    Contact us
    Travelling on British Airways flights operated by other airlines

    If you are planning to make a booking on ba.com that includes a flight operated by an airline other than British Airways, please contact us before booking to check that the other airline is able to carry your firearm.
    Please note: You will not be able to take any firearms, including sporting rifles, on any flights operated by Comair.

    Documentation

    All passengers intending to travel with firearms and/or ammunition must ensure they have the required documentation and licences for their firearms and ammunition. This includes export/import licences and authorisation from local and national authorities.

    Check-in times

    When you travel with firearms and/or ammunition you must be at check-in at least 2 hours before your flight, to allow sufficient time to process the paperwork prior to clearing security.

    (Note: groups or individuals travelling with 10 or more firearms or boxes of ammunition must be at check-in at least 3 hours before their flight.)

    Checking in at London Heathrow
    To check in, proceed to the Assistance Desks located at the end of Zones B/C/D/F/G in Terminal 5 or in Zone G at Terminal 3. Customers in First, Club World and Club Europe should continue to use the respective First and Club check-in zones in Terminals 3 and 5.

    Transferring through London
    If you are transferring through London, you must allow a minimum connecting time of 3 hours between flights.

    Handling Charge

    Each case containing firearms and/or ammunition is subject to a ï½£50 each way charge at check-in. Firearms and ammunition are handled by a specialist third party agent on our behalf; this charge covers their costs.

    Packing firearms

    Firearms and/or ammunition will be accepted provided they are packed in an appropriate carriage case, or if this is not possible, packed securely inside a suitcase with your personal effects. If the firearm and/or ammunition is carried in addition to your free checked baggage allowance, extra bag charges will also apply.

    Packing requirements for South Africa or Italy

    Firearms and ammunition are not allowed in hold luggage with general personal possessions.

    All firearms have to be packed separately from the ammunition and must be in a locked firearms case.

    The ammunition must be separate and in its own locked bag/container.

    In these instances you will not be charged for the extra bag(s) but will be subject to the appropriate handling fee(s).

    Preparing firearms for travel

    Each firearm carried must be accompanied by the appropriate firearms certificate.
    The firearm must be unloaded.
    There will be no additional cost for the carriage of ammunition packed with the firearm*.
    Ammunition must be packed in either its original packaging or in a suitable container that prevents movement between shells or cartridges, i.e. loose ammunition is not permitted.
    Bags with ammunition must not bear 'explosives' labels.
    The Heavy Bag Charge will apply to all bags over 23kg.
    *If ammunition is carried on its own without a firearm, the ï½£50 charge will still apply as special handling for the item is still required.

    End of quote.
    Usualy the Brits will find a way to make things more complicated than they are, at least this is what I experience when I go hunting in UK/ Scotland.

    Regards BN
     
  16. spike.t

    spike.t GOLD SUPPORTER AH Legend

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    sorry its not complicated flying BA and transiting through heathrow and onwards, if you are ticketed all the way through you dont need any transit permits etc. as it states ba needs to know the type /cal etc of firearm and ammo you are travelling with min 72 hrs before hand, but you usually know you are travelling a long time before this. same IATA regs in the ammo dept as most other airlines, max 5kgs and packed in suitable containers including the cartons they come in. for most places the ammo is packed in your suitcase and locked , they explain the countries ie SA and italy where its different. the check in isnt complicated just follow the instructions. i would say it is a lot easier transiting the uk with through tickets on BA than certain other countries. the main one you cant go to with firearms is zimbabwe due to govnt sanctions, so even though BA doesnt fly there any more if you are with them going via SA and your ticket shows zim as end of journey then its a no go.
     
  17. postoak

    postoak AH Senior Member

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    Got it. It sounds as if London, Amsterdam, and Frankfurt are all not too bad.
     
  18. spike.t

    spike.t GOLD SUPPORTER AH Legend

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    postoak the info in bwana ndege post above about check in applies to heathrow, so in usa the BA check in might be different. during transit at heathrow the fireams case and luggage with the ammo in is collected from the incoming flight by people from the security company, and they hold it till its ready for loading onto the onward flight, so the baggage handlers dont touch it apart from unloading and handing to the security people at the airplane. if you are checking in at heathrow at terminal 5 with BA go to the respective desk as stated in the info. the check in person then contacts the security company who come to the check in desk. they take the firearms baggage tags and you go with them with your gun case and the luggage bag containing the ammo to their security room where they scan it and you fill out the form with your address and types of firearm , seat number etc, you get a copy as its like a receipt from them. you then go through the security checks to get airside as this is where you meet up with the security people again at the customs office. this is on the left down a corridor after the security checks. customs then check the ser nos of the firearms and log it in their books along with the destination. you then lock the firearms case and the security people put the firearms baggage tags on the cases ,after this the security people take them off and thats it.
     

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