Ammunition for Cape Buffalo

[CAustin]

Now your talking Pete

 

[Royal27]

Hmm, so when are you visiting and how much space is in your luggage???

I figure 4-5 boxes should pay for my hunt!

Of course I can only bring ammo for the rifle that I bring and I don't have a .404.... So I will go ahead and explain to my wife now why I have to buy one.

 

[CAustin]

Royal I think the 404 is in your future! Ha! It would be an excellent addition to the safe!

 

[PeteG]

I figure 4-5 boxes should pay for my hunt!

Of course I can only bring ammo for the rifle that I bring and I don't have a .404.... So I will go ahead and explain to my wife now why I have to buy one.

Royal I think the 404 is in your future! Ha! It would be an excellent addition to the safe!

You are right on there bud... So far, best reason ever for a new rifle!!

you can even leave the rifle behind... you know, so you dont have to go through the hassle of carting it all the way back home with you

 

[Witold Krzyżanowski]

Hornady isn't cheap for the .404 Jeff here relatively, but you can still get it for $85 per box, so yikes....
As comparison .375 H&H can be had in Hornady for $38 per box.

In Poland, a box of 404Jeffery from Hornady costs about 150$.
A little pricey but a legend costs.
Witold

 

[spike.t]

Hmm, so when are you visiting and how much space is in your luggage???

me to me to !!!!

 

[ActionBob]

I think the answer to the question of why some are happy with Hornady DGX and others are not is the same as the age old story of hunting... Just simple old good luck! There does seem to be a bit less consistency in the Hornady bullets, so luck in having a good one go into your buffalo. Then also the good luck of it perhaps missing the real tough parts/bones and getting into the vitals before breaking up. Then on top of luck is simple expectations... Obviously @CAustin had the simple expectation of a dead critter! Others have expectations of a dead critter and a perfectly mushroomed bullet that retained a very high percentage of it's weight and penetrated deeply.

From my perspective, guys like Charlie and others made good shots and killed their critters so have no complaints... But with all the better performing bullets available today, why take a chance? The ammo you hunt with is of vital importance to your success, but very cheap compared to almost everything else!

I do agree with TSX, A Frame, Trophy bonded Bear Claw... Not sure why one would not use one of these three. I'm sure there are others but these are proven over and over to perform superbly. And you can almost always get one of them to regulate with a top quality solid. Having hunted buffalo with a 416 loaded with 400 one grain A Frame and backed by 400 grain Woodleigh hydro solids... Doing it over I would load two of the A Frames, then solids. Or all TSX's, which I used a 525 grain to devastating result out of my 505 Gibbs on my second buff.

And now Swift is loading their line of factory ammo in the newer calibers like 375 Ruger, and the old 404 Jeff, so there are other options that have better reputations than Hornady. and yes, I too have used a lot of Hornady ammo on PG and in the US with great results... Really love some of their ammo! However I would only use it on DG as a last resort.

 

[gizmo]

I was going to not post but I feel that not doing so isn't fair to you. I am one of many that had horrible luck with DGS/DGX ammo. I am a Hornady fan but I will NEVER, and I don't use the word lightly, use that line against anything dangerous again. 20-40$ per box difference between Hornady DG series and good reliable ammo is a cheap price to pay when your life depends on it and your spending a total investment of 20k or so. I almost lost a buff (I had a lot of responsibility for a bad shot on that) and could have very well been eaten by my lion (all of which were perfect shot placement) as result of that ammo. The thin skinned/boned lion took 7 yes 7 shots to kill from a 416, 5 softs and 2 solids, from Hornady DGX/S ammo. I have previously posted much on this but will briefly do so again. The 5 bullets recovered from my lion (4 softs and 1 solid) were nothing more than scrap metal. The solid was the best performing with the highest weight retention (which was completely unacceptable from a solid for it to mushroom like it did and still loose weight).
Solid, best of the bullets recovered

Best of the softs, very little weight retention

Worst of the softs, extremely low weight retention

All five recovered bullets from the lion

 

[Desperatezulu]

why take a chance? The ammo you hunt with is of vital importance to your success, but very cheap compared to almost everything else!

I do agree with TSX, A Frame, Trophy bonded Bear Claw... Not sure why one would not use one of these three. I'm sure there are others but these are proven over and over to perform superbly.

This is the punch line!

"Good enough" may be fine for PG but with DG that aint the case - saving money on bullets is a false economy.

 

[Foxi]

Gizmo,do you have an idea,because I have so good results ?
My buffs was weighing 4-5x so much as your lion.
Greetings

 

[gizmo]

Gizmo,do you have an idea,because I have so good results ?
My buffs was weighing 4-5x so much as your lion.
Greetings

Hi Foxi, I'm not sure I understand what your asking but as far as why they failed I believe that the bullet design cannot handle the velocity of the new 416/375 rugers. In a slower load they may be ok but still wouldn't be willing to find out.

 

[Royal27]

Hi Foxi, I'm not sure I understand what your asking but as far as why they failed I believe that the bullet design cannot handle the velocity of the new 416/375 rugers. In a slower load they may be ok but still wouldn't be willing to find out.

And here is the scariest part to me. This is Hornady FACTORY ammo that is being discussed here and not some hot handload that went past the manufacturer's intended speed.

Non premium bullets (which I consider DGX/DGS to be) that have a tendency to break up and not hold their weight may still have a place, but not for thick skinned dangerous game. Will they work some and maybe even most of the time? Maybe.... But... So would a .30/06.... Anyone want to go buffalo hunting with their deer rifle? They aren't legal for buff in most, if not all, areas for a good reason now. Even though they were used "successfully" in the past.

 

[gizmo]

I use them for hog hunting now and that's it

 

[ActionBob]

Ok I've posted these before but here are pics of how I think bullets should look. On the left is a Hornady Interbond out of a 6.5 Creedmoor coming out of the tube at 2950, Interbond is Hornady's bonded bullet so the tougher one. This caliber and bullet is a favorite of mine for small to medium PG like Springbuck and Pronghorn, especially at long range. It is worthless on things like a monkey which it will blow apart, did not want to use it on klipspringer as I'm sure it would have destroyed the cape. Shot a red hartebeest with a good one shot kill that blew through the front shoulders and sprayed blood out the other side. In my opinion, for a bonded bullet, this is pretty busted up.

Then in the middle is a 300 grain Trophy Bonded Bear clar out of my M70 375 H&H, factory premium Federal ammo. entered a male lion facing at a slight angle, entered between the left side of the neck and shoulder through the mane, skinner dug it out of the right rear hip. So it traversed the length of that cat, mushroomed perfectly, penetrated several feet, and held together. Then on the right is a 525 grain TSX out of a big old mud encrusted buffalo. Took a shot I would not have with less gun or less bullet. Quartering away to the left, So rumen side, not a shot to take without having confidence.. But I felt I had a good line to the front of the opposite shoulder, I think I'm pretty capable on envisioning the intended bullet path and I could see in my minds eye, that bullet going right through the vitals. I was up a bit higher than the bull as well so intened a downward path.

In any case, that TSX went through about 8 inches of rumen, through the chest and lungs, the right shoulder and stuck against the skin in front of the shoulder. There was a nasty wound channel you could stick your fist and arm through. It laid him right out in short order and he was letting out a death bellow long before we got to him. So again, a bullet that expanded perfectly, penetrated several feet of muddy buffalo, and held together.... Why use anything questionable when such great performance is available so cheaply?

Compare these bullets to others pictured on this thread. Make your decision, keep in mind that your life as well as several others could rest on this decision you make so don't make it lightly or try to save a few bucks. Those 505 Gibbs loads list for close to $20/round but I got them on closeout for $5, the Federal 375 was proably less than $5... $5 bullets, over $50,000 safari... Just sayin', even $20 loads are cheap in comparison And what is your life worth?

 

[Jono Joseph]

I would always suggest Peregrine 300gr VGR-3 We have had very good results with peregrine.
But as long as you are shooting a premium bullet with good weight retention you will be fine.
Shot placement and being comfortable with your rifle are just as important too.

Practice shooting from the "sticks" so that you are confident with them before your arrive it just makes it easier.

Shot Shot

 

[gizmo]

I'm not trying to be over dramatic but you have to look at it as that you are going into combat. Would you take inferior equipment into combat if given the choice? Would you take take something into combat that you know has the potential for failure at least a percent of the time?
Like I said Im not trying to be overly dramatic but if you think for one second that hunting dangerous game isn't as serious as dick cancer than your fooling yourself and shouldn't be doing it. Not every DG hunt is going to end in some dramatic charge and death defying situation but it damn sure could. People pull shots occasionally and it happens to everyone no matter who you are. The guy that says I never miss is the guy who has never hunted. With that knowledge of what could go wrong I want the odds stacked in my favor as much as possible. That's only accomplished through training, physical and mental preparation, and the absolute best equipment I can get my hands on.
Just my 2 cents

 

[Divernhunter]

I have always looked at it, and told others, that the bullet is the cheapest part of the hunt trip and the one thing that actually determines if you kill the animal you are shooting.
So a bullet or cartridge which would cost even $10 per round is still cheap compared to the total cost of a hunt.
Years ago I had a friend who went on a guided elk hunt. Cost $5800 + tip, new sleeping bag $300, gas to drive to Montana from Calif (forgot what they spent but several hundred dollars), two weeks off work and self employed so no Vacation pay, Etc AND he was complaining about buying new brass(my suggestion) and the extra cost of Nosler Partition bullets for his custom 300Weatherby he spent over $1500 on. Just how STUPID is that??

I have used cup and core(Rem/Hornady/Speer/Nosler BT) bullets for our small deer and pronghorns here in the USA. BUT most of the time I prefer Nosler partition or better.

We used Swift A-Frame bullets for our PG trip. I will use them and maybe Scirocco's in 2017 when I return for more PG.

One more thing and this is even for PG. You want ammo that ALWAYS goes boom when you put the trigger!

 

[matt85]

there has been some excellent advice given by people with experience in this thread!

excellent bullets:
- Swift A-frame 300gr
- Barnes TSX 270gr (I prefer lighter with mono-metal)
- North Fork 300gr soft
- Woodleigh 300gr Soft
- Woodleigh 350gr soft
- Nosler 300gr partition (not my favorite, but ive seen them work very well on buffalo)

ive been playing with Peregrine bullets lately but haven't tested them on game yet. I wouldn't be against trying them on a buffalo in the 270gr range.

-Matt

 

[WildRose]

I have always looked at it, and told others, that the bullet is the cheapest part of the hunt trip and the one thing that actually determines if you kill the animal you are shooting.
So a bullet or cartridge which would cost even $10 per round is still cheap compared to the total cost of a hunt.
Years ago I had a friend who went on a guided elk hunt. Cost $5800 + tip, new sleeping bag $300, gas to drive to Montana from Calif (forgot what they spent but several hundred dollars), two weeks off work and self employed so no Vacation pay, Etc AND he was complaining about buying new brass(my suggestion) and the extra cost of Nosler Partition bullets for his custom 300Weatherby he spent over $1500 on. Just how STUPID is that??

I have used cup and core(Rem/Hornady/Speer/Nosler BT) bullets for our small deer and pronghorns here in the USA. BUT most of the time I prefer Nosler partition or better.

We used Swift A-Frame bullets for our PG trip. I will use them and maybe Scirocco's in 2017 when I return for more PG.

One more thing and this is even for PG. You want ammo that ALWAYS goes boom when you put the trigger!

I would avoid the Swift Scirocco. I was terribly disappointed in their performance on my trip. They are too soft and overexpand and won't track straight through. I was really disappointed because they shoot so well but performance on game was just terrible.

We very nearly lost my Blue Wildebeest hit perfectly but he still managed to run a total of probably 400m and the light was fading when he was shot. Fortunately he ran into the setting sun and I was able to see the dust kicking up all three times he went down so I was able to head straight for him while the others followed the very minimal blood trail. Another 15-20 minutes later and we would have lost him. The bullet entered the crease between the neck and left shoulder, penetrated maybe 8" and then turned nearly ninety degrees to exit high on the shoulder. Strangest bullet track I've ever seen!

I shot them out of a .300wm on my first several animals and quickly switched to some factory ammo loaded with the Perigrine VRG-4 recommended by a friend there. Performance with these was outstanding.

I also had issues with bullet breakup shooting the Hornady .375Ruger DGX . The DGS did not group well for me. Everything shot with them went down and died quickly but I wasn't pleased with the separation of the cup and core.

 

[WildRose]

I have always looked at it, and told others, that the bullet is the cheapest part of the hunt trip and the one thing that actually determines if you kill the animal you are shooting.
So a bullet or cartridge which would cost even $10 per round is still cheap compared to the total cost of a hunt.
Years ago I had a friend who went on a guided elk hunt. Cost $5800 + tip, new sleeping bag $300, gas to drive to Montana from Calif (forgot what they spent but several hundred dollars), two weeks off work and self employed so no Vacation pay, Etc AND he was complaining about buying new brass(my suggestion) and the extra cost of Nosler Partition bullets for his custom 300Weatherby he spent over $1500 on. Just how STUPID is that??

I have used cup and core(Rem/Hornady/Speer/Nosler BT) bullets for our small deer and pronghorns here in the USA. BUT most of the time I prefer Nosler partition or better.

We used Swift A-Frame bullets for our PG trip. I will use them and maybe Scirocco's in 2017 when I return for more PG.

One more thing and this is even for PG. You want ammo that ALWAYS goes boom when you put the trigger!

Absolutely. The one place NOT to try and save money is when purchasing ammo!

Too many a hunt has been spoiled by cheap ammo.