African price wars!

Royal you have to post credit where credit it due. Jaco was the first one to bring this distraction to our attention. You must give proper credit!

As I think about it....

What I should have said is, @Jaco Strauss , I hate to rub your own words in your face, but...... :K Booby:
 
Bwahahaha show them to me, show them to me!
 
Jaco, facts are facts, yes the pumps work on higher cost, but to a common ratio, we paying a lot less now than we did in 2014. Stop always trying to reply with snide remarks, doesn't work with me. I work on facts not thumb suck.
 
When an outfitter receives payment in $$$ US then he should only convert that $$$ to rand as needed. If he anticipates visiting the US for shows, hold some US Dollars for those shows. In other words.... if all USD paid for hunting are converted to rand at the time of receipt then you my friend have entered the world of international monetary speculation, a danagerous world... to say the least. Many years ago when the Japanese yen was much stronger than the US Dollar, they were buying up realestate and anything else for a 25-30 per cent discount due to the the monetary Exchange rate, does Pebble Beach ring a bell. A weak currency in one country always draws a strong currency to that country due to the purchasing power of the strong currency, for that countrys goods and services. Domestically produced goods and services always benefit, less any amount that would be inflationary to replace those goods and services.Econ 101.. The "depreciation" of the rand comparing fuel cost is not very valid when you are exchanging like kind currency.But in 2014 13.43..10 rand to the dollar 1.342.USD to the liter, your are receiving USD for goods and services as an outfitter. TODAY that 12.43 per liter ..15 rand to the dollar 83 cents per liter .50 USD less due to rand exchange per liter approx 1.80 per US gallonUSD LESS than in 2014....
 
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When an outfitter receives payment in $$$ US then he should only convert that $$$ to rand as needed. If he anticipates visiting the US for shows, hold some US Dollars for those shows. In other words.... if all USD paid for hunting are converted to rand at the time of receipt then you my friend have entered the world of international monetary speculation, a danagerous world... to say the least. Many years ago when the Japanese yen was much stronger than the US Dollar, they were buying up realestate and anything else for a 25-30 per cent discount due to the the monetary Exchange rate, does Pebble Beach ring a bell. A weak currency in one country always draws a strong currency to that country due to the purchasing power of the strong currency, for that countrys goods and services. Domestically produced goods and services always benefit, less any amount that would be inflationary to replace those goods and services.Econ 101..

This makes the most sense to me. Seems like most African countries have a lot of risk / volatility in their home currency. So, why wouldn't one hold a lot of the payment in USD or Euros and only convert when needed and pay the wire fees at that time?
 
There's no need to be rude. No hunter who's ever hunted with me has ever given me the impression that hunting in SA was anything but a great experience.

I do have to apologize in that I read "the" prime destination when you actually said "a" prime destination.

I took it that you were insinuating that other places were not as good, when I'm pretty sure that if you asked most hunters what the premier safari destination for them would be, if money was no object... A lot would say an old school Tanzania type of experience. Or any of the other remaining real wild places.

When I made the Wal Mart comment, I was thinking more in the realm of it being the biggest, most convenient. Not the most challenging or remote.

And face it, South Africa is the low price leader of hunting!
 
I was called a thief in a slightly different way because of my pricing,
Jaco those are your words not mine.. I merely pointed out that I disagree in how you look at the accounting. And put up examples of my math. Your quoted fuel price comparisons have been corrected by a few other people on this thread as well.

I'm still puzzled why you started the thread. It appears you were complaining that when you converted Rand to UDS, it worked against you. I and others took issue with the one sided view you took on that analogy and pointed out that the exchange rate works both ways and more to your favor than against. If you can't stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen.
 
Major yes, prime? Wal Mart is a very big shopping destination, but I've never heard it refured to as prime.

You disappoint me AB... 99% of the time I look forward to your productive posts and insight. This is the 1% that came a across as a cheap swipe...Intentional or not. Backpedaling on your comment makes it look even worse IMO. Those who read your posts know your preferred hunting destinations and styles, and good for you. But those types of safaris are not in the wheel house of the vast majority of safari clients.
 
I do have to apologize in that I read "the" prime destination when you actually said "a" prime destination.

I took it that you were insinuating that other places were not as good, when I'm pretty sure that if you asked most hunters what the premier safari destination for them would be, if money was no object... A lot would say an old school Tanzania type of experience. Or any of the other remaining real wild places.

When I made the Wal Mart comment, I was thinking more in the realm of it being the biggest, most convenient. Not the most challenging or remote.

And face it, South Africa is the low price leader of hunting!

Apology accepted. I was reacting to the cheap shot that South Africa wasn't a prime destination like it was implied Zambia was. I live in Africa and have been too all southern African countries. Love them all, they truly each have their own special magic. There's great places too hunt and not so great places to hunt everywhere. Wild places everywhere, lots of wild places in South Africa. South Africa's hunting is cheaper only for the reason that there's more game and more competition. More people and more entrepreneurs too create a business. I don't understand what all the fighting is about...let's talk hunting, rifles, something that doesn't divide us.
 
With all due respect . . . we used to have an expression for this type of argument when I was younger. It involved a bunch of guys sitting in a circle . . .

Maybe it's because I don't earn or spend US$ except on hunts (and my kids' educations!) that the whole argument about exchange rates seems specious to me. Exchange rates will be what they will be, and the only thing we know is that they will change. There will be winners and losers, and most of us will likely be a bit of both at the same time. It makes no sense to hire an economist and spend good money to try to figure out where exactly you are on balance. Because that's what you'd have to do. And frankly, if you hire an economist, you've already lost.

If I may be so bold, what this comes down to is market segmentation, as I've mentioned before. Some will price hunts at a higher price, and offer more; some at a lower price, and will offer less. If you know where you want to be, and you know your market, you can manage your costs and efficiently and profitably run a business.

Yes, there will be some who will offer what you are offering at below cost. (In most businesses, that's called China.) You need to ignore those people, because they won't be around for too long. Yes, you might lose something in the short term, but remember, you're (supposed to be) here for the long term. People who offer the lowest cost hunts in a market like South Africa where animals have a reasonably readily ascertainable market value will have to cut somewhere - quality of areas, of food, of lodging, of animals, etc. That will become known, and those hunters who you are chasing will learn, and will gravitate towards the quality they want at the price that fits.

That doesn't mean that those who will buy the highest price hunts don't care about money. You don't get money by not caring about it, or about value. For example, I paid a relatively high trophy fee a couple of years ago to hunt buffalo in South Africa. ($14,000, for those who want to know). I could've gone somewhere else, which would charge me based on horn size, or shoot an animal specially brought in for the purpose, or be on a small piece of land, etc. but I chose this outfitter because they had a great property, a large number of buffalo on that property, all of which had been born there and roamed as freely as you can on more than 50 square miles, and it was up to me to decide which animal I wanted. It took us three days to get that, and my PH stayed my had twice during that time, saying "we can do better." Ultimately, we had a great tracking job, a great stalk, four hours of patience and then taking the buff. 43 inches, if it matters (see avatar for picture). Some would have offered me a cheaper hunt, provided the buffalo was less than a certain size. I don't like that type of game, so I don't buy those hunts. I was looking for value, and I got it. I didn't want what those who were charging materially less were offering.

Spend you time and money on those you want to attract. Manage your costs. Hire good people and pay them appropriately. Practice ethical hunting. Offer real value at whatever price point you choose.

You'll be in business forever.
 
Apology accepted. I was reacting to the cheap shot that South Africa wasn't a prime destination like it was implied Zambia was. I live in Africa and have been too all southern African countries. Love them all, they truly each have their own special magic. There's great places too hunt and not so great places to hunt everywhere. Wild places everywhere, lots of wild places in South Africa. South Africa's hunting is cheaper only for the reason that there's more game and more competition. More people and more entrepreneurs too create a business. I don't understand what all the fighting is about...let's talk hunting, rifles, something that doesn't divide us.

Thanks Victor.

I think another reason, beyond the shear numbers of outfitters and game that South Africa is a lower cost destination for many is that it has the most infrastructure. It is relatively easy to fly to, and once there it is very easy to get around within the country. Many of the costs that the client pays but the outfitter may not be directly involved with. There are commercial flights near to almost any hunting area so not a lot of need for expensive charters, and the main roads are good and you even have freeways or express ways. Heck a client or tourist can rent a car and get around himself. Pretty difficult to do that in many other African Countries, and probably ill advised... Yet the lack of those things is a large part of the attraction for many of us to some of the other countries.
 
I'm heading off to get some perspective and visit my Uncle.

The only way he has ever seen Africa is through my pictures.

Here are some sunrises and sunsets from across Southern Africa. You decide what the value is. :)

Port Alfred
P1000399.jpeg


Naudes Nek
IMG_8324.jpeg


Otjiwarongo Sunrise
SUNP4619.jpeg



Waterburg
IMG_1733.jpeg


Muzenberg
IMG_5632.jpeg


Ghanzi Sunset
IMG_1308.jpeg


Kalahari Sunset
IMG_2199.jpeg


Niassa Sunrise
IMG_8462.jpeg


Hluhluwe Morning Mist
IMG_5016.jpeg


Packing away the rifle.
IMG_6068.jpeg
 
I'm heading off to get some perspective and visit my dying Uncle in the hospital.

The only way he has ever seen Africa is through my pictures. So I am loading them onto another computer to see if I can give him some joy before he departs this life.

Here are some sunrises and sunsets from across Southern Africa. You decide what the value is. :)

Port Alfred
View attachment 55756

Naudes Nek
View attachment 55759

Otjiwarongo Sunrise
View attachment 55760


Waterburg
View attachment 55763

Muzenberg
View attachment 55765

Ghanzi Sunset
View attachment 55770

Kalahari Sunset
View attachment 55772

Niassa Sunrise
View attachment 55775

Hluhluwe Morning Mist
View attachment 55761

Packing away the rifle.
View attachment 55762
Wow brick breathtaking. I'll be praying for you uncle. Hopefully he'll get to spend many days in splendor of Africa once once he leaves you.
 
I'm heading off to get some perspective and visit my dying Uncle in the hospital.

The only way he has ever seen Africa is through my pictures. So I am loading them onto another computer to see if I can give him some joy before he departs this life.

Here are some sunrises and sunsets from across Southern Africa. You decide what the value is. :)

Port Alfred
View attachment 55756

Naudes Nek
View attachment 55759

Otjiwarongo Sunrise
View attachment 55760


Waterburg
View attachment 55763

Muzenberg
View attachment 55765

Ghanzi Sunset
View attachment 55770

Kalahari Sunset
View attachment 55772

Niassa Sunrise
View attachment 55775

Hluhluwe Morning Mist
View attachment 55761

Packing away the rifle.
View attachment 55762



Priceless...
 
If things get bad we can always hook up at the Jansenville pub an chat about our sheep :whistle:

Dave

Let's do that anyway, been awhile since we chatted about sheep :)

Victor Watson
Karoo Wild Safaris


:E Hmmm:.....now dave any chance you two have a lot of kiwi and welsh clients?..........:A Whistle:.....:E Rofl:........apologies to all the kiwis and any welsh if there are any on here , just couldnt resist :D Cheers:
 
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Hank2211
"With all due respect . . . we used to have an expression for this type of argument when I was younger. It involved a bunch of guys sitting in a circle . . ."

I could not resist. Where I come from we used to stand up.
 
My point being, albeit mistaken as fuel prices apparently have dropped was that already expensive fuel prices in RSA if even more expensive, would offset the gain obtained by pricing the hunts in U.S. dollars.

The same would be true for any supplies required to conduct the safari if those supplies were being imported and paid for with a weakening Rand, i.e. it's called inflation. How those inflated prices would be offset by the hunts being paid for in U.S. dollars I don't know, I don't have the numbers. But I don't believe that it's a one to one correlation.
Sorry guys but gasoline does not play much of a factor in DG hunts that go from $50-$100K.
I don't care what the costs are at 16-1 they are making a killing on these safaris. Don't try to convince me otherwise!
Philip
 

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