.458B&M / Cutting Edge Bullets / Tracks Across Africa

[PHOENIX PHIL]

In the last few weeks Tracks Across Africa had two shows entitled Beau Knows Big Stuff Pt 1 and 2. Beau was using a .458B&M loaded with Cutting Edge Bullets. The lion kill was particularly impressive.

 

[PaulT]

Phil regrettably, we don't get "tracks" down here but have heard from all the "gang" that it was quite an impressive performance from Beau, the .458 B&M AND the C.E.B's !, especially so on that lion.

If you needed any reassurance on your selection of the .458 B&M then i'm sure this went a LONG way to provided it.

I'm hoping Mike can get me a copy and send it down to me.

Cheers,

P.T.

 

[Royal27]

I don't want one of those guns then. They make you bleed a lot.... ; )

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

I have it on my DVR and no clue how to transfer it to DVD, or else it would already be on the way. I tell ya, the lion just rolled over and twitched, never saw an animal do that. As I know you've heard from the first episode, the scope was set just a bit too far back. On the lion kill, Beau was up on the scope also. Just before the shot, I said to my son, "watch this, the lion will not be the only one bleeding." But wow, I didn't know how right I'd be. Poor guy was gushing it pretty good, but took it like a man.

How'z it going for you my friend? Settled into the new gig yet?

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

I don't want one of those guns then. They make you bleed a lot.... ; )

Yes you do, you just want to make sure you set the scope up properly. The hunter had it set by someone else and apparently hadn't shot it before he got to Zim.

 

[Royal27]

Of course I do Phil!!!!

Funny that we posted about the scope kiss at the same time. And you're right, he got hit hard on the lion shot, but never even stopped talking to wipe off the blood. That's a hunter!!!

 

[PaulT]

Royal, Phil is right.
The scope was set for Beau by someone else and in his bench testing and practice before the hunt it did not translate into the issue it did during the hunt.
In saying that, we must hand it to Beau for some incredible rifle handling skills and accurate shooting DESPITE taking a beating !
I take my hat off to him !

I have not actually seen the footage myself, only had it described to me by several in the know and the description is remarkably similar to the results I've seen on several buffalo after being hit by C.E.B's who remain on the feet, unable to move in any direction and almost seemingly unable to fall over, trembling and shaking until they "topple" over. A couple of times I've been tempted to go up and push them over as they appear totally incapable of any movement whatsoever.

All going good my friend, just about to re-enter the "real" world again !!

Cheers,

P.T.

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

Of course I do Phil!!!!

Funny that we posted about the scope kiss at the same time. And you're right, he got hit hard on the lion shot, but never even stopped talking to wipe off the blood. That's a hunter!!!

Early in my days with a high powered rifle, I traded a piece of crap .270 in for my first 7mm Mag. I was on my own in those days, had to learn everything myself. I did the same thing, though the cut wasn't so bad. It knocked me a bit silly, but being 23 at the time, it wasn't going to stop me. I didn't even know I was bleeding until someone asked me if I was okay and pointed out to me the blood running down my nose. I've had a few close calls since then, but no open wounds thankfully.

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

All going good my friend, just about to re-enter the "real" world again !!

Not sure whether to be happy or sad for you about that, best wishes however!

 

[PaulT]

Have no fears nor regrets for me, Phil.

I was blessed to have lived a charmed life and enjoy the experiences many will never know for more than a decade. Something that no-one can take for me.

Sadly, hunting opportunities are closing fast in many areas of the globe, I happened to be effected by one of them, which is obviously a tradgedy, but a lot easier to cope with than the very cruel cards of ill health and real missfortunes of life that some are dealt.

All is good, I will survive !

 

[Royal27]

Paul,

I honestly thought that lion was spined the way he dropped and just twitched, like Phil said. After reading this I'm even more impressed, with both the caliber, the bullet, and Beau!

Oh, and useless side note. I was at Mjanga camp right before that hunt and heard lions roar from camp the last couple of nights we were there. The zebra I took was going to be used for bait for that hunt although I don't know for sure
that it was. They did show a Zebra bait being hung for the leopard and I've wondered if it was mine. I will never know, but I get a kick out of silly little stuff like that.

 

[PaulT]

"I honestly thought that lion was spined the way he dropped and just twitched, like Phil said. After reading this I'm even more impressed, with both the caliber, the bullet, and Beau".

DON'T do it Royal, stay away from the B&M range of rifles AND the C.E.B bullets.

Everyone will tell you that for a rifle to perform and function properly it MUST have a 24" barrel and weigh 10lbs, AND that only the traditional round nose bullets that do not fragment and have NOT been tested in wet newsprint will penetrate and kill animals cleanly .

Outside of those parameters, well, it's simply blasphemous

 

[Royal27]

LOL!!!

Well, I did just buy a Lott last fall, so it will be a while. But, I saw Phil's at DSC last year and loved it....

I am going to try some CEB bullets in the Lott at some point. Shame I won't be able to use them in Africa until probably 2018 though...

 

[PaulT]

"I am going to try some CEB bullets in the Lott at some point. Shame I won't be able to use them in Africa until probably 2018 though..."

Whenever you're ready give me a shout, I have a lot of pressure tested loading data for the Lott that will save you a lot of time and testing.

 

[Royal27]

"I am going to try some CEB bullets in the Lott at some point. Shame I won't be able to use them in Africa until probably 2018 though..."

Whenever you're ready give me a shout, I have a lot of pressure tested loading data for the Lott that will save you a lot of time and testing.

Thanks Paul!!!!

I will definitely take you up on the offer!!!

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

DON'T do it Royal, stay away from the B&M range of rifles AND the C.E.B bullets.

Everyone will tell you that for a rifle to perform and function properly it MUST have a 24" barrel and weigh 10lbs, AND that only the traditional round nose bullets that do not fragment and have NOT been tested in wet newsprint will penetrate and kill animals cleanly .

Outside of those parameters, well, it's simply blasphemous

LOL Paul, you're stirring the pot mate! I'm actually not yet bitten by doing another B&M yet. I just don't see, which includes Michael saying the same thing, how it get any better than this of all the various B&M calibers. Recoil is stout, but manageable and pushing any heavier a bullet or faster just seems like a case of more is just more, not better.

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

Now having said that Paul, those offerings from VC were catching my eye at SCI.......

 

[Royal27]

Question Phil (or Paul),

I just saw that Beau's hunt is on the B&M site and I saw that he use the 420 grain raptor and the 450 grain solid. I seem to remember you stating you use the 420s as well.

Just curious why the 420 instead of the 470? Obviously the 420 is DEVASTATING!!!! Is it as simple as that? You just don't need anymore and it shoots flatter? Or is there another reason?

I'm new to the .458s as you know and just wouldn't have even thought of using anything other than a 500.

 

[PaulT]

Speaking in context Phil, if we assume you are loading with C.E.B's, North Forks, G.S Customs etc and bullets of this "ilk" I agree there is little gained in going any bigger unless you have a specific need, or purpose.

As you know, my own choice was the big Daddy, the .500MDM, and was/am extremely satisfied with the complete rifle/bullet package, but of course unless you need to employ a firearm as back-up in extreme circumstances, or are dealing with Elephant on a daily basis, such a cartridge is really not needed.

Your .458 mated with say the 9.3 would make an awesome all-round, do anything rifle combo for Africa, or anywhere else for that matter.
There is an excellent little 9.3 B&M for sale at the moment from Coyote Wacker who is swapping over to left hand rifles to suit his dominant eye issues.

Regarding V.C's I've been extremely pleased with the performance and handling of my own .500 double, that they manufactured, and in 2014 was able to bring down two buffalo, in separate and isolated incidents, with it at distances in excess of 100yds !!! and i'm no crack shot which says a LOT about the way their guns handle !!!!!! Excellent guns and my only complaint is that it COULD have been another 1/2lb lighter. Otherwise excellent in all respects and can highly recommend a Verney Carron built double.

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

Question Phil (or Paul),

I just saw that Beau's hunt is on the B&M site and I saw that he use the 420 grain raptor and the 450 grain solid. I seem to remember you stating you use the 420s as well.

Just curious why the 420 instead of the 470? Obviously the 420 is DEVASTATING!!!! Is it as simple as that? You just don't need anymore and it shoots flatter? Or is there another reason?

I'm new to the .458s as you know and just wouldn't have even thought of using anything other than a 500.

Bit of a long winded answer, so bear with me. As an engineer, I rarely just take someone's word for something. Even amongst people who I have had interaction with and they've proven to me that they're knowledgeable on the particular subject. It just comes from my personality and as we sometimes say in the office, "In God We Trust, All Others Bring Data." I'm just to one degree or another, skeptical on things like shooting/reloading until I've seen things for myself.

But this is one time there was an exception made. Michael McCourry has put in more trigger time in his own shooting facility in the last few years than most people will put in during their lifetimes. He has the data to back up all of his assertions. Michael is not an engineer, but he would have made a very good one. His experiments from my point of view make sense.

But that's not the end of it. Shooting into wet paper, or gel or anything else has it's place. But the truth in the end is how it performs in the field. Between Michael's and Paul's time in the field (as well as many others), the whole system just works and works extremely well from everything I've gathered.

Now a less verbose answer may simply be that the 470gr version of the CEB may be getting a bit long for the twist rate of the rifle. Remember these are pure brass bullets and thus will be a bit longer than a lead version.