.458 Lott advise

Discussion in '.375 & Up' started by Rob 458, Oct 24, 2011.

  1. Mishigun

    Mishigun AH Member

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    Hi, Rob 458.
    Congratulations on your new toy.
    A lot of things that had been said here is true. The Lott is a lot of gun. But, you do not have to be afraid of it. If the stock fits you well, and, if the rifle is not too light, you can handle it. If you handload, try to stick to the .458 Win Mag velocities (around 2050-20100 fps). The inventor of the cartridge did not mean to invent a bigger and more powerful bruiser, Jack Lott just wanted to have the cartridge that could perform up to the desired ballistics of the Win Mag. It is true, that the Lott cartridge can do much better than the Win Mag. But, if the rifle is too light, it will hurt. And, when you do not get much pleasure after the shooting session, why do you need it then? Every PH that is worth his salt will tell you, that it is much better to have a smaller bullet in the right place, than to have a big bullet in the guts.
    About the sights. This gun must have good solid open sights with a shallow V as the rear sight. But, there's nothing wrong with having this rifle scoped. Let me tell you 1 story. Being a gun writer I get sometimes invited to the places where not many mortals get invited. So, I once visited a factory of a very well known, and, one of the most expensive, European optics' manufacturers. It is great to visit places like that, very educational. So, I've been invited for a shooting session in the company's underground shooting range. And, after a while, the range boss brings out a factory Weatherby Mark V. You want to try it, the guy says. It was a .460 Weatherby. To cut the long story short, I asked him: Why there's a Leupold on that gun? And, there guy says: it's the only scope that this gun cannot break to pieces. It was a very old looking Leupold VariX-III 1,5-5x20 (with 1" tube), which is now a VX-3 1,5-5x20. I am not advertising for nobody. But, I've had very good luck with Leupold scopes on all kinds of rifles. With my very limited experience I had this scope on several rifles above the .375 bore. and, they all performed well. You can have one from SWFA for 400 bucks. And, it will beat much more expensive and bulkier European scopes at least in the strength and dependability department.
    More on the Lott. Some factory loadings produce an honest 2300 fps from the muzzle even with a 500 grain bullet. If you have a scope on this gun, you can take shots out to 200-250 yard distance. Of course, it's a cartridge for close work, but, you can use it on longer shots if you know the ballistics, and, if you are not afraid of the gun. One of the major advantages of Leupold scopes over any others is: they have the longest eye relief in the whole industry, and, it's a very important factor. If you get hit by a Leupold scope, it means that you have installed it wrongly, or, you have crawled the stock badly.
    Good luck, and, keep us all up to date.
     
  2. aussie hunter steve

    aussie hunter steve New Member

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    .458 Lott

    Hi Rob, noticed your post and wondered if you have a scope yet.... I have a Lott and have shot a lot of game with it, from rabbits to buffalo, both here in Australia and also in Africa. I have always used the same variable scope without problem for over 2000 rounds, although it took a couple of tries to get it mounted securely at first. I would advise using a scope without a belled objective lens. Obviously the lighter the scope the less strain on the mounts. The cartridge is capable of good accuracy and my BRNO 602 will shoot some loads sub-moa if I do my part. I have tried various bullets from 350gr - 550gr and have a few favorites because of their on game performance. And loads to go with them if you're interested. Reloading will save you a lot of $ and enable you to get a lot more shooting practice. I think recoil issues are a bit overstated, mostly by people with little experience so if you enjoy your rig - just use it!

    Steve

    No sitting or scope at first till I figure things out and use some type of on body recoil padding but not a sand bag ( I would have never thought of putting a sand bag on my shoulder that a bit ridiculous ). I get all this but am confused about the parker stock issues ? mine has an OEM recoil pad that based on some comments is useless and/ or some cheek piece issue I should be aware of. Can I get more detail on how the stock is not right for the rifle and what kind of hardship is causes.

    Reloading ammo is not my thing but considering the cost it may become a future hobby of mine. All that's available in my area is the factory Hornady 500 gr DGS or DGX and even that's limited in supply.

    For flinching I always keep it aimed then pull the trigger so slow that I don't even know when the gun goes off and the surprise prevents flinching my accuracy. I do this with all rifles and even my bow release . Seems to work well for me when target shooting and when hunting the adrenalin rush keeps my mind off recoil altogether. I'm sure its the same for everyone though.

    If the weather and mail is on time will shoot this weekend with ambulance on stand-by. LOL !


    Thanks again you guys are a great help . With out asking I would have put the scope on first thing and may-be blacked my eye while trying to bench shoot.[/QUOTE]
     
  3. Nic7-300wsm

    Nic7-300wsm AH Member

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    Hi Rob

    Just my little comment to all the above. Yes, the 458 is a big gun, but rather push than kick in the recoil. I have a CZ 550 458 Lott with a straight stock. the fit of the gun is utterly important. Make sure the gun fits you properly. If possible avoid shooting from the bench and never shoot prone. your body needs to rock back with the recoil. I also fitted a mercury recoil arrester in the stock, this adds weight to the stock (about 400g) and acts as a damper (shock absorber). When shooting at the range, use a sling over a tree branch (rifle swinging in the sling) or shooting sticks. My rifle prints 5 shots in 25mm at 50 meters with 475gr bullets with a scope (Nikon Monarch 1.5-6) no problem, just make sure the eye relief is sufficient. Again, most important is the rifle must fit you and have a straight stock. Good luck and enjoy a great Big Bore !!!!!
     
  4. Milan

    Milan AH Senior Member

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    I will revive this a bit. Nothing really new for most of you and even me I guess...well to a point. We all probably know how the fit of the stock is important, but I always thought I could shoot pretty much anything even if it did not fit 100%.
    Until I shot my Ruger RSM in .458 Lott. I'm glad to see those stocks fit someone but I find this gun brutal to shoot. So much so that I'm selling it with only 30 shots fired. No I will not restock it, as I have other guns to use, including a CZ 550 Magnum in .458 Lott. Initially I thought the cartridge was just too much for me as I recall getting beat up by it last time also, only now I remember it was after I already got hurt by the Ruger. I took the CZ out again today and shot 14 rounds from the bench. And while it gets your attention, I had fun shooting it. And I was shooting .375 H&H twice as much to mix things up a bit. True, I shot some lighter handloads that I got with the rifle but I also shot some factory Hornady DGX ammo which supposedly pushed the 500 gr bullet at 2300 fps. Even if it does not, it kicked less than one of the 600 gr handloads.

    It was cold out too today, so maybe the loads seemed milder than usual, but all I'm getting at is that with different stock and better recoil pad, the CZ is much more comfortable to shoot (for me) than the Ruger. The Ruger also seemed to hit me in the jaw and cause me headaches after just 2 shots. I also had a Sako Kodiak in .375 H&H, which when handling seemed like a dream but when firing was hitting me almost as hard. So while I think on smaller rifles it may be less crucial, on bigger ones, the fit should really be looked at.

    Anybody want a mint Ruger RSM in .458 Lott? :D :D :D
     
  5. PHOENIX PHIL

    PHOENIX PHIL AH Legend

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    Just curious as to what about the stock does not fit, length of pull? Cheek weld?
     
  6. Milan

    Milan AH Senior Member

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    I guess...all of the above plus probably the butt pad/butt angle. To be honest I have not figured it out completely yet. I only noticed today.

    All I was getting at is, that both rifles are roughly the same. The Ruger actually being 1/4 lb heavier but I had a scope on the CZ so both probably just few ounces over 9.5 lbs. The CZ has a .5" longer length of pull, what seems like a straighter (read more vertical) butt angle and a thicker butt pad. Both have straight comb (classic stock) but I get a softer cheek weld with the CZ. In order for me to see the open sights on the Ruger I have to get my cheek in quite a bit and I guess this is what hurts the most. The stock seems to jump up more and hit me harder than on the CZ, which just seems to push back. Not sure if the angles are different as at first look they are close but maybe once I measure...who knows? The Ruger seems to have a concave butt pad with less padding and harder rubber overall. The CZ has a Pachmayr Decelerator on it and it is wider and flatter.

    Now, to be fair, I really don't know the reason and I for sure should have a longer length of pull than even the 14" on the CZ. I should be 14.75 if I recall my last measurement or even a bit longer than that. I was not saying the CZ is a perfect fit at all, but it somehow must be a better fit and I guess it makes enough of a difference. If anything, I generally prefer shorter length of pull - I simply like smaller, handier rifles, so I'm used to shorter ones but maybe in the bigger calibers that is not a good thing.

    Hope my ramblings make sense.
     
  7. shuter

    shuter AH Enthusiast

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    I have a Ruger RSM in .458 Lott as well. Mine went off to Wayne at AHR for quite a bit of work; but regarding the stock, he installed a KickEez Magnum pad (1 3/8" thick and soft), as well as a Graco recoil reducer in the buttstock (Net 12 oz. weight gain and better balance). This extended my LOP over factory quite a bit (14 1/8" now), and made the rifle MUCH more comfortable! DON'T give up on that RSM...they're special rifles!
     
  8. shuter

    shuter AH Enthusiast

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  9. Petrus Geldenhuys

    Petrus Geldenhuys AH Enthusiast

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    Lead sled to zero your optics and just to get used to the recoil i would shoot it standing a couple of times first before even attempting shooting sticks and sand bags.
    Look I'm not going to sugar cote this, the 458 lott kicks but it is certainly not unmanageable! The best part about this fear of the recoil is that it will feel like a .22 when you are shooting at a animal....
     
  10. Gert Odendaal

    Gert Odendaal AH Enthusiast

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    Milan, I have seen a similar situation where the recoil come back onto your cheek bone, this has to do with the profile of your face, higher slim cheek bone is prone to stock jumping onto your cheek bone ....this needs to be rectify in customizing the stock profile to compliment your cheek profile... easier said than done naturally....:)
     
  11. PHOENIX PHIL

    PHOENIX PHIL AH Legend

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    Yes, that makes sense. My question was asked for my own learning, not to prompt you to defend the CZ or to question your results with the Ruger. Thanks for the info.

    That said, I'd second the advice about not giving up on the Ruger. I've never owned one, but the RSM sure gets lots of positive comments. I think I'd try to see what I could do to make it fit more properly before I sold it.
     
  12. Milan

    Milan AH Senior Member

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    OK...I had a long reply composed and it got lost by accidentally navigating from the page. I will try to recap, but who wants to read some opinionated bloke's verbal diarrhea? Well here it goes anyway.

    As to the Ruger, I do love many things about it and it is indeed a fine gun. Just probably not for me. It could be customized but I have many other guns that I could do the same to and be just as happy if not happier, including the CZ. So Ruger...don't like the fat, flat forend, don't like the dog-leg bolt handle, dislike the hinge on the floor plate and hate the angled front trigger guard bolt and finally I don't like the heavy barrel. Not too crazy about the small, hard safety either and the trigger is nothing special. Of all those things I could easily live with the bolt handle, safety and trigger. I love the looks of the rifle and I dig the quarter rib, the barrel band and the open sights are gorgeous and functional. The harder recoil pad I already mentioned above. The original stock split at the grip after only 10 rounds or so. They would not send me a new stock so I had to send the rifle in and they replaced the stock under warranty. Instead of bedding it before putting it on, they put it on and it split also. So another stock later and I finally get the gun back. Have not shot it since as I do not want to bed it if I don't keep it and I don't want to split the stock, even though it was tested by the gunsmith with 19 rounds without splitting. I will have it bedded before I shoot it (if I decide to shoot it again).

    The CZ has a much nicer trigger, slimmer barrel, beautiful white bead front sight, larger mag capacity, easier to operate safety, nice floor plate and that softer butt pad. The stock is synthetic and could use bedding just like almost any stock also but it works as is.

    So, to make either rifle even better, restocking the CZ with nice wood and even better fit and shortening barrel is all that would be needed. Reshaping the Ruger stock and installing a better recoil pad may work also but then I'm still stuck with all the other "features" both nice or not so nice to me.

    @PHOENIX PHIL ,
    I hope I did not make this sound like a CZ vs. Ruger vs. anything else thread and I did not take your questions in any bad way. :) I'm simply stating my experience and the reasoning behind my decisions hopefully aiding the next guy to make up his mind. It is up to him to decide if my reasons are valid or not or whether they work for him.

    @Gert Odendaal ,
    I agree. Not sure how my cheek bones are but I'm sure certain combinations of cheek and stock are worse than others. Cosmetic surgery to rectify either can prove to be difficult. :)

    @shuter ,
    I saw your post few days ago and I thought I put a like on it, because I do like it. I feel if I were to have the Ruger modified, I'd end up with exactly the same mods. Nicely done. Again, since I have the CZ already, I may not go that route but who knows.

    @Petrus Geldenhuys ,
    Also agree with everything. I'm not downplaying the .458 Lott's recoil. It does kick. But since I can shoot it off the bench, I'm not going to just go and buy the sled. We cannot shoot at this range in any other position, so I either have to go elsewhere or stick with this. Since the bench shooting is bearable, I don't see shooting standing kneeling or off the sticks to be any harder on the body. But i think your comments were meant more for the OP or in general, not to my specific experience and so again I agree totally.


    On a side-note, I put a 1.5-4 Trijicon on the CZ using Warne quick detach mounts and I have to say that even with 8 screws, the scope moves due to recoil. I can make it work (lighter scope, different rigs, shim the rings with some non-slip material, etc.) but have decided to keep it scope-less as the rifle and cartridge are more meant for close quarters anyway and then the scope is more of a hindrance. I just found it funny how strong the recoil is with respect to scope getting knocked around. Originally I thought with a scope (aging vision) I could use it on some more distant whitetail to get more use out of it. Now instead I just have to get closer to them deer I guess. :D

    Well there you have it. Hopefully of some value to some.

    P.S. When I find the .458 Lott too much whether in Ruger or anything else, I may re-barrel it to .404 Jeffery. Hopefully that would not draw much criticism here, would it? :D:D:D
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2016
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  13. 8x68

    8x68 AH Enthusiast

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    I maybe buying my friends BRNO 602 in 458 Lott (and a recoil pad of somekind). I was considering putting something like a EOTech holographic sight on it.... Any thoughts?
    Here are pics of the rifle:

    BRNO 458 Lott #3.jpg BRNO 458 Lott #4.jpg BRNO 458 Lott #2.jpg
     
  14. Royal27

    Royal27 GOLD SUPPORTER AH Ambassador

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    I think an EOTech would be great if that is what you want.

    Quick acquisition and if you have any eye issues that make open sights a problem, but you don't want a scope, great.

    Some guys will say that the battery is an issue, but I don't agree. Start the hunt with a fresh one and have a backup. Can the battery go dead? Yes. Can an iron sight get knocked off? Yes.
     
  15. 8x68

    8x68 AH Enthusiast

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    Thanks for the info. Yes my eyesight sucks. I have a CZ550 in 450 Rigby that has a Monarch 3 1-5 w/German #4 reticle scope on it. Every once in a while I get a kiss form the eyepiece. Since the recoil is going to be somewhat similar I figured I'd give a Red Dot or Holographic sight a try on the Lott.
     
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  16. Royal27

    Royal27 GOLD SUPPORTER AH Ambassador

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    I'd hunt with one in a heartbeat.

    And nice rifle by the way!
     
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  17. 8x68

    8x68 AH Enthusiast

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    Thanks. I can add it to my BRNO 600 .223, BRNO 602 8x68S, BRNO 602 375H&H plus assortment of CZ rifles.
    It did belong to my best friend until it alighted to my gun safe. He's had it for years. I've known him for over 30yrs and he had it before I came on the scene. Came as a 458WM. He sent it down to a 'smith in the US to have it rechambered to 458 Lott. The gunsmith basically butchered it. When he got it back the bolt had been over polished. It would do the shimmy shimmy shake along the rails. If you fed from the mag it would pick up the first round like normal but after the case is ejected it wouldn't pick up the second round properly. The gunsmith in the US pretty much said too bad....go away. He took it to the range to just to shoot it and after 5 shots (feeding each round by hand) the stock decided it would disengage from the rifle at the pistol grip. He was so pissed that he threw the gun in a box and didn't look at it again until I came along (30yrs later) and rekindled the interest for my friends at the hunt camp to get back into shooting & reloading. I think what did it is that we have always been into the larger calibres and how well they shoot. When I told him that I had purchased a 416 Rigby, 450 Rigby, & had a custom 404 Jeffery built I think I got his "juices" flowing again.
    He would tell me that he would take his 458 Lott long barrelled "pistol" and "oar blade" out of the box and look at it; get frustrated again, and throw it back in the box. One day I said "why don't you bring it to the hunt camp and we can have a look at it?" I brought a bolt from my 450 Rigby to see how bad the issue was and see if it could be remedied. It was pretty bad when we tried it. He took it to his gunsmith buddy in Ottawa to assess it. Long and short of it was they replaced the stock (trimmed the monte carlo down some), replaced most of the bolt, and worked the feed ramp a bit. You see the final result in the above pics. I need a 458 Lott like I need a hole in the head. Already have a 450 Rigby. Gotta shake my head sometimes....LOL
     
  18. Austinkroe

    Austinkroe AH Member

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    I'm a huge fan of a red dot on a rifle. Although I'm not a huge fan of the EOTech series of sights. They might be a bit big for the bolt gun and sit up too high.

    The bigger problem is mounting. The thing on a BRNO or CZ action is the built in mounts. The built in dovetail is a bit small. I really hate them. If I could change one thing about those guns it would be the mount. It would be nice to be able to choose the rail and rings like normal bolt guns.

    I bought a CZ in 458 Lott and mounted a red dot on it. I decided to go with an Aimpoint H1. That thing has great battery life and it isn't too big. I had Wayne at AHR make a custom mount for it and it works great. He also makes a mount for other small red dot sights. Great piece of work. Holds it on nice and tight.

    My reccomendation would be to look at different red dot sights; there are many good ones out there. Keep the mounting options in mind. The lighter the sight the less likely the 458 Lott is to break it. Trijicon and Vortex make nice small options.

    An alternative would be to have a gunsmith drill and tap it for a normal mount which may make it easier to mount any red dot you want.

    The nice part of mounting a red dot on the front of the receiver is that you won't be getting any scope eye. Get the 458. The other bonus is it leaves the whole action nice and open. Makes reloading the magazine nice and easy.

    Put a red dot on it. Have fun. I did and it was a great choice.

    I can hit an 8" balloon with ease at 200 yds with my AR. Haven't tried it yet with the 458 but I bet it will work when I do. Should be fine on buff when I go later this year.
     
  19. 8x68

    8x68 AH Enthusiast

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    Thanks for the info. Yes I bought it from him. Don't really need it but his daughter is getting married this year so he needs funds!
     
  20. bassasdaindia

    bassasdaindia AH Fanatic

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    my 458 Lott is a keeper, 50m 450g Peregrine bullet , 3 shots

    image.jpg
     

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