.458 Lott advise

Discussion in '.375 & Up' started by Rob 458, Oct 24, 2011.

  1. colorado

    colorado AH Enthusiast

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    I guess I'm a recoil wuss, a 570g TSX at 2410 fps out of my 500 Jeffery sent me running for a lead sled after I shot 13 rounds from the bench one day ... Offhand, my 500 Jeffery is a hoot to shoot, very accurate, recoil really isn't an issue offhand, and it's a damn powerful cartridge. So is the 458 Lott.
     
  2. PHOENIX PHIL

    PHOENIX PHIL AH Legend

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    Something I read about recently, I gave a try to yesterday at the range. As usual I used my shooting hand to pull the gun firmly into my shoulder but with my non-shooting hand I kind of pulled the gun away from me at the same time. This doesn't exactly make sense if you've not done it before but if you give it a try a few times dry firing, you'll get it. I was quite impressed with the results and the rifle felt about like a .270 or maybe even less.
     
  3. richteb

    richteb AH Enthusiast

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    Phil, You are correct in the method you are using, as I use it as well and it does work. Just takes a little practice and then it becomes second nature.
     
  4. Rob 458

    Rob 458 New Member

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    Shot the Lott this past sunday and it's a joy to shoot ! Wore a browning vest with jelly pad and the recoil was more like a slow hard push feeling rather then the abrupt kick you get from a a 3 1/2 " mag 12 gauge . After a few standing shots to adjust with the lott's personality rested it on sand bags to try and sight in the iron sights and got to about 5 " bulls eye at 50 yards after 6 rounds. Then took a few standing with no recoil protection just to see what it was like and I was ok with that also but this way defiantly would reduce the # of times I would want to shoot the gun at one time but defiantly ok for hunting application. For me personally I don't think I would shoot it off the bench without the recoil pad at all .

    I know this rifle much more accurate then 5" at 50 but when you make adjustments with a hammer its pretty hard to fine tune the right left. Elevation was bang on at 50 yards every shot so it will need to be scoped for sure because no adjustment for elevation built in to rifle ? . Problem is that the safety latch is at the back of bolt and swings around from about 8 o'clock all the way to 4 o'clock and when it goes by 12 o'clock a properly mounted scope would be in the way and if raised past the obstacle it would position the head to high and the scope to far from barrel. The safety seems to be kicked in at about 10 o'clock but I don't think that is the proper position to be considered officially "safe" but can't be sure. Any ideas on where I could find a parker hale manual to verify what the three or four positions on this safety mechanism are ?.The rifle is a 1100 M custom african 458 mag re chambered to take Lott.

    Thanks
     
  5. PaulT

    PaulT AH Fanatic

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    Congrats Rob and well done with your new Lott.

    I take back everything I said about the stock.
    If your now shooting it, and it feels o.k, then to hell with what i said.
    I'm glad it didn't put you off shooting it and you aproached it with sense.

    The more you shoot it the more comfortable it will get, to the point where, eventually, you'll be shooting it from the bench without a care in the world.

    Sorry cannot help you with the safety, this is not the model i am familiar with.

    The Lott is an extremely effective big game cartridge that you'll do well with on any game anywhere.

    Paul.
     
  6. richteb

    richteb AH Enthusiast

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    Rob 458
    Sounds like it is fitted with a Mauser style wing type safety. To be certain I would try the following:

    1 Make sure the rifle is completely unloaded.
    2. When in the 4 o'clock position this should be the fire position ( safety off).
    3. When in the 12 o'clock position this should be safety on but allows the bolt to open.
    4. When in the 8 o'clock safety on and bolt locked.

    If this is the case with your rifle then I would have a talk with a gun smith about replacing the entire bolt shroud with one that has swing type safety similar to Winchester or Ruger. It may be possible to get one from Brownells or similar as a complete unit. If this is the case you don't even need a gunsmith to fit it. All this of course depends on comparability, hence the chat with your gunsmith.

    Hope this helps
     
  7. Ole Bally

    Ole Bally AH Enthusiast

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    Wow so much advice here! All I can add from a coupla years experience is that shooting scoped big bores from a bench can be nose bleed material if you accept the bench as it's presented. By this I mean that 99% of benches' don't fit the shooter!
    If you can possibly do it, get the bench height to a position where your back is as vertical as it would be shooting offhand! If it means moving the chair out of the way and shooting from our knees then do it. Obviously better to stand! Your crouched over stance with most benches alters your eye relief and results in 'scope eye'! Standing also lets you 'ride' the recoil!
    I have a design for shooting sticks I'd like to sell on that is as close to shooting off a bench as you can get with something that's highly portable....and adjustable. Used it extensively for years with outstanding results! Question is who will sell them with me? Patenting is such a mission and hardly worth the effort!
     
  8. richteb

    richteb AH Enthusiast

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    The other option is to buy the Spec-rest from Loan Star Products and set it up on hight adjustable tri-pod.
     
  9. Jaco Zeeman

    Jaco Zeeman AH Member

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    You did it! Got your big bore and shot with it! Congratulations. All the advise above is mostly experience that lead to corrections and adjustments and evryone is usefull in the different situations you meet with a Big Bore.
    I owns a 458 3" Express which can shoot Lott, Win Mag and Watts ammo. It is a Brno ZKK602 action with a very light (for calibre) barrel. I shoot it at about Lott balistics. I load 500gr bullets at 2200 fps which is adequate for whatever you need to shoot. I had to make a couple of adjustments because of eccesive recoil and a slightly bad fit. These ran up to about R1000 or $130.
    My penny worth of advise:
    1. The rifle must fit you well. Close your eyes, shoulder it and then open your eyes. Your eyes must line up with the sites.
    I had my 458 Express's stock lengthened by 1.5 inches and the fit is perfect. The longer stock helps with the recoil as well because I am not cramped up behind the rifle.
    2. A too light rifle for the calibre may punish you. Mine weighed 8lb 3on and hit the wax out my ears. A gunsmith helped me to increases the weight to 10lb 1on by insering two lead bars into the butt. It made a huge differenc.
    3. He also fitted a decelarator recoil pad.
    4. It grouped about 3" at 50m with open sites from the standing position over shooting sticks. (How big is a Buffalo?)
    5. I fitted a higher front sight because it shot almost 5" high at 50m. Now it shoots 2 " high at 50m.
    6. At 100m, with open sites it group around 5".
    7. Advise on holding the Big Bore: Lift your rear elbow to 90 degrees. It helps to keep the butt in the fold of the shoulder and prevents it from jumping or slipping to you upper arm (top of the biceps) where the muscle is pinched between the but and the bone.
    The rifle , calibre , bullet and velocity combination works well and I enjoy shooting it now much more.
     
  10. jimmyg

    jimmyg New Member

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    Jimmy G

    Hi Rob,

    Glad to hear you're shooting your .458 Lott! I've had mine for seven years and really like it. One small bit of advice I'd like to offer is to shoot the rifle with the magazine full so that you have to cycle the cartridges out of the magazine instead of just dropping them in. Your rifle was a .458 Win Mag and the 3/10" difference between that and the Lott can really impact how the cartridges feed into the chamber. Your magazine probably had to be opened up a little during the conversion and maybe your receiver as well. Make sure the exact ammo you are going to use on dangerous game cycles perfectly. The last place you want to discover a problem is in the field where a good situation can turn really nasty in a heartbeat.

    Good hunting,
    Jim
     
  11. AlabamaGeorge

    AlabamaGeorge New Member

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    I am impressed by so much great advice on this forum.
    I have had my 458 Lott scoped for over 5 years and have had great experiences, success and fun with it. I concur to always shoot your new large caliber guns freehand first to get the feel of recoil. Once you "learn" or get used to the Lott's type recoil you will understand how to absorb the 'push' of a big bore which is different than the 'kick' of other calibers closer to the .30.
    I admit I have been knocked silly by my scope on one occasion in over the hundreds of rounds that I have put through it, but I made the mistake of shooting much smaller .30 cal rifles on range earlier that day and was a little too relaxed when time came to the Lott.
    The big bores are a lot of fun to shoot and even more fun to hunt with, I have been radically impressed with mine on Cape Buffalo. When you are comfortable with the 458 Lott and know how to use it that rifle gives you an extra boost of confidence in the bush with dangerous game.
     
  12. Rob 458

    Rob 458 New Member

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    The location of safety on back of bolt made me decided to go with a reddot because it has unlimited eye relief and is short enough that the safety latch is not a concern. Field of view is unlimited just like eye relief if you keep two eyes open. Just put a cheap Bushnell as an experiment to see how it worked and after I finally hit zero at 50 yards it grouped around 3-4" . It's more of a red blot then a dot scope with 5 MOA sort of like iron sights but quick acquisition and easer to line up target when zeroed .

    Would never hunt with this scope but there are a few higher end reddots / holographic on the market with better MOA and I'm curious to see how many rounds it will take before failing then I can return it to bushnell or a refund. I find life time warrantees are the way to go because when you return products it motivates the builder to improve quality standards and that benefits everyone buying in the long run.


    The parker hale weighs about 11 lbs has a 24" barrel feels real solid and ergonomic no issues shooting and cycling except right after installing the scope ? not sure but maybe I got a drop of lock-tite in the chamber or action had trouble cycling the first few then it passed and no problems ??. Or it just doesn't like to be cleaned and only works good when its dirty.

    The mag should hold four rounds and it does but you can't pass the bolt over four without chambering one so I just put three in and it cycles fine that way but I only did that a few time's and shot it twice so time will only tell I guess. I find putting them as far back as possible in mag makes thing smother also.

    How big are the Kill areas on the big five game animals anyway ?


    Cheers
     
  13. Rob 458

    Rob 458 New Member

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    No offence ever taken . I can see if someone was to ever put thier cheek behind the cheek peice and shoot being a big issue though.LOL
     
  14. Ole Bally

    Ole Bally AH Enthusiast

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    You can feed a round into the chamber, turn the rifle over, open the floor plate and put another round in to get your ammo count up!

    The kill area on DG is pretty big when talking of side on heart lung shots but when you need the pin point accuracy of brain shots on a charge, is a 3 to 5 " group acceptable....For me NOT! Personally, any bolt feed rifle that cannot shoot at least an MOA group or at worst 1 1/2" is not worth carrying! That's just me though! Thing is you can't plan on having a huge 'kill zone' presented every time you hunt...the firearm has to be capable of fine shooting....it also boosts your confidence knowing the gun can if you can!
    I have had a client out with a Holographic pistol sight on a 470 double and it worked real well. One understands that when using a big bore double that your range is limited to the 'regulation' of the barrels! So the sight worked very well for him.
     
  15. Jaco Zeeman

    Jaco Zeeman AH Member

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    Ole, as you know, because you're in the game: Shooting dangerous animals charging at you does not happen at 50-100m but at 5-10m! You will probably start engaging the menace at 50m because you're panic stricken and then run out of ammo with the brute just outside 15 m from you! Usually you wait until much closer to be sure you hit the right spot. The speed of the action during a charge is tremendous and even if you are able to shoot MOA at 50m from the bench or shooting sticks, you will be taking freehand shots at a charging and bobbing "whatever"! On the other hand, if you stay calm you will hit a dime at 5-10m and even 20m with a Lott and your sub MOA at 50m does not count anymore.
     
  16. Ole Bally

    Ole Bally AH Enthusiast

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    Hundred percent Jaco, totally agree! I am just a stickler for precision equipment and knowing the gun can do it's job 100% gives me the confidence to execute those shots which if I wasn't sure of in my own little mind I wouldn't take. Like anchoring an Elephant on the hip ball at 50m or so. Hmmm yes, I can see I'm opening myself up for some fire here!!! The thing that would do my head in would be that I wasn't sure where the bullet would impact! But then I suppose blaming the guns inaccuracy would always be an option!! :eek:
    I once brain shot a hippo sleeping on a sand bank at 189m with a .458 WM. I had all the time I needed to range him with a laser range finder, work out the windage, build a nice sand 'bag' rest and squeeze the shot off. I was quartering away which meant if the bullet dropped further than calculated it would have hit the spine high neck. Below that was all the arteries feeding the brain so I had quite a large target area but specifically targeted the brain. If I had doubted the rifle in any way I could not have made the shot with any confidence....and NO it's not a shot I would recommend anyone take for the hell of it. It was a rogue bull (previously injured in a territory fight ) that's killed some folk and there was no way to get closer across an open sand bank in 40+ deg C heat and the time to finish the problem had run out!
    Having 100% confidence in your tools goes a long way to helping you achieve what you may have thought you couldn't!
    Again personal opinion...why would anyone want to own an 'inaccurate' rifle when there are so many accurate ones out there?
    Rob 458, my friend, this is not a dig at you and I don't mean to offend you in any way!! Just enjoy your rifle and take no mind to old cranks like me!
     
  17. Jaco Zeeman

    Jaco Zeeman AH Member

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    Ole. I agree 100% with you wrt accuracy. My .375H&H and smaller rifles with the scopes are very accurate. If you look at my profile pics you'lle see a couple of animals taken at a fairly long range with the 375H&H and 7x57. However, my 458 Express has open sites and I am 51 years of age.The eyes are not that good anymore and a 2" group at 50m from shooting sticks is fine with me. I don't like shooting it from a bench! On paper targets, I hit the bull 8-9 out of 10 times from 5-50 metres at the BASA (Bigbore Association of Southern Africa)shoots. These shoots are all done with calibre, bullet weight, velocity, time and accuracy as the criteria. The targets are static, or moving towards you from 30m to 1m where it stops, or sideways at 25-40m, or going away. Gives you good practice, sorting out gun problems, flinch problems, good excersize with your big bore rifle an is great fun and a lot of laughter. Happy hunting
     
  18. Ole Bally

    Ole Bally AH Enthusiast

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    Hey Jaco those shoots sound like seriaaas fun! Got any pics or video clips to show how it's set up?
    As an over 50, But to be honest, for many years now, I've used a 1.5 - 5 Vari X III on my 458 and found it a fantastic combination. Leupold quick mounts get it off pretty quick. I just liked the scope for the better vision it gave me into the shadows, bad light etc. I learned to shoot it both eyes open at low power just like my bow and enjoyed great shooting memories with it!
    But then again, I have great fun with my air rifles too! If it shoots....lets have fun! I shoot a Glock 23 in .40 cal for Prac Pistol comp!
    I think it was Gen Patton who once said..."I love the smell of gunsmoke in the morning!!" or something like that!
     
  19. Jaco Zeeman

    Jaco Zeeman AH Member

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    Hi Ole. Check out the web: Big Bore Association of South Africa and You Tube "Basa Shoot". Also "Big Bore Association Shoot". It will give you about 5 video clips where some of the action is displayed. Send me your comments.
     
  20. Ole Bally

    Ole Bally AH Enthusiast

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    Thanks Jaco, wilco!! :)
     

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