45-120

Discussion in 'Muzzleloaders & Black Powder' started by EDELWEISS, Nov 1, 2012.

  1. EDELWEISS

    EDELWEISS AH Senior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2011
    Messages:
    58
    Likes Received:
    0
    Hunted:
    US, Canada, Middle East(does that count)
    Im interested in these old BP cartridges; but have to admit that they confuse me when compared to the power of the NE rounds. A 45-120 looks very close to 450 NE (3 1/4), and I "know" or at least I know 450NE is powerful enough for dangerous game; but I cant find any comparison between 45-120 and 450NE.

    Are they close? Can a 45-120 be used for dangerous game, in countries that require 375H&H as a minimum?

    Im not interested in 45-70 "nuclear powered rounds". The 45-120 seems to be equivalent to the 450???

    Thoughts
     
  2. spike.t

    spike.t GOLD SUPPORTER AH Legend

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2010
    Messages:
    2,892
    Likes Received:
    98
    My Photos:
    131
    Member of:
    sci int, basc
    Hunted:
    zambia, tanzania, zimbabwe, hungary, france, england
    hi edelweiss from the info i have they are in no way comparable. the 45-120 with 500grn bullet at 1520 ft/sec produces 2561 ft/lbs , and the 450 3 1/4 NE with 480grn bullet at 2150ft/sec produces 4930 ft/lbs.
     
  3. ikeda

    ikeda AH Veteran

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2009
    Messages:
    124
    Likes Received:
    1
    My Photos:
    4
    Member of:
    NRA, TSRA, SCI
    Hunted:
    Namibia (3), Zimbabwe
    The 45-120 is actually equivalent to the 450 Black Powder Express, which with 120gr of Black, shot a 365 gr bullet @ 1700 fps for an energy of 2340fp.
    In a strong modern rifle you could indeed load the 45-120 with smokeless powder to equal the 450 Nitro.
     
  4. Dirtdart

    Dirtdart New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2012
    Messages:
    4
    Likes Received:
    0
    Member of:
    Life Member SCI, Benefactor NRA, NMLRA.
    Hunted:
    RSA, Namibia
    Hello,
    If you can find a copy of, SPG Lubricants BP Cartridge Reloading Primer by Mike Venturino and Steve Garbe it is a very good source of information on black powder cartridges. It was printed in 1992, great velocity, energy, and trajectory tables. You could convert the energy to joules and determine what class of game the cartridge is legal for by the regulations for the desired country. You will find that some of the BP cartridges compare to some of the old BP expresses maybe, but not with anything using smokeless powders.
    Hope this helps,
    Dirtdart
     
  5. 577nitroexpress

    577nitroexpress New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2013
    Messages:
    12
    Likes Received:
    0
    I've built three doubles in the modern loading of this cartridge, 500 grain bullet at 2200 FPS and its a real killer. I like it because you can use a very narrow framed action. I did however have a custom reamer that opens the throat and neck up for modern bullets (.458). Loads are exactly the same as a 450NE. I call it a .458 NE American, which it is.
     
  6. AZDAVE

    AZDAVE AH Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2013
    Messages:
    64
    Likes Received:
    5
    My Photos:
    10
    Hunted:
    South Africa
    The difference is that the 45/120 is a black powder round and the operating pressure in 28000 and below and the 450NE is 43000ish.
    If you load the 45/120 to the same pressure level it will get you 450NE ballistics. The only problem is that if you shot the higher pressure load in an
    old Sharps or rolling block that was designed for BP pressure's you are asking for trouble. I shoot both 450NE double and an old shaps in 45/110 just so a 450NE won't chamber
    enjoy both for their intended purpose.
     
  7. EDELWEISS

    EDELWEISS AH Senior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2011
    Messages:
    58
    Likes Received:
    0
    Hunted:
    US, Canada, Middle East(does that count)
    Every so often I get the urge to rechamber (lengthen) a Pedersoli Double Rifle from 45-70 to 45-120. I know its been successfully done and its not complicated for competent gunsmiths. My question is would it be OK for say Leopard or maybe Lion. Obviously Id be hunting with a PH who would have a "modern" rifle.
     
  8. Velo Dog

    Velo Dog AH Fanatic

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2014
    Messages:
    689
    Likes Received:
    105
    Location:
    Anchorage
    My Photos:
    11
    Member of:
    NRA Life Member.
    Hunted:
    Namibia (1), South Africa (3) & USA (most Western States, including AK & HI). Too bad spear fishing is not called "fish hunting" or, I could add a few extra countries (couldn't resist weaving that in somehow, sorry).
    EIDELWEISS,

    The .45-120 is plenty for leopard and likely plenty for lion as well.

    Heck, the .45-70 will probably get the same respect from people who have shot and seen shot quite a few large cats (I have not done so).

    Many PHs will not guide for baited leopard unless the client is using a scope on their rifle.

    Perhaps there might be one somewhere that would agree to your idea (it'd be a shame to have to scope a good looking hammer gun like yours).

    Perhaps one of the PHs who offer hunting leopard with hounds would agree to your idea.

    I do not hunt leopard because I am severely ADHD and cannot sit still in a blind very long ("ants in my pants") and am too old to keep up with a pack of hounds these days (youth is wasted on the young).

    I can still walk all day with a large bore rifle and I shoot them very well but, I will never hunt lion due to the price.

    However, if you do not find an Outfitter or PH here in this forum (there are several excellent ones here) that will accommodate you, I know one that occasionally gets a lion permit for a 100,000 acre concession bordering The Kruger Park, no fence between them, only a shallow river (I shot a 42" buffalo there, shown as my Avatar).

    When he has a permit, he offers a tracking hunt on foot for true free-range lion.

    You would be limiting your shot opportunity (wild lions are quite skittish/elusive/difficult to sneak up on) with no scope but, perhaps he might agree to your idea, I'm not sure.

    Fly in the oatmeal - Those free-range lion hunts cost more than most folks can afford.

    Best Regards,
    Velo Dog.
     

Share This Page