4457

[Waterguy631]

Can you laminate your original 4457 and it will still be accepted?
Tom

 

[JimP]

It should be but I would call a customs office and ask them, they are the ones that you would need to deal with.

 

[CAustin]

Yes. I carry laminated color copies in the gun case! Paper copies to Africa fir the temporary license.

 

[JimP]

Yes. I carry laminated color copies in the gun case! Paper copies to Africa fir the temporary license.

How do you get by with "copies" since a copy is not a official original document. I can understand a copy so that you have the serial numbers as just in case but with them in the gun case it isn't going to help. Also when I applied for my SAPs 520 I needed a notarized copy of the 4457 and not just a copy of it.

 

[Royal27]

How do you get by with "copies" since a copy is not a official original document. I can understand a copy so that you have the serial numbers as just in case but with them in the gun case it isn't going to help. Also when I applied for my SAPs 520 I needed a notarized copy of the 4457 and not just a copy of it.

Probably because they are color copies and no one notices the difference. It would only have to fail once though.... and I'd be more afraid of it failing on the way back here in the states!

 

[CAustin]

If your so worried about it go fill out multiple 4457s and go back to Homeland Security and have them stamped! It was homeland security agent who told me to make copies to begin with. To be more precise Customs And Border Patrol agent.
You go to a notary and they notarize the document to send over to rifle permits.com. All they are attesting to is that it is you sending the 4457 to Africa. The average notary is not going to question a good color copy of the 4457. Now if it's a crap copy it would be a different story.
Coming back in to the USA I don't think I have ever seen anything printed saying the 4457 must be an original document. CBP just wants to see a 4457 that matches your ID and the serial numbers on the gun.
So as I get off my high horse I will say that I've done it three times and the laminated copies of the 4457s are all still in my gun case for the next trip. The laminated copies are just for proof that the guns are yours when returning to the USA.

 

[enysse]

I laminated mine, just because so many things can go wrong. I carry it with my passport.

 

[Areaonereal]

I scanned my documents, emailed to SA for the permit in May 2015 with no problems at all, arrived in Joberg, and cleared the rifles quickly and no issues with preapproved documents. All were copies of scanned documents.

 

[gvincent]

FYI - During my return flight from SA this past May, the CBP agent checking my firearms and associated 4457's at my port of entry (Atlanta airport) lectured me that the original 4457 was an "official" government document and that "notarizing" the original 4457 document is PROHIBITED by federal law. So, in the future, I will have a "notarized" copy of the 4457 for the SA officials and a "non-notarized" original 4457 for US officials.

 

[gvincent]

FYI - Regarding lamination of the 4457's, both 4457's (originals) were laminated and the CBP agent didn't mention the lamination. Perhaps he was too irritated with my "notarized" original 4457's. I keep the original 4457's on my person (along with my passport) and insert copies of my 4457's and passport into my carry-on luggage, check-in luggage, and locked rifle case.

 

[Areaonereal]

My 4457 have 2 stamps / seals that are applied at the time of issue and have the original signatures of the issuing office. I think some may confuse the stamps as a notarized stamp, which they are not. I have never had a 4457 notarized, and see no reason for it, I am a notary in the state of Illinois and notarizing that 4457 serves no purpose, it already has an official stamp from a federal agency. Now, when you provide a copy of your passport, it should be notarized as being a true and correct copy of the original, with a proper attached notary seal, and possibly if you provide a copy of your 4457, I assume that having that copy notarized by a notary as a true and correct copy then that would a valid use of a notary affirmation. As far as SAPS requiring a notarized original, I think they are referring to the original stamps/seals that are applied by the issuing officer on the 4457. I receive 4 originals from my CBP and have never had any issues anywhere.

 

[gvincent]

FYI - The following verbiage was excerpted from the "South Africa Firearm Permit Application & Requirements w/ Notary Service" instructions package that was forwarded to my attention by Gracy Travel International:

Dear XXXXXXXX,


Attached is the SA gun permit application and needs to be filled out in BLACK INK only. To process the application we require the following documents:

1. Copy of the information page of your passport (Must be Notarized)

1. Completed and signed SAPS 520 application (Must be mailed- Original only)

1. Copy- US Customs form 4457 (Must be Notarized) , 4457 customs form can be obtained at your local Customs office.

**Notary available for an additional $xx.xx. Should you choose to have Gracy Travel secure the notary services on your behalf, you will not need to have the 4457 nor the passport copy notarized. We will take care of that for you. You will only need to add $xx.xx to the fees below, with a note asking us to take care of that for you.

 

[Areaonereal]

Just exactly what is the notary acknowledgeing, when they notarize and sign the document? Maybe the term notary in South Africa is not consistent with that of a Notary in the US. Two official seals from CBP and an original signature of issuing officer on the 4457. Never had an issue and never had anything Notarized in the US, for clearing thru SAPS. Has anyone else needed to have a 4457 Notarized to get thru the SAPS with a weapon.

 

[Waterguy631]

If you are sending a copy to have your permits done ahead of time the copy has to be notarized that it is a true copy of the original

 

[Areaonereal]

Thank you. that clears everything up...a copy to be notarized, not the original.

 

[gvincent]

My understanding (as per several notaries located here in Texas) is that Texas law prohibits them from "notarizing" copies of original documents. As per the American Association of Notaries website: "When a notary is asked to produce a notary-certified copy of a passport (or other document) when his or her state does not allow notaries to certify or attest copies, he or she can show the requestor an affidavit that is similar to the one below and advise the requestor that, by law, a notary cannot simply notarize a copy of a passport (or other document) and attest or certify that it is a true and correct copy. The notary should then explain that he or she can notarize the requestor’s signature and have him or her swear or affirm to the truth of that statement. If the requestor completes an affidavit, the notary can have the requestor swear or affirm that the document is a true and correct copy and then perform the notarization." Ouch, this is much too complicated for a country boy like me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Areaonereal]

That would be the same in Illinois, we only notarized the signatory as being the person who signed and affirmed the document. We are notarizing the signature, nothing more. The signatory must show proof of identification with photo and signature is affixed as personally witnessed by the notary.

 

[James.Grage]

Can you laminate your original 4457 and it will still be accepted?
Tom

Yes you can Laminate your original 4457

To send a Notarized 4457, it will have to be a copy of the original 4457.

 

[Areaonereal]

Why not insert your 4457 into a plastic sleeve, three ring binder type. That will protect from the wear and tear, that a laminated style would. Them it could,be easily removed,if,needed. I have used this method,on both trips and it,works well.