375 Ruger vs 375 H&H

Discussion in '.375 & Up' started by mstewart44, Mar 6, 2010.

  1. sestoppelman

    sestoppelman SILVER SUPPORTER AH Legend

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    When the 375 Ruger first came out I thought about getting one. But when I looked it over and saw what it would do in the real world, I decided that already having an H&H, there was no real advantage to switching as they are so close in performance. Now if I didnt already have an H&H, I would probably go for the Ruger.
     
  2. Bert the Turtle

    Bert the Turtle AH Enthusiast

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    I got concerned that my own argument was heading against my favorite cartridge! Turns out the 30-06 has twice the taper of the 375 Ruger (0.8 vs 0.4mm).


    I admit that the rifle has a lot to do with it, but case shape is important; probably not as important in a bolt gun as in an automatic. I think one of the reasons why the AK series of rifles is considered more reliable than the m16 is the case design. The 7.62 or 5.45x 39 has a tremendous amount of taper. No way is there ever going to be an extraction problem with a case shaped like that.

    We know that a case with perfectly parallel sides would not work. There has to be some taper. How much is enough? I have no idea. I'm very comfortable with my 30-06's. I've had problems with extraction on a .223 (0.5mm taper) so the Ruger worries me. It could just be that the Ruger doesn't fill any particular need for me and I'm looking for trouble where none exists.
     
  3. B9.3

    B9.3 AH Veteran

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    Hi enysse, I think the 375 Ruger case will be with us for a very long time. I believe it will be the new whatever case, meaning it will be very popular with
    wildcatters. It may even end up as a factory cartridge in a different calibre. A 9.3 on the Ruger case would be very good and sensible. No doubt it will be
    necked up and down. As it is, I think it is a very good case design. It has no flaws that I am aware of and is easily available. I ordered 100 cases and had
    them quickly down here in Australia. It gives very good ballistics in a short barrel. It should be very impressive in a 26" barrel for those who like magnum
    length barrels. If one so chose that length of barrel on a magnum action, he would be able to seat his projectiles level with the base of the neck so that no
    powder space is wasted, it should easily shade the wonderful 375 Weatherby. That is my intention.
     
  4. KMG Hunting Safaris

    KMG Hunting Safaris SPONSOR AH Elite

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    Another Vote for the CZ .375 H&H.
     
  5. WyoWes

    WyoWes AH Member

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    I have two Rugers in the 375 Ruger and have done two trips to Africa with them. Both performed excellent, took every thing from Impala to Eland, with them and couldn't be happier. Never shot or owned a 375 H&H, ammo is much easier to get the the latter, but can't say anything bad about the Ruger rifle or the round. Used the Horandy factory 300 gr Solids and Round nose and got great results.
     
  6. desertloper

    desertloper AH Veteran

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    I too am interested in a .375

    Aside from the differences that have been well discussed on the H&H v Ruger..what about the platforms which those calibers rest?

    Is one rifle better than the other that would make one lean in one direction?

    Both appear similar, Mauser Action, Integral Scope Mounts, etc.

    CZ looks like it runs for about $1000
    Ruger looks like is would cost $800.

    So is the 375H&H or the CZ 20% better than the Ruger?

    CZ-USA -> CZ 550 American Safari Magnum
    Rugerï½® M77ï½® Hawkeyeï½® African Bolt-Action Rifle Models
     
  7. 35bore

    35bore AH Elite

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    Have to agree with enysse, (he beat me to it), the major factor that would determine the purchase of one rifle caliber over the other, for use worldwide, would be ammo availability. The 375 H&H is a fantastic caliber and has more than proven itself for a long time, and the factory loaded ammo is everywhere the big stuff is located. I only have book knowledge of the 375 Ruger, but cartridge performance duplicates the H&H, so in my opinion, it's like reinventing the wheel, is the shorter stroke really gonna make that much damn difference for the guy that practices with his rifle??? I highly doubt it. 375 H&H all the way. good luck no matter which you decide on, contrary to a few of the post here, my new Ruger is a fantastic design and functions flawlessly, I love the rifle. The CZ 550 is a well built and working tool for the field, neither much to look at, but your quarry won't give a crap what your gun looks like, he's just going to know that it hurt.
     
  8. messmate

    messmate AH Veteran

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    I bought a 375 Alaskan 'cos it was cheap & I'd heard of too many African models splitting stocks. I took it to Africa last year and never had a problem with the rifle, it's been reliable and quite accurate.(Upwards 200+ rounds) Don't believe the H&H kills anything any deader than the Ruger, or vise versa, however there is the worry about Ruger ammo availability in SA...If you happen to lose what you take over, you may be screwed. I'm thinking hard about going to a H&H before I go back to Africa & reckon Ruger made a bad mistake dropping theirs, it was a nice rifle.
     
  9. philip in china

    philip in china AH Member

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    Agreed 100%. We are back to the old question "Will the calibre do what I want?" As the ballistics etc. are so similar the answer must be the same to either. Frankly with either .375 a resounding yes. So go with the one in a rifle that is comfortable for you and for which you can get ammunition of the type and load you want.
     
  10. lwaters

    lwaters BRONZE SUPPORTER AH Veteran

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    I wonder if alot of them rifles that split the stock were used with the lead slead. (a divise that reduces recoil to almost nothing from a bench rest) I think some of the split stocks may have been do to this.
     
  11. B9.3

    B9.3 AH Veteran

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    Flip a coin.. I prefer the CZ550 it has more than proven it's worth as a safe, strong and reliable weapon, and many have staked their life on it..
    Both the 375 H&H & the 375 Ruger are wonderful cartridges. Allowing that a half inch of bolt travel is meaningless, I would make my choice on whether I was going to use factory loads, or handloads. If you are a handloader, the Ruger is a better choice as it will give much better case life than the wonderful classic H&H. I love this cartridge but alas it is a serious offender for case stretching, which results in very poor case life. This is fact. I must admit I enjoyed owing a CZ550 375H&H but as a handloader, I got tired of junking brass & rechambered to 375 Weatherby and gained much better case life. I like the idea of a 375 Ruger on a true magnum action as it allows bullet seating without intruding into the powder space. This is fully the equal of the 375 Wby Mag.
     
  12. B9.3

    B9.3 AH Veteran

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    I have just ordered a new Winchester Model 70 Safari 375 H&H to play with. This will eventually be rebarrelled to 375 Ruger or my personal favourite 375 Dakota with a 26" barrel. I have been hunting with Weatherbys since the early 1970s so 26" barrels don't bother me at all. I have recently obtained 100 new Ruger cases & 100 new Dakota cases.. I suspect it may become a 375 Dakota, and the Ruger cases will be used for a 9.3mm.
     
  13. sestoppelman

    sestoppelman SILVER SUPPORTER AH Legend

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    The case stretch thing is a myth perpetrated by a couple of things. The belted case thing, largely a myth, and the real culprit, handloading techniques. If dies are properly set to size the brass properly (headspace on the shoulder instead of the belt) for the specific chamber, the belted cases do quite well. My own .375 H&H has never suffered from a separation or even a bright ring after many reloads. Take the time to set your dies properly and enjoy good case life and forget the silly myths surrounding the allround best cartridge ever.
     
  14. Tom071

    Tom071 AH Member

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    I am going on a PG hunt in May and had to make this very same decision. However the decission I made was not base on performance, functioning, or ammo availability. This could well be my only Africian safari. Therefore I went with the classic rifle in a classic caliber. The CZ 550 in 375 H&H. I toped it with a trijicon Acupoint. I have several boxes of ammo put through the combo and am very happy with its performance.
     
  15. enysse

    enysse AH Ambassador

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    I have never heard people talk about problems reloading the 375 H&H. If that was the case it would have died off a long time ago. I agree without the belt....you will be able to do many different things..and make it more efficient and easier to reload.
     
  16. sestoppelman

    sestoppelman SILVER SUPPORTER AH Legend

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    Occasionally you hear some worry about case life. Will the average reloader have shorter case life with the H&H over the Ruger? Probably. It requires attention to detail to get max case life out of belted mags, I agree with that. Certainly the Ruger is like so many these days, a step away from the older designs. Case life will no doubt be less of a factor for some Ruger owners. However we are talking about hunting cartridges here, not bench rest. Whether a case can be reloaded 7 times or 10 is really sort of moot. Who wants to shoot either from the bench that many times? H&H cases are less expensive too I imagine. When the Ruger came out I read a few reviews and was not impressed enough with it to can my H&H which has served me well for many years and 3 safari's. No animal hit with either round would know the difference, no way.
     
  17. enysse

    enysse AH Ambassador

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    I think finding brass for the 375 H&H is a lot easier! And as long as you aren't shooting super hot loads the brass should last a while. And you are right no animal will know the difference between the two.

    I really can't see sales on the 375 H&H slowing down soon...they might lose business to the 375 Ruger, but in my lifetime, I don't see them over taking the 375 H&H.
     
  18. B9.3

    B9.3 AH Veteran

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    sestoppelman, this is a very good reply and shows your experience. As a handloader of close to 40 years, I learned long ago to headspace on the shoulder of all my belted cases and in doing so get excellent case life out of my Weatherbys, much more than I have obtained from either the 300/375 H&H. I use Redding Dies for obvious reasons in my Ultra Mag Press. I also use Redding Competition Shellholders on all my cartridge cases. These allow for +.002, +.004
    +.006, +.008, +.010. This gives perfect headspace for the chamber of my rifles. Irrespective of handloading practices, the H&H will never give the case life that the Weatherby cases do. This is a very well know fact in Australia where handloading is very popular. Whether the H&H is the best allrounder is a matter of opinion not a proven fact as it is soundly beaten by others using less gunpowder. I won't make that call. I am very fond of the 375 H&H. The 30.06 has been called the best allrounder as has the 338 Win. There is a very strong case for the 9.3x64 Brenneke which I prefer to the 375 H&H. It's all a matter of personal choice.. We know Monish calls the 375 H&H the Emperor of all cartridges. He is simply stating an opinion.
     
  19. sestoppelman

    sestoppelman SILVER SUPPORTER AH Legend

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    Much of what we banter back and forth on here is of course opinion based. I agree totally that what constitutes the best allrounder is a matter of personal preference. However most experienced hunters of African game consider the .375 H&H the best allrounder all things considered. Certainly there are better rounds for specific animals or types of hunting. The beauty of the .375 is that it can do it all. As to why you would get better case life out of a Weatherby case than the H&H case I cannot say. If chamber and die settings match well there should be no issue. But again personal experience dictates much of what happens. As I said my own H&H has never had a case life issue of any kind. Maybe I just go lucky! Good hunting to you down under! BTW, My dad married an "Aussie gal" during WWII when stationed there briefly while in the Merchant Marine. Alas it didnt last long, my dad repatriated to the states and she stayed behind. Oh youth!
     
  20. B9.3

    B9.3 AH Veteran

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    Dear friend, thank you for your reply. With the 375 H&H case stretch, I simply attributed that to the amount of case taper as I have found it to be much less with a minimal taper case like the Weatherby, and I suspect the radius shoulder has a bit to do with it.. But still, I absolutely agree with you that the 375 H&H is a splendid and very capable hunting round.. Although I have my favourites, I would be happy and confident to hunt the world with this legend. I find a Walnut stocked Mauser type action in 375H&H with iron sights conjures up visions of an African foot safari in my mind. That is an exciting thought.. Just a few days back, I ordered a new Winchester Model 70 Safari in 375 H&H. I will put a Zeiss Victory Diavari 1.5-6 x42 on this rifle. At the age of 62 years, I probably won't burn this barrel out, but I will try... It's a shame the Aussie gal didn't go to the states with your Dad, I think geographically it is a beautiful country. I have a lot of friends in the states... Thank you for your good wishes re: hunting, and I send the same to you.. Cheers, Beau.
     

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