375 Holland - Unique Handloading data Sought

Discussion in '.375 & Up' started by Second Wind, May 18, 2012.

  1. Second Wind

    Second Wind AH Enthusiast

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    Gentle Readers,

    I am hoping that someone of you can properly address this matter, Seems a rather interesting proposition

    The story goes like this:

    The other day (which is a better opening than "on a dark stormy night") this "Wizard" was in my office expounding the virtues of the 375 H & H not altogether uncommon you might say

    But wait

    His claim was, that with proper recipes you could handload the 375 in such a manner that, within 300 yards< the bullet flight, ie the point of impact would be, or could be made to be, the same whether you mounted a 235 gr bullet or anything in between up to and including a 310 grain projectile

    The point was a "series" of loads that would accomplish this feat.

    I imagined the efficiency of something like this. Proper loads at hand, same sight picture and irrespective of the round chambered, it would fall to the same point of impact. No scope or sight adjustment required

    Same individual claimed that all of these loads would (should) shoot as flat as a .30/06

    Thus, with one rifle and a fist full of proper hand loads you would be essentially ready for anything

    Quite a concept to be sure

    can it be done?

    Anyone 'done' it

    can't wait to hear
     
  2. PHOENIX PHIL

    PHOENIX PHIL AH Legend

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    A .30-06 shooting what bullet weight? As for the rest of this, that may be possible though I'm doubting it. The reason it MAY be possible because the heavier projectiles while initially slower will maintain there momentum better than the lighter projectiles. It's kind of like the difference between throwing a ping pong ball and a baseball.

    BUT, I'd want to see more details before I bought into this.
     
  3. Second Wind

    Second Wind AH Enthusiast

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    by this point, just select 3 - 7 letters, put them together in any given order and I am probably a lifetime member
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    Phil

    Now you get the feeling of where I am on this

    No mention of bullet weight on the .30/06 but I would guess prolly 180 just a guess but seems kind of std

    Alos I am no physics wizard but here is how I follow it

    first blush says slow down the light weight bullets and then speed up the heavy ones. Sounds good until that whole "momentum" things shows up

    Obviously a 235 gr bulley and a 300 gr bullet, launches at even the same velocity will shed speed at a different rate because of momentum

    My little mind can't figure out how to compensate for all the variables

    Which is why I asked for experienced people for assistance

    I am not saying you couldn't make it all work But, what I am saying, and assuming that it would it seems to me that by the time you worked it all out you would be standing ass deep in spent brass with a sore shoulder and a word out press

    Hence again, my thoughts (and request) for someone who might have accomplished this feat.

    Even just a starting point might save a few thousand rounds in trial and error

    You have to admit though, the concept is intriguing
     
  4. sestoppelman

    sestoppelman SILVER SUPPORTER AH Legend

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    If one has the time, money and enough shoulder pads to wear out and patience...I believe this could be made to happen. Simple matter of these days at least, throwing all the needed info into a computer and coming up with the approximate data and going to it. Why anyone would bother is beyond me but who knows. I'll bet the "wizard" never bothered with it.
     
  5. PHOENIX PHIL

    PHOENIX PHIL AH Legend

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    Sort of intriguing but I know I won't be bothered trying to figure it out. I've had all sorts of things told to me by "wizards" that one had to wonder where they got these things. A favorite of mine came from a friend and co-worker I knew that grew up in Montana hunting elk and mule deer.

    Well one morning a bunch of us were shooting the shinola about rifles, when he spoke up about the wonders of the dead flat shooting of a .300 Weatherby that a friend of his had. He then told us about the shot he saw this guy put on a mulie at 700 yards... measured. Hmmm thinks I and then asked, "So Hal, just how high of a hold did your buddy have?" He replies, "He aimed dead on the shoulder, amazing isn't it!" Yes says I, must get me some of them thar gravity defyin' boolits!
     
  6. BARTFRNCS

    BARTFRNCS AH Enthusiast

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    use a ballistics calulator will give you an idea of a good strating point.One qwestion, why? My CZ 550 shoots 270 gr tsx @2715fps that easily surpases 3006 trajectory. The reality is that at common field distances and from field positions 4 or 5 inches up or down would be hard to replicate every time.
     
  7. timbear

    timbear AH Enthusiast

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    Second Wind, I am almost ashamed to ask, but I take it your "wizard" had no loads tested? Did he at least tell you where he sourced this information?
     
  8. 35bore

    35bore AH Elite

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    If I am reading this correctly, (if I am not, please let me know), but the "wizard" in question says "one load", i.e. just say 77.2gr of IMR4350 or whatever his majical recipe is, and regardless of bullet weight it will have the same point of impact? I am not sure this is even possible, a 270gr. bullet would leave the tube at a higher velocity than a 300gr, therefore the gravitational pull of the earth would make this impossible. Physics 101 from high school, that's why in the days of old (pirates and Navy ships of the time((England, France, Spain, etc)) used more powder in the cannons for longer shots, and that was with cannonballs of the same weight.

    Think you wizard, is doing this in his dream state.

    Re-reading you post I saw that it was a series of loads, in which I agree with the others, the time and effort put into such an event would be almost impossible and not even fun. I think, you work up some pet loads, buy 2 scopes with QD rings and sight the individual scopes in with your selected load. Makes more since to me.
     
  9. Fritz Rabe

    Fritz Rabe AH Veteran

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    It is possible -theoretically- to do that IF you zero your scope at a given distance +-100y and then start playing with your reloads. This will NOT work as stated at ALL distances between muzzle and 300y. The reason is very simple - barrel vibrations, barrel whip.
    Every little difference in weight, speed and charge will result in a change in the barrel whip and therefore you will never get it to throw all the heads at the same trajectory out to 300y.

    You might get lucky and get 2 or 3 different loads to zero close together at a given distance but they will spread out at any other distance.
     
  10. spike.t

    spike.t GOLD SUPPORTER AH Legend

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    not knowing anything about hand loading, but if you had 3 different bullet weights couldnt you have the same point of impact say 200yds , simply by having different powder loads, so the heavier bullets have a higher velocity to combat drop from weight. so by having 3 different loadings you get the same zero with different bullet weights. or have i totally misunderstood what was written in the first place.......:headscratch:
     
  11. Wolverine67

    Wolverine67 AH Fanatic

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    That would teoretically work, but you would miss the advantage you get with lighter bullet (speed and trajectory) and you have to be aware of the pressure when loading for heavier bullets.
    But why? Take advantage of the pros you get using different bulletweight to different situations and game. And use the adjustments on your scope. Plain and simple.
     
  12. spike.t

    spike.t GOLD SUPPORTER AH Legend

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    thanks, glad i managed to make a bit of sense out of it. :satisfied: will stick with the more than one rifle option :)
     
  13. Second Wind

    Second Wind AH Enthusiast

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    thanks everyone for all the input...I did a little basic research and almost everything at any point on the trajectory, regardless of bullet weight (I am talking strictly factory loads here) is inside 2 inches of another...So, my conclusion is that the easiest thing is just to adjust for it or crank the scope a mite.

    When I narrow it down to say a 260/270 grain bullet compared to a 300 grain bullet the trajectory difference is, at best, negligible

    Further, is the rifle is sighted for the 260 grain bullets, the trigger puller probqably will not notice the difference when a 300 gr bullet is launched inside of 100 yds at DG

    As far as my "Wizard's" source for this tail chaser, that was not disclosed however, I am strongly suspect that it may have come from the pointy end of my bottle of 16 y.o. Scotch

    But thanks for everyone's participation
     
  14. ikeda

    ikeda AH Veteran

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    This is not magic at all. About five minutes research in an old Speer reloading manual tells me that with both loads zeroed at 100 yards, a Speer 235 gr. bullet with a BC of .317, with a muzzle velocity of about 2650 fps will have virtually the same point of impact at 300 yards as that of the 285gr Speer bullet with a BC of .354 departing the muzzle at 2600 fps..
    Any basic ballistics program will allow you to fine tune these results for virtually any bullet, as long as you can find out its ballistic coefficient.
     

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