308 with Fusion 150gr for plainsgame

Discussion in 'Up To .375' started by badboy124, Apr 19, 2014.

  1. badboy124

    badboy124 AH Member

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    Taking son to East Cape for plainsgame talked him into buying a 308 sighted in with Fusion 150gr ammo looked at ballistics not much difference from 165 gr a lot of reports on the 165.
     
  2. Norwegianwoods

    Norwegianwoods SILVER SUPPORTER AH Elite

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    I used 180 grain Fusion in a 30-06 on PG in 2011 and I highly recommend not to use it.
    It killed all my animals, but the bullets didn't do as well as I like at all.
    Specially considering all shots were clean broadside shots.
    It worked great on Springbok and Impala with DRT, but the penetration and damage on Black Wildebeest, Kudu and Gemsbok was lacklusters.

    I would imagine that the 150 grain Fusion in a 308 will do even worse.
    I think it is a good bullet for smaller PG and Whitetails, but not for the bigger PG.

    There are way better factory ammo for the 308 to use on PG in my opinion.
     
  3. BWH

    BWH GOLD SUPPORTER AH Veteran

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    Consider the Barnes TTSX or the Hornady GMX.... Better performers IMO.
     
  4. 35bore

    35bore AH Elite

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    wow, killed all the animals but you didn't like the performance? sorry, if they expanded the way they we're designed too, then where's the complaint? sounds to me like they did their job. then again, I question your statements while packing up Remington core lokt for coyote hunt. I like the energy dump theory, and to date it has served me just fine.
     
  5. Norwegianwoods

    Norwegianwoods SILVER SUPPORTER AH Elite

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    View attachment 063-2.jpg
    Perfectly broadside at 80 meters calmly grazing.
    You see the entrance hole.
    Ran 200+ meters with no blood on the ground and no exit wound.
    No bones but one rib hit.

    View attachment 005-1-3.jpg
    Perfectly broadside at 160 meters. Hit him in the center of the golden triangle.
    No exit wound and it took 20-25 secs till he stayed down. Was not able to shoot follow up shots because of heavy bushes between me and the animal.

    I doubt the bullet is designed for anything larger/heavier than Whitetail deer.
    They call it a bonded bullet, but I get better results from a 180 grain standard cup and core Lapua Mega bullet.
    I even get better results with a 155 grain Lapua Mega bullet in my 6.5x55 on Red deer and Fallow deer than I did with the 180 grain Fusion in 30-06.

    You might like the energy dump theory, but I prefer to have plenty of penetration and get a exit wound.
    I didn't want to risk a quartering shot on larger PG with that bullet when I saw the results from perfect broadside shots with nothing more than a rib hit.
     

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  6. BRICKBURN

    BRICKBURN SUPER MODERATOR CONTRIBUTOR GOLD BENEFACTOR AH Ambassador

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    I never understood the need for an exit wound until I had to try and track game on dry red soil.
    Somehow, it was always easier to track in the snow.
     
  7. enysse

    enysse AH Ambassador

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    Lapua Mega's might be a better bullet (IMO). There is nothing wrong with the Fusion or Core Lokt, energy dump works. But if you want an exit use TSX or TTSX.
     
  8. Velo Dog

    Velo Dog AH Elite

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    Good Morning Badboy124,

    Fusion projectiles seem to have a feeble track record for penetration.

    Nobody I know here in Alaska uses them, that I know of.

    My vote is with those who suggest tougher projectiles for Africa, and with those who prefer an exit wound, "blood out/ air in".

    As per my personal experience, for thin skinned game, I like Hornady RNSP (and "solid" where applicable, IE: Klipspringer, geese, etc, etc), also Nosler Partition and for the Record, Remington Core-Lokt, in that order.

    HOWEVER, for larger animals (moose, bear, eland, guldang wilderbeests, etc), only use these "old fashioned bullets" in HEAVY FOR CALIBER weights, the .308 possibly can't shoot them well over about 165 gr (accuracy, magazine length, etc).

    A PH friend of mine (John Luyt / Duke Safaris) keeps a .308 for clients to use and he culls with it.

    His load for client's to use is the 180 gr A-Frame but, that bullet is reportedly not accurate in all .308 rifles.

    Perhaps the 150 or 165 grain TXS and TTSX or whatever they're called, might be the thing for your son's .308?, you can reportedly use lighter weights/higher velocity with these, than with the bullets I recommend, indeed the TXS / TSSX possibly have to go fast or not expand, due to their lead-free, monolithic hard metal composition.

    Nowegianwoods has sacked quite a bit of game with them and he recommends them highly.

    Others have had good luck with them as well but, I notice they primarily use them in lighter weight for their calibers and thereby drive them at relatively high velocity and as such, they reportedly penetrate very well indeed, due to their "toughness".

    Light weight rather soft bullets are not the best tool in your box for taking large/tough animals like some of the African PG species.

    Regards,
    Velo Dog.
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2014
  9. RogerHeintzman

    RogerHeintzman AH Enthusiast

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    Badboy124,

    IMO and articles read, bullets are not made to provide exit wounds unless they are solids. If they do their job on the inside, they are to come to rest inside the skin on the opposite side.

    Fusions never grouped well for me and I haven't read articles about them in hunting situations. If they group in your son's gun and you have confidence in them use them. Just remember, it is all about "SHOT PLACEMENT."

    If you don't get much time to study "Shot Placement" on African game, Boddington and many Ouftitters/PH's will tell you to take the shoulder shot.

    Hope you two enjoy the safari.


    "A Dream can be relived, again and again in Africa."
     
  10. Norwegianwoods

    Norwegianwoods SILVER SUPPORTER AH Elite

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    Norma makes two great options in 308 win.

    A load with 165 grain Norma Oryx that is a properly bonded bullet that is rather soft, but holds properly together.
    Resulting in a big and reliable expansion. It is a bullet that fits the energy dump theory well, but since it sheds very little weight, it still penetrates much better than the Fusion.
    I know since I have practical hunting experience with both.

    The second Norma load is with a 165 grain Swift A-frame bullet.
    It is also bonded and is harder than the Oryx.
    It usually expands less, but penetrates more.

    Barnes also makes a great factory load in their Vor-Tx line in 308 win with a 150 grain TTSX bullet.
    Great penetration and good killing effect.

    If your son is to hunt Eland, I recommend the 165 grain Swift A-frame load or the 150 grain Barnes TTSX load.
    If not, all 3 loads will do great.
     
  11. Velo Dog

    Velo Dog AH Elite

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    Norwegianwoods,

    Excellent post.

    I confess to being ignorant as to what all is available in today's .308 factory live ammunition.

    If I had thought there was a mainstream company (Norma) offering the 165 gr A-Frame, in live .308 cartridges, I definitely would've suggested that badboy124 consider it (providing it is accurate in his son's rifle).

    And, I did not even think of the Oryx bullet option in factory live ammo (getting old and confused hahaa).

    I should have thought of it, because one of my friend's wife shoots nothing else in her 7mm-08 (160 gr Oryx handloaded by her husband) and has the greatest success with it in Africa.

    As for the TTSX, I have no experience with it but those who like it, including yourself, like it a lot.

    Two of my Alaska friends swear by it (one shoots a .260 Remington primarily for caribou and blacktail deer, and the other primarily shoots a .270 Winchester, for pretty much everything he hunts, in Alaska and African PG as well).

    None of my other friends use them, preferring primarily Hornady RNSP and Hndy Spire Points, plus lately A-Frames for larger animals, especially for Africa.

    One PH I have met liked X type bullets in his 7x64 very much for PG and the justifiably famous PH / Veterinarian / author, Kevin "Doctari" Robertson endorses them.

    Several other PHs I have spoken with about bullets say they fail to expand often enough that the A-Frame is the way to go for a premium soft.

    According to them, the A-Frame has never failed to perform as advertised, in their personal experiences.

    One of these days though, I do plan to try TSX and / or TTSX for myself, as per yours and others here, as well as my two "mono-metal" expanding bullets endorsing friends here at home, recommendations.

    Best Regards,
    Velo Dog.
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2014
  12. dory

    dory AH Senior Member

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    Im a great lover of the 243 -308 calibers and have hunted all over New Zealand with them both . Because of time constraints and never being at home long , I stopped reloading and started using factory ammo about 10 years ago .
    I shoot a light weight HS Precision rifle which is a top rig .
    But it is fussy on what it shoots . After trying all sorts of factory ammo I keep going back to Remington core lokt .
    It shoots extremly accurate and I love that thump you here when shooting big red stags here in nz .The odd animal has run for a while but there dead on there feet . shot placement , shot placement !
    Im bringing my 308 to Namibia next year and factory core lokt in 180 gr will be in my pack . A great factory round .
    cheers from Dory .
    From Stewart Island ,nz
     
  13. Code4

    Code4 AH Enthusiast

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    Fusions for PG ? Never.
     
  14. dory

    dory AH Senior Member

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    Someone moaned a bit about his 308 pills not going right through the animal .
    Nor they should , a good bullet will use all its energy up inside the animal and sit just under the hide on the opposite side of the entry wound .
    Core Lokt does this time after time .
    A good hunter is not always a marksman , A good hunter can stalk ,shoot and track for hours . Some animals will run for miles what ever calibre they are hit with .
    Long live the 308 .
    Cheers Dory .
     
  15. Norwegianwoods

    Norwegianwoods SILVER SUPPORTER AH Elite

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    If they run for miles or even some hundreds of meters after a hit, I for sure want a exit wound for easier tracking :)
     
  16. JGRaider

    JGRaider AH Veteran

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    Nosler partition is never a bad choice, ever.
     
  17. Velo Dog

    Velo Dog AH Elite

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    Run for your lives, Velo Dog is howling again,

    BLOOD OUT / AIR IN.

    Cheerio,
    El Doggo.
     
  18. Norwegianwoods

    Norwegianwoods SILVER SUPPORTER AH Elite

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    Velo Dog, I try to stop them breathing ;)

    Being serious, I know what you mean and agree :)
     
  19. Velo Dog

    Velo Dog AH Elite

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    Hello again Nowegianwoods,

    I totally agree with you.

    In my personal experience, large wild swine and Zebra just to name two of the many, are not the least bit impressed with "energy dump", or muzzle energy, or any other mathematical equations anyone would care to name.

    (Aside from brain/spine, or both shoulders broken asunder), the only wound that's better than a sucking chest wound is two sucking chest wounds, an inny and an outy.

    Blood out / Air in.

    "The most dangerous animals on earth walks on it's hind legs".

    Keep Well,
    Velo Dog.
     
  20. JGRaider

    JGRaider AH Veteran

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    I've only shot one zebra, the plains variety, last year in SA. One low shoulder shot with a .308 cal, 180gr partition....no exit....the zebra ran 30 yards, spun around a few times, and fell over graveyard dead. I've also killed hundreds of wild hogs with a 7-08 and 140 accbond. Monos not necessary.
     

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