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Black Lechwe said "If you consider one form of 'collecting' abnormal, then please apply it across the board.". He thinks that either every form of collecting should be seen as morally wrong, or non should (i.e. treat every collection hobby equally.) Then I tried to think of the most abhorrent...

Haha, Or maybe his argument was just silly. I hope he will alter it.

Are you saying that human head hunting should still be legal? There's not much to ponder over those images. One appalling thing is more easily preventable than the other. And people shouldn't stop caring about one appalling thing, just because another appalling thing is happening at the same time.

Do you want me to copy & paste text from those conservation organizations' websites? The place where I donate regularly is ALTA conservation. You can read about their 2015 projects here. I haven't done much research on reputable organizations that take donations for the African lion's...

They don't have the money. it's as simple as that. Well, most of them don't have; Leonardo DiCaprio donated $3 million to tiger conservation. As I said, even if trophy hunting funds conservation it's still considered morally bankrupt behavior by many. If trophy hunters can't explain it to the...

In social media comments, the vast majority of people just don't see the appeal in killing a lion for sport. Trophy hunting will continue to be a very controversial topic simply because of the moral issue, even if it funds conservation. Trophy hunters really need to engage the public and explain...

Two Zimbabweans freed on bail in death of Cecil the lion Two men arrested in the death of Cecil the lion -- a case in which an American dentist has also been accused, unleashing a torrent of anger online -- were released Wednesday by a court in Zimbabwe on $1,000 bail each.

Are you saying that everyone should support the moral absolutism that says "a human's life is intrinsically more valuable than an animal's life"? I'd like to hear some objective evidence on why that is true. I can imagine a situation where I'd save an animal's life over a human's life. I...

Please read the reply #66. What I later started to argue about was the moral issue (Reply #222). I know arguing about morals is pointless, but I just wanted to jump in again when someone else brought it up. Sure, if the money from the hunt goes to fund conservation, then that's great. But the...

I already know that. There are only 60 or so Amur Leopards left in the wild. (By the way, I donate money regularly to ALTA conservation). This thread just happens to be about the African lion. I also pointed out that the lion is a threatened species, and provided a source.

You clearly have nothing to add to the discussion.

The International Union for Conservation of Nature (IUCN) is the foremost authority on threatened species, and treats threatened species not as a single category, but as a group of three categories, depending on the degree to which they are threatened. (Source) Now I'm expecting you to say that...

Thanks for insulting me. Did you even read my previous posts? I changed my mind on the subject of can hunting be beneficial, and I admitted it. Please read the thread before posting. Do you have the mental capacity? This site just seems very hostile against anyone who has an opposing view. It...

Is the IUCN Red List also BS? Oh look! The Wikipedia article actually links there. I said that African Lion is a threatened species. You said it isn't. I posted a source. You said the source is BS. I gave a link to IUCN Red List (the world's most comprehensive inventory of the global...

I got the information from Wikipedia. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lion Is this information wrong? Different countries have different laws. Perhaps I'm wrong about the U.S' laws. A quick Google search didn't bring up anything too concrete about the issue, but here's an article from the UK...

I like how you inserted the words "murder" and "innocent" there. Firstly, an unborn baby is not a person, and therefore it can't be a murder. Secondly, the poached animal too was innocent, but also belonged to a threatened species, and was a tourist attraction and part of a research project.

That's because it is not the same lion. Here's what the lion looked like a month before it was killed. Link: Cecil the lion's final photograph I think only a small fraction of those who oppose trophy hunting are vegans. A 2008 poll in the U.S. found that only 3.2% of adults follow a vegetarian...

Hmm, fair enough. Good point! I want the meat but don't want to kill. I totally see your point. But how about the act of hunting for the sole purpose of getting a lion's head as an ornament? I see that as unnecessary killing. I'm not arguing it from the population management standpoint, but...

The food/dinner argument doesn't seem very convenient when we are talking about lion hunting. Most hunters say that they are giving the meat away to the locals. Trophy hunters simply don't go hunting lions in order to feed their own bellies, right? Factory farming is a necessity in the modern...

The hunt has been declared illegal. Cecil the lion's killer revealed as American dentist Theo Bronkhorst, a professional hunter with Bushman Safaris, is facing criminal charges for allegedly killing a collared lion on Antoinette farm in Gwayi Conservancy, Hwange district on 1 July 2015 All...

the words "enjoy killing" were taken from the video I posted. A professional hunter said those words. But let's leave it at that. This thread is over.

In the video above the professional hunter says the kill is the easiest part, and the other person mentions a 7 year old child who killed a warthog. But the vast majority of people who live in cities do not enjoy it. Most people don't feel the need to hunt animals, and don't enjoy watching...

hunthardsafaris, But can't a photographer experience all those things except the killing? They have to stalk the animal, spend a lot of time in harsh conditions, and have to act quickly when the time comes, and their trophy is a photo. As I understand it, the only difference is the killing part...

Hehe. Ricky Gervais seems to focus on the moral issues of trophy hunting. He doesn't really come from a scientific point of view. While I do agree with him that it is weird for someone to enjoy killing animals, I don't think arguing about morals is going to lead anywhere. It's like a debate...

All right. You made good points, and have changed my opinion on wild lion trophy hunting. I'll post here later if I come up with a better argument. Actually, yes. Here's a good 10 minute long mini documentary about the subject:

Perhaps you are right. However, there are studies that say trophy hunting is not a significant part of tourism revenues in Africa. http://www.ifaw.org/sites/default/files/Ecolarge-2013-200m-question.pdf How important is the trophy hunting industry? Trophy hunting advocates present the industry...

Now you are twisting my words. I didn't say that my 'plan' is based on emotions. I said that rhinos don't have as much of emotional impact on me as lions and other big predators do. We all have our favorite animals. I do value the scientific method over emotions when it comes to saving the...

That sounds reasonable. I'm fine with that. But I'm not as emotionally attached to rhinos as I am to the big predators (lions and leopards), so that may affect my opinion. If it were a lion, and lions were as critically endangered as the black rhino is, I'd like to be damn sure that the targeted...

I don't know the specific definition of 'Anti', but I think the prey species need equal protection, because without them there won't be any lions. Of course I don't want the locals to kill any of the animals the lions prey upon. There's more fuss about a shot lion than there is about a shot...

24 of 34 equals roughly 72% because 34*0.72= 24.48 The article doesn't mention if all of the tagged 62 lions were males (of which 34 died). 72% is a big figure. And all of them were males. I haven't criticized anyone here, and you are already calling me and my posts 'troll', 'bs' and 'anti'...

What strikes me the most is this bit in the article: From 1999 they (Wildlife Conservation Research Unit at Oxford University) began an ongoing ecological study of African lions in Hwange to measure the impact of sport-hunting beyond the park on the lion population within the park, using...

Northern Europe. Not a hunter, but someone who wants to understand how hunting works in Africa.

This news has been published by many sources: http://voices.nationalgeographic.com/2015/07/21/death-of-zimbabwes-best-loved-lion-ignites-debate-on-sport-hunting/ In short: Zimbabwe’s most well-known and much-photographed black-maned lion, named Cecil, was killed by sport hunters just outside...

The scientific arguments against canned hunting are the following: It doesn't help to conserve wild lions. The lion farms breed the animals based on criteria that satisfy hunters (mainly lions with bigger and darker mane, or white lions). It has nothing to do with preserving the genetic...

I really stressed that I was talking about canned hunting; the kind of hunting as seen in the video I linked.

Okay, I understand. I did read another comment elsewhere saying: "if there is no legally-sanctioned way of hunting these sorts of animals, people will do it illegally instead. Its the same with drug laws; its better to regulate and work on damage control than to completely abolish it. If we want...

Sorry, I wasn't able to link the specific time of the video. Watch from 28 min forward. Very similar reaction from lions as in your link.

Most of the lion trophies in South Africa actually are "raised to be hunted".

I've seen the video and understand the science. But as I said in one of my earlier messages, the problem is that the quotas are too high. Too many wild lions are being killed in trophy hunts. Trophy hunting can be sustainable, but right now in many countries it is NOT sustainable. See the...

I don't have "eminent expertise". By the way, why did you get so angry from my post? I only showed you scientific studies. I just read articles about wildlife and watch documentaries a lot. I'd say the lion in the picture is about 2 years old or less. I can't see the head to body ratio because...

Lighter nose means younger lion, dark nose means old lion. However this method alone is not enough to estimate the age accurately. For white lions it works quite well. More info here. CAustin , I was just showing you scientific studies, not just guesswork. Please read them before saying "They...

Wow, Bwannabe . That is a very young lion, I can see that from the color of its nose. Doesn't South Africa have any restrictions when it comes to lion's age? It also looks like a white lion, and white lions don't exist in the wild. Canned hunts don't have any conservation value. By the way...

Better surveillance around the tiger habitat and capital punishment for the poachers (they are the number one problem). At least I know that killing more of them in the name of sports won't help at all.

How low the wild lion population should plummet before they should be listed as endangered? It is very difficult to increase the genetic diversity of a species if there are only few animals. For example the wild tiger suffers from this.