25-06 AI

rottie said:

We have a trip to SA planned for next April.
We will be hunting Gemsbock,Kudu and some other smaller antelope species.
I am shooting a real tack driver in a 25-06 AI,it drives a 115 Nosler Partition at a chronographed velocity of 3297. This gives it 1397 ft-lbs at 400 yards

My question is to those that have more experience than I,will this combination work on the above animals,or will I be undergunned ?

Thxs guys

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I live and hunt in SA,i think that your 25-06 is to small a caliber to use.It is also very important in which area you will be hunting.

different areas have vary different bush,I personally wouldn't take anything less than a 30-06 but if you are limited to one rifle then use a 375 as sometimes depending on the area you are making shots through the bush and the smaller calibres can not do that.

your PH will give you the best advise.

rottie said:

Thanks,I have being fortunate enough to have had great coaching,trigger control and breathing are all second nature to me.
I do hovever need a fair bit of time using sticks,we will be on the East Cape,is the country going to be compatable with a sit behind bi pod ?
From the shot placement shots it looks like shoulder/in line with the shoulder are prefered is this correct?
As a newbie,lots of questions,and getting good answers and support

Thxs

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depends where in the Eastern Cape you will be,but the Eastern Cape can be mountainous

my choice would be either 338 WM or 375

View attachment 20966Morning Bob and the rest of you Gents

I will try and respond to all the above posts that I havent responded to yet
Yes I do handload,have around 30 years experience,so hopefully have a rough idea what I am trying to accomplish,we can always learn more though cant we.
I have recovered a few Partitions Bob but only on the Moose sized critters. Everything else has being pass throughs.The 115 Partition averaged 60 % of its original weight when recovered on the off impact side of the Moose. She would have being close to 300 yards out,this is what got me thinking of taking it with me to S.A

Caliber issue aside I really appreciate the shooting style technique advice. Here I am used to shooting from prone or sitting behind a Harris Bi-pod.
I am going to have to start stick practicing more,the trigger time certainaly wont hurt

To the suggestion of a .375, if I purchase a new firearm,I think I will go a bit smaller. I just sold a old Rem 700 in 375,my beat up old body hates recoil these days. Using a 235 grain slug in it was too much,it was starting to affect how I shot.How would you guys feel about a 30-06 with 165/180 Partitions.

I may end up taking the AI with and using my partners 30-06 on the larger animals. I was hoping to avoid passing a gun back and forth though,with my luck I will have the wrong one in my hands when that trophy Kudu / Gemabock steps out. To those that have gone the 2 gun route,how workable was it ?

If I can get it to post I will show a 3 shot group shot, shot at 100yards with the AI,it will show why I like shooting it so much.

Thank you all for your thoughts and input,its makeing me think,which is never a bad thing lol
Shareing your wealth of knowledge is what its all about, hopefully one day I will be able to help a newguy as well,pay it foreward so to speak.

bassasdaindia said:

I live and hunt in SA,i think that your 25-06 is to small a caliber to use.It is also very important in which area you will be hunting.

different areas have vary different bush,I personally wouldn't take anything less than a 30-06 but if you are limited to one rifle then use a 375 as sometimes depending on the area you are making shots through the bush and the smaller calibres can not do that.

your PH will give you the best advise.

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I have sent the ph a email,hopefully when he has a spare momenbt away from clients he will get back to me.

Right now I am leaning in your direction and am inclined towards looking for a 30-06.

Nothing like the voice of experience,thanks for shareing yours,again like all the others I appreciate your in put

Diamondhitch said:

This is a great point, everything is tucked right in around those big upper leg bones and the shoulders. A lot of good solid double lung hits on NA game would be paunch on African game.



I feel sorry for the Duikers! LOL

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I have shot little guys with my .375 with no problem at all. Like a lot of .375s mine shoots 300gr TSXs and solids into the same group. A 300gr solid makes a very effective duiker wacker so long as you avoid the front shoulder.

rottie, I haven't been on this forum in a while and I just saw your thread. You've been given a lot of good advise. You're obviously an experienced North American hunter and I read that you've killed moose and elk with your 25-06 AI. The PG animals that you listed that you want to hunt are all smaller that a moose or mature bull elk.

I've hunted with a .257 AI for a little over 30 years, and have made one shot kills on dozens of deer, antelope, several bighorn and a Dall sheep, a mountain caribou, and a 6x6 bull elk -- all with 117 gr Sierra GameKing bullets. I believe bullet placement is most important, then bullet construction, then bullet diameter.

I believe your .25-06AI would do fine for the animals you want to hunt IF your shots are good and you don't shoot at extreme ranges. Something else to remember about hunting in Africa is that if you draw blood on an animal, you pay for it, even if you don't find it.

I've hunted Africa 4 times, and have used a variety of cartridges and rifles.

On my first African hunt I used a 7mm Rem mag shooting 140 gr Ballistic tip bullets. I made one shot kills on a kudu, gemsbok, blue wildebeest, and several smaller antelope. The only problem that I had was a waterbuck bull that I shot behind his shoulder and the BT bullet went completely through him. It took us 5 days to find him, and the whole time the outfitter/PH kept telling me that my caliber was too small and the bullet was too light and not constructed properly. On the 5th evening we found that waterbuck bull, still running with the herd, and not showing any ill effects of my previous shot. As soon as we identified the bull, the outfitter shot with his .375 H&H then I shot again with my 7 Rem.

The bull dropped, and when we got to him we found two 7mm holes in his chest, and one .375 hole in one of his front feet. My first shot had entered behind one shoulder and exited behind his other shoulder. It was not a gut or paunch shot. He had licked both wounds from that shot clean.

On my second hunt in Africa I took both a .375 Rem Ultra mag shooting 300 gr TSX bullets, and another 7mm Rem mag shooting 160 gr Accubond bullets. One of the PHs (who also shot a 7 RM) was very impressed with the large internal wound channels that those Accubonds left in the antelope that I shot with them.

On my third African hunt, I hunted several properties and concessions in the Eastern and Southern Cape of South Africa. The only rifle that I took was my .375 RUM with 270 gr TSX bullets. That combo worked great for everything that I shot from steenbok to cape eland, although the holes in a jackal and steenboks were substantial. I also borrowed a .308 Win with FMJ bullets from my PH for my cape grysbok.

The terrain that we hunted varied from flat to open plains and hills to brushy hills and valleys. Several animals that I shot on that hunt, I shot from prone positions, several from sitting positions, and several others from standing with shooting sticks.

At one stock pond where I was hunting a cape bushbuck, my PH, our tracker, and I were hiding behind a broken down barb wire fence and had a mature cape kudu bull feed around the pond to within 5 yards of us. (I posted a few pics of that bull in the Africa Nature and Wildlife gallery)

Last year I again hunted South Africa, and I used my .300 Weatherby with 168 gr TTSX bullets. That was also a plains game hunt for animals from a klipspringer to a sable. On this hunt I shot two small cats from a blind, 3 animals from the sticks, the klipspringer at 314 yds from a kneeling position, and the sable offhand. My .300 Weatherby and the 168 gr TTSX bullets worked superbly on that trip.

A hunt to Africa is a great excuse to buy a new rifle as long as you practice enough with it before your trip. For an experienced elk and moose hunter, the rifle that you are comfortable with hunting those animals should be ok for most African plains game.

Thank you for your advice.
I have decided that a 30-06 Remington 700 will travel with me.
After talking to guys like your self with more experince than myself on PG,I have decided that although my 25-06AI would more than likely work I would rather error on the side of caution.

I have being talking to a couple gents who live in SA and their advice parallels yours,they like yourself have being real helpfull

So taking all the advice under consideration,I have being working up handloads using 165 Nosler Partitions. So far I am getting 1 inch groups at at a chronographed velocity of 2753 fps.

I will probably play with 180 grain NPs next

Once load development is finalized I will be practicing off a sit behind bi-pod and shooting sticks

I want to thank all you guys who have responded,you have all helped in my preparing for what will more than likely be my one and only trip over seas

Thanks to all,once the trip is done I will let ya all know how we did

Ian

I,ve just been a Lurker here as I,m in the process on deciding between a few Candidates to take to SA next Year,,I just Love my 6.5 Swede ,,so its, going to be a battle between My 7MM Rem and my 06,,,so I,ll be experimenting with loads and powder this year

Thats part of the fun in planning these trips isnt it,finding what we hope will be the perfect combination of firearm and load

If you read the entire thread,I have recieved so, real good points and advice.
Maybe some of this will help yourself in planning

Good luck on your hunt,have fun working up your rifle loads

rottie said:

So taking all the advice under consideration,I have being working up handloads using 165 Nosler Partitions. So far I am getting 1 inch groups at at a chronographed velocity of 2753 fps.

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As a severely afflicted OCD reloader, I would advise you to stop right there. Nice velocity, but not too fast to cause too rapid expansion of the Partition, but still enough to get good penetration.

Thank you,thats sound advice
I kinda figured that the velocity is enough. Any more and either I need to try another bullet or step up in caliber,say a .300 Win.

This load I am hoping will work, 180 grains are going to be played with next

rottie said:

Thank you,thats sound advice
I kinda figured that the velocity is enough. Any more and either I need to try another bullet or step up in caliber,say a .300 Win.

This load I am hoping will work, 180 grains are going to be played with next

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If you step up to a .300 Win, you might as well go up to a heavier .375, recoil is virtually the same. In fact, I'd rather shoot my .375 with 250gr North Forks going 2850 than my .300 Win Mag shooting 200gr North Forks at the same velocity.

The weight of my M70 Safari Express being a pound heavier than the M70 in .300 Win Mag makes the difference.

rottie said:

Thank you for your advice.
I have decided that a 30-06 Remington 700 will travel with me.
After talking to guys like your self with more experince than myself on PG,I have decided that although my 25-06AI would more than likely work I would rather error on the side of caution.

I have being talking to a couple gents who live in SA and their advice parallels yours,they like yourself have being real helpfull

So taking all the advice under consideration,I have being working up handloads using 165 Nosler Partitions. So far I am getting 1 inch groups at at a chronographed velocity of 2753 fps.

I will probably play with 180 grain NPs next

Once load development is finalized I will be practicing off a sit behind bi-pod and shooting sticks

I want to thank all you guys who have responded,you have all helped in my preparing for what will more than likely be my one and only trip over seas

Thanks to all,once the trip is done I will let ya all know how we did

Ian

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What you have in that load is a .308 Win. Nothing wrong with that but its still a .308 load. If you are going to go to the trouble and expense of moving up in caliber/rifle, get the most out of it. A 165 can get 2900 in an '06 and the 180 can go the 2750, sometimes 2800 though not easy to do. I still think you were well armed for the critters you talked about with the 25-06AI. The Nosler Partition can handle another 150fps no problem if you do the '06.

Think I will stick to the 30-06,I sold a .375 because a neck injury wont allow the recoil. So hopefully this load or one close to it works

sestoppelman said:

What you have in that load is a .308 Win. Nothing wrong with that but its still a .308 load. If you are going to go to the trouble and expense of moving up in caliber/rifle, get the most out of it. A 165 can get 2900 in an '06 and the 180 can go the 2750, sometimes 2800 though not easy to do. I still think you were well armed for the critters you talked about with the 25-06AI. The Nosler Partition can handle another 150fps no problem if you do the '06.

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2750 and a 165gr in .308 Win? Man I'd like to know your load for that Ses. The most I could get accurately was 2600. I could get a little more but not as accurate and pressure signs coming on.

sestoppelman said:

What you have in that load is a .308 Win. Nothing wrong with that but its still a .308 load. If you are going to go to the trouble and expense of moving up in caliber/rifle, get the most out of it. A 165 can get 2900 in an '06 and the 180 can go the 2750, sometimes 2800 though not easy to do. I still think you were well armed for the critters you talked about with the 25-06AI. The Nosler Partition can handle another 150fps no problem if you do the '06.

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So far I havent seen any pressure signs on the load I have being playing with so I try and boost it to see if I can gain a bit of velocity with out loosing any of theaccuracy this load is showing

Thxs

rottie said:

Think I will stick to the 30-06,I sold a .375 because a neck injury wont allow the recoil. So hopefully this load or one close to it works

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Don't go to the .300 Win unless it was particularly heavy or had a mercury recoil reducer. I don't mind the recoil, but I know it's a bit too sharp for some. With a prior neck injury, I think I'd stay away from it. Your 30-06 load should be just fine.

PHOENIX PHIL said:

Don't go to the .300 Win unless it was particularly heavy or had a mercury recoil reducer. I don't mind the recoil, but I know it's a bit too sharp for some. With a prior neck injury, I think I'd stay away from it. Your 30-06 load should be just fine.

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Thxs,had a .300 Win years ago,sold it for the same reason as the .375,a bad neck/back has regretfully limited my recoil tolerence. The 300win..375 H&H never used to bother me,regretfully it does now

So I try and stick to the mid range calibers and just get a bit fussier on shot placement

PHOENIX PHIL said:

2750 and a 165gr in .308 Win? Man I'd like to know your load for that Ses. The most I could get accurately was 2600. I could get a little more but not as accurate and pressure signs coming on.

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Well my friend, a quick glance at my stack of manuals shows many such loads listed and some that exceed it by considerable, up to 2900fps! Now thats not something I would try as that is like a normal max for .30-06 but it is a listed load. Most all of my manuals list loads well over 2700fps. I dont recall that I have chronoed any such loads as i usually only shoot .308 in target type rifles within the usual range of speeds for the 168 and 175 gr match bullets. I do recall years ago that I was driving the 185 Lapua to around 2600fps out of a Super Match M1A. 2750 is not outrageous for the 165 at all.

sestoppelman said:

Well my friend, a quick glance at my stack of manuals shows many such loads listed and some that exceed it by considerable, up to 2900fps! Now thats not something I would try as that is like a normal max for .30-06 but it is a listed load. Most all of my manuals list loads well over 2700fps. I dont recall that I have chronoed any such loads as i usually only shoot .308 in target type rifles within the usual range of speeds for the 168 and 175 gr match bullets. I do recall years ago that I was driving the 185 Lapua to around 2600fps out of a Super Match M1A. 2750 is not outrageous for the 165 at all.

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Barrel length on my son's Tikka may be a bit short too. I've seen the same listed in the manuals, but never have come close before pressure signs set in or the groups were opening up badly. My swift manual shows 2795 for the 165gr A-Frame and 46.5gr of Varget. I think we pushed 2680 or something close, but in that case the accuracy went out the door. For whatever reason 44gr of Varget is the trick no matter what the bullet in that rifle.