Concern about Deposit Refund Policy - Bushwack

Well said Bigun. I can't add anything more John, please keep active here as you are able.

huntingbigun said:

John

May God give you the strength and power to beat the cancer, I had to cancel couple hunts on short notice when my first wife got breast cancer and over the next 14 months as we fought the battle together I never worried about the money or hunts. After She lost the battle both outfitters rebooked the hunt, so at least for me it was standard business deal. They did not have to but wanted too, so I agree maybe when your emotions and shock from your diagnosis wear off you can step back and take another look at the offer he made you. So you have the right idea about focus on your battle and then you can plan a celebration hunt.

Welcome to AH and prayers for a speedy recovery after you win your battle.

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Very well said and I totally agree.

+1 :agree:

What expenses could Bushwack possibly have not to refund the guy at least something? I've never heard of paying someone (in this case, the PH) in full BEFORE they do a job? That's crazy. You don't pay someone for a job before they perform it??? Really?? I guess I don't understand what possible expenses Bushwack encountered that he couldn't send the hunter at least a partial refund?

I realize this thread has probably run its course and everyone seems to have their opinion but as a business owner myself, I would have sent the guy the money back given the circumstances. If someone pre-pays me for a service that I don't perform, they are entitled for a return of their money. Yeah, some of you have said read the contract while others have said he should have gotten insurance, but I think Bushwack should have offered the guy a refund. If he can afford for the guy to come next year on that same deposit, why can't he send back the money this year? Doesn't add up to me.

Your opinion is noted, I did not see that a ph was paid in advance........ deposits lock in dates... That is what they are for......however should a hunt be cancelled you should in my honest opinion pay a contracted ph as it is the right thing to do as he has just lost a substantial amount of his income due to such a cancellation, outfitters convince clients to try Africa, Ph's get'em hooked and keeps'em coming back, any decent outfitter knows this, and should back a contracted ph. Professionals do this for a living not for a part time or fun past time... It puts food on the table and their kids through school (WE MUST REMEMBER THIS)

Hunting in Africa for a full time guide or ph is not a 6 week thing you hunt 170 - 200 plus days a season and spend time marketing in foreign countries...

As far as the deposit return go I have said what I wanted but lets look at possible expenses, just to give a flip side...

1. Ph contracted in advance for mentioned safari (should be paid) $150 per day (experienced ph) this could even include a couple $ hundred in fuel per purchased...

2. Stock bought for safari this could be booze,food..... Can get extremely pricy pending outfit and quality of what you put forward.

3. Some (AND I WOULD LIKE TO SAY AGAIN SOME) outfitters buy game in advance or prior to clients arrival whether we like it or not it happens.

4. Myself and RH contract a qualified chef for every single safari so the same would apply to her as would to the ph...

5. Not to forget the loss of BUISINESS THE OUTFITTER NEEDS TO RECOUP IN SOME WAY OR MANNER AS HE HAS A FULL TIME MACHINE/ OR MONEY GOBLING MONSTER (ranch!!!!) to feed.

Mtstewart there is no easy way to solve this, and hanging an outfitter for not returning the deposit in a safari cancelled 5 days before arrival is also not the right thing to do in my personal capacity depending on how large the deposit was a partial return could be offered, but that depends on each and every individual.... There are options to cover incidents like these and guys should carefully consider all possibilities before they sign contracts...... Just like every where else in the world, going to Africa is not to be taken lightly as you the client part with hard earned money that you and no one else worked for....

Think about it and make sure you look at all the options, it would avoid circumstances like these...

My best always

:clapping: nicely put jaco :thumb:

I understand your point of view. Mine was more to the point of the special circumstances.... A diagnosis of CANCER! If the guy just changed his mind then too damn bad, his loss. Booze, food, and fuel will still be used by someone else and likely won't go bad. Again, if that same deposit allows the guy to hunt next year, then where's the harm in a partial refund? I think the hunter offered to forfeit part of the deposit to cover these expenses. I find it hard to believe that he blocked another client out of camp when he reserved his dates due to the fact he booked everything on short notice. If I have read everything correctly, he booked his hunt less than a month in advance and cancelled a few weeks later. Had he booked a year ago, then different story. I think both sides are getting a bad deal here but I'm sure the hunter did not ask to get cancer. He only came to this forum looking for a way to get some of his $ back.

i can see where both sides are coming from, but if insurance had been taken out we wouldnt have had any of this .

mstewart44 said:

I understand your point of view. Mine was more to the point of the special circumstances.... A diagnosis of CANCER! If the guy just changed his mind then too damn bad, his loss. Booze, food, and fuel will still be used by someone else and likely won't go bad. Again, if that same deposit allows the guy to hunt next year, then where's the harm in a partial refund? I think the hunter offered to forfeit part of the deposit to cover these expenses. I find it hard to believe that he blocked another client out of camp when he reserved his dates due to the fact he booked everything on short notice. If I have read everything correctly, he booked his hunt less than a month in advance and cancelled a few weeks later. Had he booked a year ago, then different story. I think both sides are getting a bad deal here but I'm sure the hunter did not ask to get cancer. He only came to this forum looking for a way to get some of his $ back.

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I also mentioned the partial refund, I do believe that we are going round in circles....

Thx spike... My very best always

John - You are in my prayers to beat this terrible disease. God bless.

This thread has evoked a lot of emotion in our members. Understandably, it is one of those things that everyone will never agree 100% on. For what it's worth I agree with all that Jaco has said and we all need to remember that they are running a business and have obligations. Charity is a personal thing that can only be decided on by the individual. Do you look down on the person that has just followed up your donation to the church of $200, with one of his own of $10? Probably not. We all do what we can do, when we can. Again, it's a personal decision, not for any forum member to judge.

To me, this threads time would be better spent learning from this bad situation. It has been discussed that Travel insurance would have prevented this whole thing. I'm not sure. The speed in which the hunt was booked may have prevented the policy to pay out. Most have minimum time limits prior to scheduled departure. The important thing is to try and plan as far in advance as possible. I know sometimes "last minute deals" pop up and look too good to pass up, but be ready to "weigh the risks" associated with trying to get everything done in a short time frame. For me personally, this would eliminate half the fun as I really enjoy the planning piece!

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