Plains Game Rifle Selection

michaelhh375 said:

timbear.
You are correct. 270 gr RN bullets, result of these IMPALA bullets are amazing. I have convinced a lot of friends to try IMPALA for what ever caliber they have, from 222-458 LOTT, not one has changed back to "old" ammo !
As said before, i have only used my Sako TRG S HH375 for all kinds of hunting and all kinds of animals. However, I recently bought a BRNO Safari 416 Rigby, why ? couldn't resist the story of this gun ! Got some IMPALA 350 gr RN ammo, booked second Moz adventure, for this year, and test of 416R will be done for 18-21 days in August.

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I am so looking forward to that hunting report. Have a great time and enjoy every minute!
P.S. If you see a green glow in the direction of Australia, that's just me envying you!

Second Wind said:

Phil, I probably wasn't as clear as I should have been. For PG I am just going to take the .375 in the event of a breakdown I will just use one of th PH's camp rifle. On a hunt that includes Buf or something larger and includes PG ( like say Buf and sable or Buf and Roan) I will pack them both.

My working theory is to carry a rifle large enough to address the largest game I might encounter on any given outing.

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That is a interesting choice for a one gun rifle to Africa....best of luck to you! Having shot a 416 Rigby....there is no way I would want it to be my plains game rifle. Trying to make a fine shot with that much power would be a recipe for disaster...for me at least.

SW, with all due respect, packing a .375 and a .416 is sort of like taking a 300 WM and 338 WM for plains game. If you are stalking a waterhole with your 338 with eland in mind and you discover a trophy Impala instead, would you send back to the truck for the .300? Probably not.

The .375 and the .416 are both fine DG rifles which double for plains game, with the .375 a bit better on PG and the .416 a bit better on the big stuff. Both calibers essentially serve the same function. So unless you are taking a back-up, I really don't get it.

I think real value exits in a PG rifle for hunting PG where DG (excluding leopards) are not a quarry or significant encounter issue. For such work you have been given a number of recomendations. A .375 will work for that hunt, but it will be a little heavier than it needs to be, and if in really open country, you may entail some disadvantage (Hartman zebra, springbok, and open country gemsbok come to mind.) For a DG game hunt where PG will also be hunted either the .416 or the .375 will work. I prefer the latter because it can be put together quite a bit lighter than the typical .416.

I can think of any number of situations where a .416 and 338 WM would make sense or a .375 and .300. Just don't see the .375 and the .416. Suspect if you go with that combo, it won't look that logical to you in hindsight either. Hey, but it's your weight allowance. Enjoy.

I can think of any number of situations where a .416 and 338 WM would make sense or a .375 and .300. Just don't see the .375 and the .416. Suspect if you go with that combo, it won't look that logical to you in hindsight either. Hey, but it's your weight allowance. Enjoy.

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I agree, +1

enysse said:

I agree, +1

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enysee.
Agree with you, why HH375 and 416 R ? hmmm... Once again.... HH375 and correct ammo. Enough gun for all games.

Gentlemen,

Again, thank you all for the effort put forth in your responses. I must confess, I believe that this forum joins wisdom, experience and common sense on what can be a very complex subject.

It seems at some point along the way the wheels came off the cart and I need to back up the bus just a tad.

I have come to the conclusion that for a PG rifle, the .375 Holland, while perhaps just a little over-gunned, offers pretty substantial performance out to about 300 yds. All of these shots are not going to be stock still broadside views so I feel the .375 offers a little extra insurance on a less than optimum shot.

Now I know all about shot placement and would never take shot that I felt in doubt about, however, I have hunted for almost 50 years and accept that when dealing with wild animals things do happen and a .375 is going to cover a lot of sins.

So my PG rifle will be the .375 Holland throwing a super - premium bullet like a Woodleigh Hydro or Impala. I shoot the gun a lot and am quite comfortable with it out to about 300 yds.

Then why the .416 R, well this is where I seemed to confuse everyone. It's really quite simple though.

Moving to a little different kind of set -up where you would combine buffalo with something like a sable or roan, and I believe that was the example I previously spoke of, I considered two (2) elements:

#1 I just would prefer not to have a close and personal discussion face-to-face over muzzle energy, ballistic coefficients or bullet selection with a less than fully entertained cape buffalo. While the .375 Holland is adequate to the task the .416 R picks up the pace substantially when confronting an animal not thoroughly enamored with my presence. Besides, my gray-haired Mother will sleep better.

#2 If, in the process, I happen upon the sable or roan while in possession of the Rigby, I do not feel either will take personal offense. Inside of 250 yds it seems to me to be a workable arrangement and all present will just need to deal.

So, there is my rational in a nutshell, two entirely different rifles for two entirely different hunts. I know it leans toward the heavy side and I accept that and perhaps in the future I will make changes. however, my desire now is to get there with one rifle sufficient to the task required in each of these two distinctly different hunting situations.

Finally, there is a school of thought that would suggest ditching the .416 and taking on all comers with the .375 and I also find considerable merit in that approach.

As always, input, comment and advice is always welcome and appreciated.

375H&H plus a 416 will certainly handle anything that you will encounter. I would suggest that you bring some solids for the 375 as the softs can leave a rather big hole in smaller plainsgame. The solids, on the other hand, will zip right through leaving a small hole. Of course you have to make sure that the small hole is in the right place.
I can't say that I disagree with your choice as I was scheduled for a cape Buffalo/plainsgame hunt this summer and planned to take a 404J and a 375H&H. The plainsgame included wildebeest, zebra, eland and gemsbuck so the 375 was not really over kill. Unfortunately due to business problems I have had to put off the hunt until May. What will I take then? By then I will have probably have changed my mind several times. Either the 404J, 416Rigby, 458WM or 470NE for the larger rifle, and the 375, 300H&H Mag, 30-06 or 7X57 for the lighter rifle. This assumes that I won't buy something new by then. Lord help me, I just can't make up my mind. Do yourself a favor, buy one heavy and one light and you will save money (on reloading equipment, supplies and ammo) and will save endless agonizing. That's it! I'll sell everything but the 404 and the 30-06 and just hunt with those. Or maybe the 458 and the 7X57. But how can you not have a 375? What about an H&H double: 375 and 300? I think I need a 12 step program. My name is Terry and I'm a gun whore.

Second Wind said:

Gentlemen,

Again, thank you all for the effort put forth in your responses. I must confess, I believe that this forum joins wisdom, experience and common sense on what can be a very complex subject.

It seems at some point along the way the wheels came off the cart and I need to back up the bus just a tad.

I have come to the conclusion that for a PG rifle, the .375 Holland, while perhaps just a little over-gunned, offers pretty substantial performance out to about 300 yds. All of these shots are not going to be stock still broadside views so I feel the .375 offers a little extra insurance on a less than optimum shot.

Now I know all about shot placement and would never take shot that I felt in doubt about, however, I have hunted for almost 50 years and accept that when dealing with wild animals things do happen and a .375 is going to cover a lot of sins.

So my PG rifle will be the .375 Holland throwing a super - premium bullet like a Woodleigh Hydro or Impala. I shoot the gun a lot and am quite comfortable with it out to about 300 yds.

Then why the .416 R, well this is where I seemed to confuse everyone. It's really quite simple though.

Moving to a little different kind of set -up where you would combine buffalo with something like a sable or roan, and I believe that was the example I previously spoke of, I considered two (2) elements:

#1 I just would prefer not to have a close and personal discussion face-to-face over muzzle energy, ballistic coefficients or bullet selection with a less than fully entertained cape buffalo. While the .375 Holland is adequate to the task the .416 R picks up the pace substantially when confronting an animal not thoroughly enamored with my presence. Besides, my gray-haired Mother will sleep better.

#2 If, in the process, I happen upon the sable or roan while in possession of the Rigby, I do not feel either will take personal offense. Inside of 250 yds it seems to me to be a workable arrangement and all present will just need to deal.

So, there is my rational in a nutshell, two entirely different rifles for two entirely different hunts. I know it leans toward the heavy side and I accept that and perhaps in the future I will make changes. however, my desire now is to get there with one rifle sufficient to the task required in each of these two distinctly different hunting situations.

Finally, there is a school of thought that would suggest ditching the .416 and taking on all comers with the .375 and I also find considerable merit in that approach.

As always, input, comment and advice is always welcome and appreciated.

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Second Wind, Your arguments for .375 and .416 are unassailable, and the wording positively poetic. Go with your choice, because this is what you seem to feel comfortable with. And, to quote Col. Hannibal Smith of the A-Team: "Overkill is underestimated!" Enjoy your hunt, I hope you have a great time!

Timbear

"Overkill is underestimated"

I am having that tatoo'd on my butt tomorrow!

Thanks

Second Wind said:

Timbear

"Overkill is underestimated"

I am having that tatoo'd on my butt tomorrow!

Thanks

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Second Wind, I am intending to do all of my hunting here in Australia with my .375 H&H to get really comfortable with it and prepare for the time when I will finally make it to Africa, and I am intending to engrave that motto on a plaque and inlay it in MY butt - riflebutt, that is!

TerryR said:

375H&H plus a 416 will certainly handle anything that you will encounter. I would suggest that you bring some solids for the 375 as the softs can leave a rather big hole in smaller plainsgame. The solids, on the other hand, will zip right through leaving a small hole. Of course you have to make sure that the small hole is in the right place.
I can't say that I disagree with your choice as I was scheduled for a cape Buffalo/plainsgame hunt this summer and planned to take a 404J and a 375H&H. The plainsgame included wildebeest, zebra, eland and gemsbuck so the 375 was not really over kill. Unfortunately due to business problems I have had to put off the hunt until May. What will I take then? By then I will have probably have changed my mind several times. Either the 404J, 416Rigby, 458WM or 470NE for the larger rifle, and the 375, 300H&H Mag, 30-06 or 7X57 for the lighter rifle. This assumes that I won't buy something new by then. Lord help me, I just can't make up my mind. Do yourself a favor, buy one heavy and one light and you will save money (on reloading equipment, supplies and ammo) and will save endless agonizing. That's it! I'll sell everything but the 404 and the 30-06 and just hunt with those. Or maybe the 458 and the 7X57. But how can you not have a 375? What about an H&H double: 375 and 300? I think I need a 12 step program. My name is Terry and I'm a gun whore.

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Yip Terry, you've really got it bad mate!!! :sweat:
It's like when you're 16 - so many 'choices'....:hmmmer:
Good post, had me chuckling there!

Dear Timbear.

"Overkill is underestimated!"

Sometimes, a word or a sentence, will follow you, rest of life, the " Overkill is underestimated" will always be with me ! So very correct !
Thanks for sharing !
Michael

michaelhh375 said:

Dear Timbear.

"Overkill is underestimated!"

Sometimes, a word or a sentence, will follow you, rest of life, the " Overkill is underestimated" will always be with me ! So very correct !
Thanks for sharing !
Michael

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I agree 100 percent!

Thanks everyone. I loved the quote from the first time I heard it. Truer words were rarely spoken, so I will use it as my signature from now on. As Second Wind pointed out earlier, "deader" is not a word in English!

Take the gun you feel the most comfortable with! My choice would be the 30/06 as the primary plains game gun which will off set your 375 very nice. I have had no problems with anything I have shot in Africa and it will be my gun of choice for pklains game in future trips to Africa!

Hi Second wind,

Would recommend the The EMPEROR of all calibers the .375 H&H magnum, it would be a enough rifle for all your listed plain game species on your hunt list. 235 to 300 grs would be ample to take them all ....

Monish

Your choices are bothl good . Have used the .375 for everything from Oroby to Buffalo and only used one rifle. On the other hand I have taken more game in africa with the 30 06. The 300 win is a great caliber. If I was you I would take the one you are most comfortable with. If ur 06 is old death and distruction dont leave it at home. Same goes for the 300. If you go after a Eland though take the .375, they can be a bugger if you dont make the first shot perfect. Pay attention to taking good well constructed bullits for the 06 or the 300 ,I would say that is more important.

I find it irritating that people will recommend a smaller caliber on the notion that shot placement is everything. Of course shot placement is everything. It is everything with a larger caliber also!

This should be the final word on caliber and bullet selection for international hunting trips: shoot the biggest caliber you are comfortable with with the heaviest bullet you can for your intended shot distance with a bullet that retains 95% of its mass. And yes, shot placement is everything, regardless of the caliber rifle chosen. When spending thousands of dollars, perhaps tens of thousands on a trip and committing 10 to 30 days in the field; and knowing all you'll keep is the hide and horns, your principle objective should be to kill. Factor in all the intangibles such as bad angles, brush and twigs, the toughness of African game and the fact that they simply don't bleed, the ability of you and your PH to track game and the dangers of following a wounded animal into the bush, my question is why would you choose a smaller caliber rifle at all? For prestige? I'll tell you what, if I'm spending more on one animal in Africa then I would spend in 5 years of whitetail hunting, give me a cannon if I am comfortable shooting it. That animal is going down and fast.

Gentle Readers and Distinguished Gentlemen,

A few more thoughts from the maniac that started all this:

Okay, Bell slayed thousands of elephant with a .275 Rigby (7 X 57), O'Connor cleaned house in all of North America with his trusty .270;

I see two (2) problems:

#1 If all the stories are true, I ain't that good. Never was , never will be;

#2 As all of us sports fans know, some of the less that storied parts of an adventure end up on the cutting room floor. No one knows or will ever know how many elephants Bell wounded or shots that went "bad" for one reason or other. Same with Jack.

That part of the story just never gets told and for good reason and I am not about to quibble with the written accounts of an International Treasure.

However, ultimately, whether we are hunting elephant in Tanzania or prairie dogs in Kansas our primary task at the apex of the hunting experience is to dispatch our quarry with as much efficiency as can be brought to bear.

Normally, whether it be in Africa, Alaska or South Texas, there is not an abundance of time to manufacture a set-up, plot a firing solution and send it. Most shots are of the "see it, kill it, right now" variety.

Hence, my decision for a straight PG hunt is the .375 Holland and for a combination hunt of buffalo and something like Roan or Sable, the .416 Rigby. I believe this selection inures to the benefit of the quarry, covers a multitude of potential sins and, as far as the buffalo goes, allows my Mother a better night's sleep.

All this now considered, I would be the last to take dispute with a man's personal choice of arms in any situation or circumstance. If hunting Kudu with a 22/250 is your thing and you can get it done efficiently then I stand in awe and offer my most heartfelt congratulations.

But its like me dating Julia Roberts, much as I would like to I am just not sure I could pull it off.

As a sidebar, I will make note of the fact that, in South Texas, on whitetail deer, we are seeing bigger not smaller guns. The fact is just this;

you may get a brief glimpse at a BC 170 buck, he will not be standing still offering a broadside view with his head up. If you want him you are going to have to get enough in him right then, from whatever angle, to put him down. If he makes it into the brush he will be gone and the chances of tracking him or finding him by any means is often remote.

tracking dogs? Yeah, in Texas if you have a rifle, a deer and a dog within about a mile of each other and Parks and Wildlife shows up, well, "Lucy, you got some 'splainin' to do!"

And the outfitter doesn't mind if you loose a deer. "Ka-Ching" another $4 - 7,000 and you can do it all over again, as many times as you want.

Wait, that's how Africa works too, doesn't it?

So the deer hunter with a .338 Lapua is not crazy, as some might first think, just "thrifty"

As for me, as big a gun as is practical for the given circumstance, quality bullets, as good a shot placement as the situation allows and lots of time on the range honing my craft. That's the least I can offer my quarry.

Finally, in all my conversations with dead game animals, not a one ever complained about being shot with too big a gun.

Second Wind said:

But its like me dating Julia Roberts, much as I would like to I am just not sure I could pull it off.

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..who says..? Have you tried..? Give her a call on 555..