Subject "Stopping rifle"..

Velo Dog said:

An 11 pound .500 NE Westley Richards Drop Lock, with 26" ejector barrels, built to fit me, would be my absolute first choice.

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This is very similar to my choice if I was to use a gun on a Elephant hunt and money was no issue, but I would prefer to use my bow.
The bow is not exactly a charge stopper, so it might be a bit off topic

"I kind of like this one.."


kinda reminds me of this one,....there you go again @Pondoro reminding me.........heading for the now.......

Ryno Botma said:

But if cost is not in mind I wouldn't mind a 416 rigby double bolt action

Have no idee of reliability and handling never even held one in my hands just think it is bad ass

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I thought I had seen one of these Frankenrifles recently. Sadly this one is .416 Rem - but everything else is about spot on! http://www.csmcspecials.com/product_p/9656.htm

Money as no object, I would probably order a .600 NE from Holland & Holland, fly to England for measurements and testing, then have the Big 5 engraving done with gold inlay. Then pack it up with Momma and go on a 30 day safari to bag all 5 with the new "Dragon Slayer." Have the Mrs. photo-document the entire trip while I kept a journal and wha-la! Inheritance is a fine English rifle, trophies, and story to go with it! And the kids said I didn't think of them first!

That is the right answer if i have ever heard it you should start by writing that in the journal .....

Well done

Shot Shot

Why thank you PHSC_Jono, I will!

In 37 years of hunting,I would say
good shooting is the best of all calibers.
Foxi

Since you said stopper, I guess my Heym 88 in 450/400 might be light, so I would have to use my beloved Searcy in 470 NE. Even if money no object. The 470 is about my recoil limit to be completely honest.

Foxi said:

In 37 years of hunting,I would say
good shooting is the best of all calibers.
Foxi

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I know what you mean but I think I'd prefer something larger than a 22lr if being charged by an elephant.

Pieter will be using a 500 NE next to my 458 Lott or 416. They better stop the big fellow in his tracks is all I can say.

Gentlemen the tital of this thread is “ SUBJECT STOPPING RIFLE”!


First the best stopping rifle is first and foremost a side by side double rifle with two triggers and ejectors that fits it’s owner.



The caliber is the one that is legal, and that the shooter can shoot accurately, with a one, two double tap, and reload very quickly, and double pop it again if needed to stop a charge of a dangerous animal.


The fact that the animal is an elephant has nothing to do with it. Any animal that needs stopping in a dead out charge requires the shooter to be accurate with every shot.


This rifle must be light enough so the hunter can carry it all day, and still shoot it accurately and quickly at the end of the day.


The bullet that stops a charge will be one that hits the central nervous system, and in the case of the elephant it must hit the brain after penetrating about 3 feet of skin and bone before it gets to the brain, and if it misses by a very small amount it must have enough energy to at least stun the ele till the second shot can be administered in less than one or two seconds after the first one.


In my opinion the best of all worlds to accommodate all the needs is a 11 pound 500NE. The 577NE seems to be the choice of many here, but I think after most carried that rifle all day in 110 degree heat I doubt the shots would be as precise as needed and the re-load would be pretty slow.


Right now I shoot an eleven pound 470NE double and and I can handle it pretty well at the end of the day. However for elephant, my choice would be a 11 pound 500NE Westley Richards with ejectors, and shooting 570 gr North Fork FPS bullet. For buffalo, or Lion I would want a North Fork Soft point.

Since you said stopper, I guess my Heym 88 in 450/400 might be light, so I would have to use my beloved Searcy in 470 NE. Even if money no object. The 470 is about my recoil limit to be completely honest.

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I'd take any one of your beautiful rifles. Otherwise I'd use my .458 Win

DUGABOY1 said:

In my opinion the best of all worlds to accommodate all the needs is a 11 pound 500NE. The 577NE seems to be the choice of many here, but I think after most carried that rifle all day in 110 degree heat I doubt the shots would be as precise as needed and the re-load would be pretty slow.

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You have a valid point here....but I think a person would tire while carrying a 11 pound 500 NE too, so the difference might not be so big..?

While debating this subject I presume we think the usual setup, ie a hunter backed by a PH. In such a setting I too believe a 11 pound 500 NE to be the pinnacle..

My reason for picking the .577 NE is that what little elephant hunting I have done and see myself doing in the forseeable future have been and will be shooting problem animals on game farm(s) in Botswana. I do not have the funds to hunt trophy ele with the current prices..

There may be occations when I am out by myself looking for ele without backup. In that setting I want the biggest stopper I can manage if an attack should occur.

BTW...has anybody done some penetration testing with the .577 NE with modern premium bullets..?

I have a .475 NE that I did a test with. Rifle has 23" barrels and I shot at stacked 2 by 8" pine planking at 20 meters, modern Kynoch ammo with 480 woodleigh solids, average velocity 2150 fps. Those bullets penetrated 94 centimeters (36 inches..). The bullets looked as they could be reloaded..

Did any of you do similar testing within the .450 - .476 NE range..?

I shoot Peregrine monolithics and they have to be the best points by far you should check them out
Peregrine Bullets | Bullets for the rifle connoisseur
We have tested them on wet packs blocks and an assortment of other goodies buffalo and so on.
I tell you they are brillient there is another thread on AH we have posted all the pics of expandable tips.
http://www.africahunting.com/threads/peregrine-vrg3-bushmaster-rsa-manufactured-bullet.23063/page-2

Hope this helps a 577 loaded with that bullet (vgr-2 900 grain) will shoot through a heard of pine buffalo.

Shot Shot

Hi Gents.
Karl Stumpfe also has great results with his 577 on Peregrine bullets. He has done about 12 Elephant this year with no problems.

Pondoro said:

You have a valid point here....but I think a person would tire while carrying a 11 pound 500 NE too, so the difference might not be so big..?

While debating this subject I presume we think the usual setup, ie a hunter backed by a PH. In such a setting I too believe a 11 pound 500 NE to be the pinnacle..

My reason for picking the .577 NE is that what little elephant hunting I have done and see myself doing in the forseeable future have been and will be shooting problem animals on game farm(s) in Botswana. I do not have the funds to hunt trophy ele with the current prices..

There may be occations when I am out by myself looking for ele without backup. In that setting I want the biggest stopper I can manage if an attack should occur.

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Thank you for the reply and you have some points worth thinking about.

That said I have owned two 577NE doubles, and have carried them in heat and what I found was at 14 pounds for one and 16 pounds for the other combined with the recoil of a double tap made the re-loading to be very slow.

As you say if you are accompanied by a PH his shots will help in this but if being alone, I prefer to have the speed in my favor, and the 500NE at 11 pounds makes the re-load if needed lightening fast. With my 11.3 pound 470NE double I can get four shots off on target in less than 5 seconds, and that rifle has extractors.

I have always recommended client hunter to never rely on a PH to drag your butt out of the fire, he may be the first one hit and to approach a charge as if you were alone, and as long as the buffalo, or elephant is on his feet keep shooting till he is down or out of sight. That may require a very quick re-loading of your double.

Some of this is simply a personal choice, but I simply do not like the 577NE doubles and much prefer the 470NE or even better the 500NE double especially with ejectors. I simply shoot the 470NE or the 500NE
more accurately and faster, hence my choice! With an elephant a big non-lethal slap in the face will often turn him, but on a buffalo that has launched a determined charge will not usually turn, so accuracy to brain him is critical.
.................................Good hunting! Mac

enysse said:

I'd take any one of your beautiful rifles. Otherwise I'd use my .458 Win

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Thank you Enysse!

I second your statement that you cant rely on your PH to fix all problems..

Mac, you have a lot more field practice with doubles than I...so I value your comments..

This was meant as a cost-no-object-fun thread......so I have only a .475 to face ele with..I do have confidence in it..

That said, after shooting a .600 and finding it controllable I think a .577/.600 might be good life-insurance if facing elephant without backup....though I must concurr that a second shot with those heavies come a bit slow...perhaps too slow.

Pondoro said:

I second your statement that you cant rely on your PH to fix all problems..

Mac, you have a lot more field practice with doubles than I...so I value your comments..

This was meant as a cost-no-object-fun thread......so I have only a .475 to face ele with..I do have confidence in it..

That said, after shooting a .600 and finding it controllable I think a .577/.600 might be good life-insurance if facing elephant without backup....though I must concurr that a second shot with those heavies come a bit slow...perhaps too slow.

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Pondoro, you are in a much more perilous activity than I, and so, for you, the 577NE or even the 600NE double may indeed be a very well thought choice.

Last year Ivan Carter had Heym build him a 600NE and he took delivery at Chris Sells booth at the Dallas Safari show. When I asked him why he wanted a 600NE double he said he wanted it to go into the thick weeds with wounded elephant, where he was likely to get no more than two shots before the ele would be on him. Makes very good sense to me! He doesn't have to carry the 600NE till he needs it, and carries his 450NE Heym on track, and a tracker carries the 600NE.

.....................................Mac