O.K., I have a few questions......

Check book in Hand
 
Click to expand Mr. 16 Gauge's post below.

*
Please note: the highlighted portions are direct quotes from an interview with PH Theo Bronkhorst.

Source: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...ant-next-but-couldnt-find-one-big-enough.html


With re: to the "Cecil" debacle. I have NEVER seen such a shit storm via one incident (with the exception of 9/11), and I know that social media has played a major part in this issue going viral. However, now that some time has passed & I am less emotional about the incident (i.e. just sitting around thinking about it), I have a few questions re: the "facts" as they have been "reported".

1.) It has been said that the lion in question was "lured" out of the park by dragging meat. How does anyone know this? DId they actually see someone dragging meat and if so, why didn't they say "Hey, stop dragging meat.....you'll lure a lion out of the park" and/or report it to authorities? How do we know (or not know) that whatever "meat" Cecil was shot at was a carcass that just occured there naturally?
"We set off quite late, with the sun down, and found the carcass of an elephant which we dragged and moved into the long
grass and used for bait," he said



2.) The dentist that shot poor Cecil is a felon; he's been convicted of poaching before! Really? If this is true, then how come he is allowed to practice dentistry? Of all the medical boards I know of (medicine, nursing, dentistry, etc), if one is a convicted felon, one is not allowed to practice the profession! PERIOD!!! If he had been convicted, (and back in the 80's), how was he able to maintain such a successful practice (until Fay Dunaway decided to broadcast personal information to the world.......funny how 'celebrities' don't want their personal emails, phone numbers, or addresses shared to protect their "privacy", but feel no sense of restraint when it comes to doing the same thing (esp. if it gets them some more "15 minutes of fame).

3.) The lion was shot with an arrow, and lanquished for 40 hours before being finished off with a rifle. Again, how do you know? Where you there? Did you actually watch the whole thing from somewhere and again, if so, why didn't you step in and do something? Or is is all bullshit, and just makes for good copy?
"The client then fired using a bow and arrow, and it went away into the long grass. This was about 10 pm."
Mr. Bronkhorst said he had a sense that the lion was hit, but could not be sure.
"Bow and arrow wounds are different to gun wounds, and they don't show much. But we couldn't do anything that night."
The four men went home for the night before returning to search for Cecil at dawn the next day.
"I was worried about the lion and what had happened," said Mr. Bronkhorst
"We got there about 9am, and we found it and it was wounded, and the client then shot it, with his bow and arrow, and
killed it"



4.) The tracking collar was destroyed, proving guilt! Supposedly the tracking collar was burned, proving that the kill was illegal. Really? If the tracking collar was indeed burned, wouldn't it stand to reason that it would no longer be transmitting? If it is no longer transmitting, how was it found? And it amazes me that as much as the antis LOVE to show photographs, no one has a photo of the "burned collar".
"I could not have seen the collar at night. We would never shoot a collared animal. I was devastated, and so was the client,
we were both upset, and I panicked and took it off and put it in a tree."
"I should have taken it to Parks [the Zimbabwe Parks and Wildlfe Management Authority], I admit that. So we did what
had to be done. We took the head and skin, as the client had paid for the trophy"
"I went to Parks and reported what had happened. I wish I had taken the collar"



I'm just curious....maybe I don't have the facts. Maybe these are the conditions......but they don't make sense. All I hear is a lot of emotion from a lot of 'talking heads', (one of which claimed that Cecil was killed in a 'pen').

Can anybody quote an impartial source? (other than PETA).
 
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Ok.....So where the hell are the pro hunting organizations to put forth these facts. Why don't they stop this shit dead in its tracks. No damn voice to put out at least a reasonable doubt statement. This man is STILL INNOCENT until proven otherwise. What is wrong with the hunting community? How can we allow the antis to gain so much steam in these situations. This is where and I will say it again....We need a high powered PR firm hired by the big boys in the industry to help protect us. I'll make a donation to that.
Couldn't agree more JB. SCI "suspended" the dentist's membership; other hunting groups came out against the hunt. I haven't heard of any that has said "why don't we wait and see what the facts are" and use this as as opportunity to educate people on the value of legal hunting? I realize the social media whackos refuse to listen, but the rest of the world is listening, and all they hear is Ivan Carter pronouncing judgement.

Not sure I'd want to rely on this community to save me if trouble arose, as it can in Africa.
 
The question I have is why are they blaming the hunter? Wouldn't the PH be at fault if anything illegal was done? As a hunter, I depend completely on my PH to guide me after game in a legal way.
 
The question I have is why are they blaming the hunter? Wouldn't the PH be at fault if anything illegal was done? As a hunter, I depend completely on my PH to guide me after game in a legal way.
PostOak, I agree with your question as a practical matter, but as a legal matter, the guy pulling the trigger is always ultimately responsible for what happens as a result of that. There is no doubt we have to rely on the PH's for permits,, places, times, genders, etc., but you can't escape the fact that if your reliance is misplaced, you're the one who has to wear it.
 
Well, I think if I was being attacked as he has been I would have gotten it out there quickly "that as far as I know, what I did was entirely legal".
 
He hired a PR firm which did issue just such a statement in the early days, as did his PH. Once the you know what hit the fan, and the media got ahold of some prior involvement by him in an illegal hunt (I don't know the facts), the PR firm ran for cover and quit.
 
Oh yes, I just found it:

"I had no idea that the lion I took was a known, local favorite, was collared and part of a study until the end of the hunt," he said, according to CBS. "I deeply regret that my pursuit of an activity I love and practice responsibly and legally resulted in the taking of this lion."
 
Apparently this guy has two previous convictions for doing stuff like this in the U.S., so I'm going to stop defending him.
 
You can defend hunting, including lion hunting, without defending him. And you can say "I'm waiting for the facts" if people ask about him. No need to throw him to the wolves - if he's done something wrong - this time - there will be plenty time for that.
 
Well, now I've read a quote from the outfitter saying Palmer did nothing wrong. They are also attacking a Philadelphia doctor who took a lion in April, and the landowner is defending him in that case. If Zimbabwe goes after either of these hunters, then they can forget about foreign hunters coming there.
 
I agree we have to wait for the facts, but after reading the initial story....I said it was deeply embellished and made to be the poster child of gathering the troops of anti-hunters, anti-Africa hunters and the rest of the greenies together. There may have been illegal things done and I say may have because if he didn't have a permit, there is big problem. But this story stunk to the high heaven when it first came out and it still stinks.
I was able to quiet a few of the anti-hunters down by posting lovely links to what the President of Zimbabwe has done in the past. It kind of shut them up quick, though they still feel polarized by "Cecil".
 
Excellent points on why the big organizations are not standing up for what we believe, or publishing out statements saying that nothing has been proven yet, etc, etc. Now, Delta, United & American Airlines will not import big 5 trophies, which I think is BS since we probably contribute more as hunters traveling to our destinations using those airlines, than any PETA animal lover does.

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