Death of Zimbabwe’s Best-Loved Lion Ignites Debate on Sport Hunting

No joke. I always seem to find myself there too.
 
Gizmo, hopefully you will get your lion.
 
And the story of a second lion supposedly taken illegally is starting to get traction. If they get it their way, another Doctor will be in the unemployment line, or in a Zimbabwe prison asap!
 
Really I gotta say I'm starting to really sweat about getting my lion home. Seems the Obama anti band wagon is all fired up and I hope I'm not one of the unlucky fellows that gets screwed because of this mess.
Me too. I am hoping to get mine in without issue as well. All of the permits have been issued/approved but I guess we will see. Can't wait to get notification that they are here and have cleared Customs. Hope you get yours in soon too. Really a crazy mess.
 
Really I gotta say I'm starting to really sweat about getting my lion home. Seems the Obama anti band wagon is all fired up and I hope I'm not one of the unlucky fellows that gets screwed because of this mess.


I'm betting you get it back Gizmo. Retroactive laws are generally frowned upon by the courts. If they make up some regulation, you certainly have standing to fight it.
 
I'm betting you get it back Gizmo. Retroactive laws are generally frowned upon by the courts. If they make up some regulation, you certainly have standing to fight it.
Didn't the ban on polar bear imports apply retroactively?

I think the perspective is that the law only bans future imports. It says nothing about hunting, so if you've already hunted one, but not yet imported it, it's not seen as retroactive, even though you can't import a trophy that could have been imported at the time you took it.
 
Didn't the ban on polar bear imports apply retroactively?

I think the perspective is that the law only bans future imports. It says nothing about hunting, so if you've already hunted one, but not yet imported it, it's not seen as retroactive, even though you can't import a trophy that could have been imported at the time you took it.

I think you are correct. If they implement a ban now on the import of lion. You may be out of luck? People who shot their polar bears legally are still not able to get their animals back.
 
I am right there with you Gizmo! Considering I'll be waiting 'til mid September to go hunt I'm nervous as a long tailed cat in a room full of rocking chairs :eek:
 
Didn't the ban on polar bear imports apply retroactively?

I think the perspective is that the law only bans future imports. It says nothing about hunting, so if you've already hunted one, but not yet imported it, it's not seen as retroactive, even though you can't import a trophy that could have been imported at the time you took it.


I am not saying Erik is assured of getting his lion. I would just bet the odds are in his favor.

From my understanding/memory, you are correct. There are a dozen or less Americans with polar bears in limbo from Canada and I believe Denmark (Greenland). What our government is saying is that your government and Denmark are not smart enough to manage your own wildlife.:rolleyes:

USFW banned the importation of elephants from Zimbabwe and Tanzania on April 4, 2014 effective January 1, 2014. (Backdated) There were a number of American elephant hunters who were put in a position of having personal property confiscated with out compensation or trial. On April 19, 2014, USFW, under pressure, waived the backdated portion of their regulation, allowing individuals who had shot elephants prior to April 4 to import their trophies.

In Gizmo's case the United States government would be effectively "taking" his personal property by not allowing it to be imported. Thus why I said he had standing. Generally speaking US courts do not like this. That is why I think there will be a lion mounted in a log lodge in Turkey Texas!:)

Disclaimer: I am not an attorney. Just a guy with $.02.o_O


PS: There is not even a ban at the moment, so all may be mute.
 
Really I gotta say I'm starting to really sweat about getting my lion home. Seems the Obama anti band wagon is all fired up and I hope I'm not one of the unlucky fellows that gets screwed because of this mess.

Me too. I am hoping to get mine in without issue as well. All of the permits have been issued/approved but I guess we will see. Can't wait to get notification that they are here and have cleared Customs. Hope you get yours in soon too. Really a crazy mess.

Here in the U.S. we are living in times under a government where our freedoms are being slowly eroded. To me it appears that the government is actually aspiring to be ever more controlling and punitive.

I therefore hope your lions and those of others can be imported without undue difficulty to be at home with you where they belong. The present situation makes me thank my lucky stars for the places I've been, the hunts I've been on and the memories in my photo albums and trophy room.

It's unfortunate that we are now living in such a politically correct and drama filled world of intolerance.
 
NGO'S ...anti hunting groups? I have heard that less than 4% of the money reaches the people/animals on the ground!! I don't know the real facts. But let me tell you want I see, this is a fact. Whenever I do flights in Mozambique the NGOS are sitting in first class, they book into the most expensive hotels, they have the best vehicles to be driving. Makes you think...
 
Lawmakers introduce CECIL act to derail trophy hunts
8/03/15 | by Chris Eger


U.S. Sen. Bob Menendez wants to expand import restrictions on some animal trophies. (Photo: Andrew Hinderaker/The Wall Street Journal)

After an unprecedented public outcry over the taking of a celebrity lion in Africa by a U.S. hunter, four Senate Democrats are seeking to ban the importation of certain trophies collected overseas.

On July 1, Cecil, a 13-year-old male Southwest African lion, part of a University of Oxford research program in and around the Hwange National Park in Zimbabwe was shot after Walter Palmer, a recreational big-game hunter and dentist from Minnesota, had originally wounded him with an arrow. Media attention, whipped up by anti-hunting groups and celebrities led to both an outpouring of donations to Oxford and a flood of hate mail and public vilification of Palmer.

Now, New Jersey Democratic Sen. Bob Menendez has introduced legislation that he contends will curb such hunts in the future.

“Let’s not be cowardly lions when it comes to trophy killings,” said Menendez in a statement. “Cecil’s death was a preventable tragedy that highlights the need to extend the protections of the Endangered Species Act. When we have enough concern about the future of a species to propose it for listing, we should not be killing it for sport. I’m proud to be joined by my colleagues in introducing this common-sense legislation to take a necessary and prudent step that creates a disincentive for these senseless trophy killings and advances our commitment in leading the fight to combat global wildlife trafficking.”

Menendez was joined in his proposal by noted anti-gun lawmakers and fellow Democratic Sens. Cory Booker, Richard Blumenthal and Ben Cardin.

The proposal, the Conserving Ecosystems by Ceasing the Importation of Large (CECIL) Animal Trophies Act , would make amendments to the Endangered Species Act of 1973 to extend both import and export restrictions to trophies from any animal listed as being threatened or endangered under that act.

Current trophy importation bans extend to ivory-bearing animals such as walrus taken in Canada and elephants.

Last October, the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service specifically proposed to list the African lion as threatened under the Endangered Species Act.

“The African lion – a symbol of majesty, courage and strength since earliest times – faces serious and continuing threats to its survival,” said Service Director Dan Ashe. “Many wild populations continue to decrease in size, and the subspecies is estimated to occupy less than 22 percent of its historical range. The U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service is committed to providing the necessary protections for imperiled species, both at home and abroad, and this proposal, if finalized, will help us do that.”

The CECIL Act is expected to be introduced in coming days.
 

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NGO'S ...anti hunting groups? I have heard that less than 4% of the money reaches the people/animals on the ground!! I don't know the real facts. But let me tell you want I see, this is a fact. Whenever I do flights in Mozambique the NGOS are sitting in first class, they book into the most expensive hotels, they have the best vehicles to be driving. Makes you think...

They are also part of the boom in the residential and office market in major African cities. ie: The UN paying $8,000/month for a minor beaurocrat to lease a house in Dar.
 
The way things are with the current USA government, anything can happen. I know a lot of people thought gay marriage would never be approved, but it's legal now. Hunting laws can change in a blink of an eye. What warning did our government give before they banned elephant imports...practically no time. Some body just decided, it was good action and implemented it.
 
Wheels, it's crazy the money they spend on themselves.
 
Lawmakers introduce CECIL act to derail trophy hunts
8/03/15 | by Chris Eger


U.S. Sen. Bob Menendez wants to expand import restrictions on some animal trophies. (Photo: Andrew Hinderaker/The Wall Street Journal)

After an unprecedented public outcry over the taking of a celebrity lion in Africa by a U.S. hunter, four Senate Democrats are seeking to ban the importation of certain trophies collected overseas.

On July 1, Cecil, a 13-year-old male Southwest African lion, part of a University of Oxford research program in and around the Hwange National Park in Zimbabwe was shot after Walter Palmer, a recreational big-game hunter and dentist from Minnesota, had originally wounded him with an arrow. Media attention, whipped up by anti-hunting groups and celebrities led to both an outpouring of donations to Oxford and a flood of hate mail and public vilification of Palmer.

Now, New Jersey Democratic Sen. Bob Menendez has introduced legislation that he contends will curb such hunts in the future.

“Let’s not be cowardly lions when it comes to trophy killings,” said Menendez in a statement. “Cecil’s death was a preventable tragedy that highlights the need to extend the protections of the Endangered Species Act. When we have enough concern about the future of a species to propose it for listing, we should not be killing it for sport. I’m proud to be joined by my colleagues in introducing this common-sense legislation to take a necessary and prudent step that creates a disincentive for these senseless trophy killings and advances our commitment in leading the fight to combat global wildlife trafficking.”

Menendez was joined in his proposal by noted anti-gun lawmakers and fellow Democratic Sens. Cory Booker, Richard Blumenthal and Ben Cardin.

The proposal, the Conserving Ecosystems by Ceasing the Importation of Large (CECIL) Animal Trophies Act , would make amendments to the Endangered Species Act of 1973 to extend both import and export restrictions to trophies from any animal listed as being threatened or endangered under that act.

Current trophy importation bans extend to ivory-bearing animals such as walrus taken in Canada and elephants.

Last October, the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service specifically proposed to list the African lion as threatened under the Endangered Species Act.

“The African lion – a symbol of majesty, courage and strength since earliest times – faces serious and continuing threats to its survival,” said Service Director Dan Ashe. “Many wild populations continue to decrease in size, and the subspecies is estimated to occupy less than 22 percent of its historical range. The U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service is committed to providing the necessary protections for imperiled species, both at home and abroad, and this proposal, if finalized, will help us do that.”

The CECIL Act is expected to be introduced in coming days.

But...lions aren't endangered :confused:
 
Never waste a good tragedy! Good old government way!
 
Wheels, it's crazy the money they spend on themselves.


I can't even afford to buy their used vehicles. Seen some traded in less than two years with less than 5,000 kilometers. This is certainly the exception but it happens.

On flights from Heathrow to Dar, first/business class is filled with the NGO and embassy crowd, a couple of hunters (during season) plus the wives of Tanzania politicians returning from Harods.
 
He didn't have a name.......but , my anti poaching unit will do the best to protect his family ......not just be cyber warriors.
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