Obama's Visit to Africa / Zimbabwe / China

Wow, that's a thread title eh? I decided to post this in the "News & Announcements" category as I found this editorial on the "Chronicle" news website from Zimbabwe. I would have copied and pasted the editorial but interestingly enough the page won't let me do that.

Read here: http://www.chronicle.co.zw/editorial-comment-obama-visit-time-for-win-win-partnerships/

So I've known China was invested into Zimbabwe, but I hadn't bothered to truly research it. Started to do that and came across this. If the numbers posted are accurate, and yes I understand I need to consider the source, China's investment in Zim and Africa as a whole is far more than the U.S and the EU.

So let's see:

1) The POTUS visits Africa and tells her people where she's gone all wrong while investing money into the continent that is dwarfed by others.

2) An American hunter has recently been part of a Charlie Foxtrot (cluster f**k for those not familiar with the military phrase) that has the eyes of the world's bunny huggers focused on Zimbabwe and are now calling for an outright ban of lion hunting in Zim. Again these bunny huggers come from the U.S. and the EU primarily.

3) Again if you trust the numbers, China is investing far more than the U.S./EU and I'm certain not a peep is heard from the Chinese citizens regarding Zim and her wildlife.

4) What does China want? Zimbabwe's (as well I'm sure other African countries) natural resources. But China as well as other Asian countries also want ele ivory, rhino horn and lion bones. And they will pay a very handsome price for those products.

5) And does the Chinese gov't come in and tell Mugabe or any of the other African leaders how to run their country or treat their citizens........Hell NO!


So maybe Mugabe follows the lead of Botswana and ends all hunting in Zim, why should he care if he has the Bank of China backing him? U.S. / EU is huge PITA factor with all her bunny huggers, and a smaller investment than China's with the Chinese being less trouble.

If the wildlife is essentially destroyed as it has been in Angola and not so many years ago as it were in Mozambique, well than that's one less hassle Mugabe or his successor has to worry about. After all, when was the last time the anti's brought up Angola?

PHOENIX PHIL said:

So maybe Mugabe follows the lead of Botswana and ends all hunting in Zim, why should he care if he has the Bank of China backing him? U.S

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So what is the advantage to doing this though to Mugabe?

If China was against hunting and this would bring in more chinese investment dollars I'd get it. Or if allowing Americans to hunt put some kind of additional burden on Zim I could understand that too, but it doesn't, unless I'm missing something. Why not just take money from all of us where he can get it?

Or are you saying that your fear is that the Chinese want/need the hunting areas for some kind of natural resource grab?

Royal27 said:

So what is the advantage to doing this though to Mugabe?

If China was against hunting and this would bring in more chinese investment dollars I'd get it. Or if allowing Americans to hunt put some kind of additional burden on Zim I could understand that too, but it doesn't, unless I'm missing something. Why not just take money from all of us where he can get it?

Or are you saying that your fear is that the Chinese want/need the hunting areas for some kind of natural resource grab?

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Basically I'm saying Zim is up for sale to the highest bidder who gives Mugabe the least amount of headaches. China would be the winner. And yes, IF the natural resources are in the hunting areas, what would Mugabe profit more from, buffalo or diamonds? Leopards or gold? Especially if he controls it directly.

Take a look here: http://newsafrica.co.uk/mugabe-to-be-patron-of-new-sovereign-wealth-fund/

PHOENIX PHIL said:

Basically I'm saying Zim is up for sale to the highest bidder

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No argument on that!!!!

I will say this, I'm glad I went last August and not this August.... Time will tell I guess.

Royal27 said:

No argument on that!!!!

I will say this, I'm glad I went last August and not this August.... Time will tell I guess.

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I'm with you there Royal. If things had panned out as originally planned I would have been heading to Zim in a couple weeks. Don't get me wrong, I would have still been there if they'd let me in. I may have been a bit twitchy about it though
Moz keeps looking like a far better choice every day that goes by.

PHOENIX PHIL said:

Basically I'm saying Zim is up for sale to the highest bidder who gives Mugabe the least amount of headaches. China would be the winner. And yes, IF the natural resources are in the hunting areas, what would Mugabe profit more from, buffalo or diamonds? Leopards or gold? Especially if he controls it directly.

Take a look here: http://newsafrica.co.uk/mugabe-to-be-patron-of-new-sovereign-wealth-fund/

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Phil, this isn't just Zim. It is throughout sub-Saharan Africa. Chinese are moving into Africa in large numbers. They are not assimilating. They live as a separate entity. There is a new colonial power in Africa and it is growing every day. Africa still blames its problems on the western European colonialists. Africa is becoming a Chinese colony. Africa can't see the forest for the trees.

Wheels said:

Africa is becoming a Chinese colony. Africa can't see the forest for the trees.

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So true...and so sad..

Everything has been up for bid in Zim for awhile over 15 years ago that country was a paradise. All it took was a change in government to make it slide down this slippery slope we are on today. Hunting use to be cheap there , game was abundant.

Uncle Bob and the Chicoms are of the same mindset..... take, take, take, and than just to be sure, take some more!

IdaRam said:

I'm with you there Royal. If things had panned out as originally planned I would have been heading to Zim in a couple weeks. Don't get me wrong, I would have still been there if they'd let me in. I may have been a bit twitchy about it though
Moz keeps looking like a far better choice every day that goes by.

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I am (perhaps - was) scheduled to head to Zim in a couple of weeks for a "cat" hunt. "Twitchy" doesn't quite enough capture the feelings I am having...disgusted, frustrated, infuriated...perhaps.

bc3141s said:

I am (perhaps - was) scheduled to head to Zim in a couple of weeks for a "cat" hunt. "Twitchy" doesn't quite enough capture the feelings I am having...disgusted, frustrated, infuriated...perhaps.

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Who are you booked to hunt with and what area? I truly understand your feelings and I hope your hunt goes off without a hitch. What's your PH telling you?

bc3141s said:

I am (perhaps - was) scheduled to head to Zim in a couple of weeks for a "cat" hunt. "Twitchy" doesn't quite enough capture the feelings I am having...disgusted, frustrated, infuriated...perhaps.

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Do you feel the outfitter is 100% honest? Does he have an impeccable reputation? If so lean toward going. Make sure and look at the TR2 and quota paperwork for the area before you start hunting. Verify that no other hunter has shot that quota prior to you getting there. This is where trust comes in.

Near Hwange or not? If away from Hwange lean toward going. If near Hwange ask your outfitter/agent a number of questions.

Leopard or lion? Leopard I would probably go where ever it is. Lion I would go if it was away from Hwange. Near Hwange I would think hard about it. Especially if the hope is getting lions out of the park.

All the game department people have got to be running around scared right now. They will probably make sure everything is on the up and up for a few months before going back to the status quo. Make sure there is no quota transfer. Also ask your outfitter this prior to going.

Feel free to ask about the Outfitters reputation here on AH.

If you go I hope you have the time of your life!

All the best.

I bet the anti's still by the cheap crap from China.

Wheels said:

Do you feel the outfitter is 100% honest? Does he have an impeccable reputation? If so lean toward going. Make sure and look at the TR2 and quota paperwork for the area before you start hunting. Verify that no other hunter has shot that quota prior to you getting there. This is where trust comes in.

Near Hwange or not? If away from Hwange lean toward going. If near Hwange ask your outfitter/agent a number of questions.

Leopard or lion? Leopard I would probably go where ever it is. Lion I would go if it was away from Hwange. Near Hwange I would think hard about it. Especially if the hope is getting lions out of the park.


All the best.

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Good advice for all of us African hunters and I will say my interest/knowledge about related paperwork has increased dramatically in the last week. PH has one of, if not the, "best" reputation in Zim and one of the best in Africa and we are a LONG ways from Hwange on a private hunting reserve. For those of you who know, you can probably guess who and where it is (side note: sad state of affairs when we are relegated to giving vague answers about a perfectly legal, pro-conservation effort). I am about 50/50 right now whether or not I am going, whereas a week ago I would have definitely thought this would have blown over by now. I think I will just evaluate prior to going and make a decision then, but I am sure this will blow over in the next year or two and Zim will be back to what it was previously, aside from USFWS odds increasing by the day of listing lions as threatened (advance apologies for opening that can of worms).

PHOENIX PHIL said:

U.S. / EU is huge PITA factor with all her bunny huggers

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PITA. Please tell me this was intentional and not a misspell, because it is a wonderful shot at PETA.

People for the Idiotic Treatment of Animals. Bwaaaaahahahaha!

broncolcj said:

PITA. Please tell me this was intentional and not a misspell, because it is a wonderful shot at PETA.

People for the Idiotic Treatment of Animals. Bwaaaaahahahaha!

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PITA for me is short for Pain In The A..

PHOENIX PHIL said:

PITA for me is short for Pain In The A..

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Ah, that works too

I hope you go. Not only for you, but for everyone who would love to have the opportunity to go. Like my old granny used to say, "F%&K 'em sonny, full speed ahead".

IdaRam said:

I hope you go. Not only for you, but for everyone who would love to have the opportunity to go. Like my old granny used to say, "F%&K 'em sonny, full speed ahead".

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I agree. I never thought I would have to consider potential business and family risks at home for having a perfectly legal, pro-conservation recreational activity. Living in the same "area" as "the dentist" brings it all home - so to speak. I will reserve judgment (and spare everyone my opinion) until all the facts are out, but I am sure he would say at this point it, unfortunately, wasn't worth the impact on his life and livelihood (irrespective of whether everything was legal, ethical and aboveboard or not).

I would still be worried about getting only pictures out of the hunt, honestly the state of getting stuff out of Africa is getting crazy.