Death of Zimbabwe’s Best-Loved Lion Ignites Debate on Sport Hunting

firehuntfish said:

I just heard on the news that Cecil had his paws in the air and was shot in the back....

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#lionslivesmatter

Per Ivan Carter>>Had one of the best statements I have yet seen-on his Facebook page. Encapsulates the views of the hunting community(and my own) as well as anything I have yet seen.

Per the Obama Administration-Reported that they are now looking into it. I predict that this is going to give them the excuse, that they have been looking for, to ban lion imports to the US.

Per the "landowner"-Received the farm through land seizures-Obviously was connected at that time-may still be. I suspect that a lot of illegal poaching has happened on the land-this time it was just too big and the news got away from him.

I know a lot of you guys are very open about hunting in your personal lives, but I think this is a prime example about why you must be very careful in today's age about associating yourself with hunting if it could have negative repercussions on your business.

LivingTheDream said:

Mr. Shannon, by that point of view you are absolutely correct. It doesn't matter. And to that point all Lion Hunting it going to be under attack and hunters have been given a black eye whether it was legal or not. I just want to know facts before I give my opinion, it seems these days investigations and charges are based more on emotional outcry rather then if the law was actually broken.

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You are right sir, in today's "feel good society", people seem more inclined to go with the fuzzy feel goods then be bothered by cold, hard facts. After all, those pesky facts seem to get in the way of many anti's agendas.

Saul said:

I know a lot of you guys are very open about hunting in your personal lives, but I think this is a prime example about why you must be very careful in today's age about associating yourself with hunting if it could have negative repercussions on your business.

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You are spot on with this one! It just amazes me the amount of hate that comes with it.

LivingTheDream said:

Soooo after all of this, has anyone determined if he actually had a permit or not? .

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I will not claim to know what is going on, but will try to answer your questions based on the information/misinformation on the WWW.

It seems he had a valid TR2/license. The farm where he was hunting didn't have quota so a lion couldn't be shot there. The outfitter was probably going to try to do a quota transfer or just throw the lion in the truck and drive to the place that had quota for lion and act like he was shot there. Palmer may have never known what the paperwork said.

LivingTheDream said:

I heard the landowner was not charged... Is this accurate? .

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The landowner was kicked off his farm during the land redistribution. There is an individual H.T. Ndlovu who is acting like he owns the farm. I am not sure if there are charges against him. Have heard it both ways.

To get the landowner kicked off in the first place, he is probably a member of ZANU PF. How high up the chain and how connected he is will probably determine what happens to him.



There can be nothing good for Zimbabwe and Mugabe by extraditing Palmer. If he is extradited and put in a Zim jail, how many of us will go to hunt there? We put our faith in the Outfitter/PH for having all the paperwork, hunting location with quota, etc.

The Zim government is reacting to media pressure in my opinion. The media storm called Cecil will die down over the weekend and next week. In the weeks to follow charges will be dropped or not brought against Palmer whether he was a willing accomplish or not. He will spend a lot of money during this process. A lot of things get said in Africa. Not much gets done.

His biggest worry, in my opinion is his own US government. You can bet with this administration that DOJ and USFW are staying up late trying to figure out how they can prosecute Palmer. Who is taking odds that they will prosecute him on something? By the time this is over the lion will cost him multiples of $50,000.

Again, I am not in the know. This is just an interesting topic and I have spent way to much time all over the WWW the last three days reading about it.

Do I put all my faith and marbles in Ivan Carter...................NO!!

I am not in the know, but I do know people in Zim, having hunted there many times. I am told the talk is as follows:

1. The landowner and the PH were aware there was no quota for a lion in that area.
2. In order to hunt with a bow in Zim you need a special permit from Parks (cost $1,500), you should have a game scout present and the hunt should be filmed.
3. The land the hunt was on was stolen from a white farmer, and the person claiming to own it may be subject to US sanctions, so the hunter should not have been there.

Again, not saying this is true, just what the talk is among hunters in Zim.

Just read a press release by Theo (PH) that says all the paperwork was in order.News24.

bottom line is we should all wait for the facts to come out, so sorry about my last post - no need to add to the confusion.

HHS, I agree, I want the facts....

Ivan Carter doesn't rule hunting in Africa, I will not put my backing in his statements, nor endorse his statements......let the courts do it.

I see a lot of hunters post things they want people to see or believe, but don't do it in reality.

TMS said:

HHS, I agree, I want the facts....

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+1. There's just too many contradictions from the news stories I read to determine if what happened was illegal or even unethical. It's mind boggling to me how so many so called civilized and educated people are calling for this guy to be executed because they saw a tweet or a meme. If people can so easily manipulated then I see a bad moon arising...

http://www.news24.com/Green/News/Hunter-of-Cecil-the-lion-I-did-nothing-wrong-20150731

shared via News24

I can understand the supposition and mass hysteria stirred up by anti hunters because that's what they do. Their agenda is to stir up controversy and whip people into an emotional frenzy.

What I do not understand is the supposition, accusations and subsequent premature condemnation being expressed by members of this site. Such comments are just playing into the hands of the anti hunting movement.

Why not set all the judgmental opinions and accusations aside and wait for the investigation to conclude and the facts to come out. There is plenty of time to fry some, or all of those involved IF that's really where things lead.

Exactly Big5, that is the reason I TOOK on a big name hunter......wait for the facts...don't try promote your own business.

TMS said:

Exactly Big5, that is the reason I TOOK on a big name hunter......wait for the facts...don't try promote your own business.

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TMS, I imagine you're talking about Ivan Carter and I agree with you wholeheartedly. I believe he should have held his tongue until things were concluded JUST LIKE EVERYONE ELSE. Besides, his 'opinion' holds no more value than yours, mine or anyone else's.

Big5 said:

What I do not understand is the supposition, accusations and subsequent premature condemnation being expressed by members of this site. Such comments are just playing into the hands of the anti hunting movement.

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And this is what scares me!

Was Cecil more important than my first lion hunt about 15 years ago...

Guys I prommised myself that I would not post here again. But some of you started to mention Ivan Carter and some stuff he posted on FB. Now I never knew if you did not have a FB account that you were still able to view some posts. I made a quick searh. (Ivan Carter comment on Cecil) to my amazement his FB page was at the top. I clicked on the link and it opened.

All I can say....It is shocking to see a man of his caliber write what he wrote.