Ethics and Legality?

Now why we are having this discussion on the ethics of hunting over bait or not. Please remember in Texas in the 1950's it was a mote point. Basically, whitetail deer were almost nonexistent due to the screwworm and agriculture. As ranchers realized that people would pay to come hunt their deer and treatment for parasites became available our state's whitetail deer population has grown immensely. All aspects of whitetail deer hunting, wildlife management, high fence ranches, breeding ranches, baiting have played a role in this success. All aspects need to be constantly evaluated for their continued positive contribution to our whitetail deer population.

So does the Texas whitetail deer model fit lions in South Africa? If the part of the U.S., that absolutely objects to baiting of deer had their way in Texas would the deer hunting industry in Texas have grown. How would that have affected the deer population in the rest of the U.S.? Could one set of ethics have affected the regrowth of a wild species? That could take some thinking?
 
And a good thing too! I think we can all agree that bathing of wild animals is really unacceptable! All it would take would be for the soap to get in their eyes and some poor wounded creature would be staggering around blind in the wilderness. I, for one, am against it!;):D
Baiting. Baiting.

If it were bathing, it would only be unethical if it was the opposite sex you were bathing.

And don't forget it.
 
Wait just a dang minute here!!!

It is easy for YOU to say don't bathe the wild animals when you live in Canada, where it is cold.

Down here in the South it is hot and they begin to stink if we don't bathe them regular. ...:E Nono::A Fart::A Fly:

Now which wild animals are you talking about. Four legged or two legged?:Bear: :E Crazy:
 
If it were bathing, it would only be unethical if it was the opposite sex you were bathing.

Well if it was Caitlyn Jenner perhaps......o_O:eek:
 
Now which wild animals are you talking about. Four legged or two legged?:Bear: :E Crazy:

I refuse to answer on the grounds that my wife sometimes reads over my shoulder. :A Outta:
 
Baiting. Baiting.

If it were bathing, it would only be unethical if it was the opposite sex you were bathing.

And don't forget it.
I bet you don't get kicked or scratched if you do it right.
 
Having gotten us well of track with bathing, I have another ethics vs legal question to put.

Again, when I was learning to hunt, it was clearly understood that it was unsporting (yes, said with an English accent) to hunt within about 500 yards of permanent water. Ambushing animals as they went to drink was unethical. I hold to the same rule today. If you hunt close to a waterhole, let alone at it, I believe (which really means I only think) your hunt is unethical, and it isn't hunting.

But since those halcyon days, bow hunting has become popular. And lots of bow hunters (most?) sit at water holes waiting for animals to come along, and then kill them.

It's perfectly legal, I assume, but in my view it isn't ethical, and it doesn't
look like much fun either!

Having said that, I will defend your right to hunt waterholes where it's legal, and I won't call you names on this website or anywhere else for choosing to do so. I just wouldn't do it.
 
Well if it was Caitlyn Jenner perhaps......o_O:eek:


That is just wrong phil. I was eating dinner and you post about that or him or her I forget which it is right now.
 
I grew up learning to hunt in Wisconsin in the 60's and early 70's.

At that time, you could lose your gun and your truck if you so much as leaned your gun against the truck, or laid it un-cased on the tailgate.

Baiting of deer was absolutely illegal and would get you lynched!

We didn't hunt from box blinds. There was a lot of debate about the ethics of hunting out of a tree.

Then at 17 I moved to Virginia. Oh My Goodness! They hunted deer with buckshot (unethical!!!) and chased them with dogs! I wanted to vomit!

I was only in VA, and peripherally exposed to these heresies for a year before heading off to be a Marine.

Fast forward 9 years and I am graduating college in Wisconsin and heading to Texas to start my career in the Chemical Industry (is THAT ethical?? :) ).

All of a sudden, I am surrounded by box blinds AND feeders! Except unlike Virginia, I stay exposed to this for much of the next 30 years.

After 12 years of being subjected to this new culture, but never participating (I went to Wisconsin and Idaho for my hunting fixes) I get invited to hunt on a vendor's lease in Texas. He has box blinds and feeders.

I sit in the box blind and listen to the feeder go off. I feel kinda guilty. I'm cheating. Then a bunch of pigs come out and I cannot shoot one. I rationalize that if I can climb down out of this stand, get my hind feet on the ground, and then shoot one, I will.

So against the rules of the lease (now who's being unethical??) I climb down the ladder. About the time I hit the ground the pigs scatter.

It is about a half hour before dark, so I figure I will just sit there at the base of the blind and wait for dark and the ride home. 10 minutes later a large sow comes out of the brush and starts scarfing corn in my direction. I crouch low behind some tall grass and watch this sow eat corn for several minutes until she gets about 10 yards from me, at which time I placed a 235 gr Speer Semi-Spitzer through her head.

Pretty soon after the hunt, I have some really tasty sausage in my freezer. My wife says "you can go hunt pigs any time you want".

And so it goes.......

Now, truth be told, I would rather hike up the Stoddard Trail into the Frank Church Wilderness and live like a caveman for 5 days and not see an elk, than to sit in a box, sweating, swatting mosquitoes and hoping for an animal to come get some corn.

But I can't get to Idaho too readily and it takes me 6 months of working out anymore to get in good enough shape. I do stand a chance to drive 5 hours to a friend's place to sit in a box. If nobody else is hunting, I can even say poo on the box and still-hunt. But often times you have to sit in your box so as to remain safe and not botch someone else's hunt up.

So I guess what I am saying is, our opinions on what is acceptable can change. Time, age, infirmities, peer pressure, available opportunities...they can all take a toll on your self-imposed standards. And that is not necessarily bad. Not considering anything about what is legal here...that stuff is cut and dry. We're talking about the "judgment call" stuff.

In 1975 I would never have sat in a box looking at a feeder 100 yards away. I did so in 1997. And I have done so since.

In 1997 I was a lot more judgmental about hunting and religion than I am today. I still have very strong views on both, but I am less likely to automatically think everyone else ought to see these things the same way I do.

As always, my $0.02.


Tim
 
Again, when I was learning to hunt, it was clearly understood that it was unsporting (yes, said with an English accent) to hunt within about 500 yards of permanent water.


Water is an interesting one Hank. Where I grew up in Texas we didn't hunt over it, but weren't against it either. In the swamps in East Texas it wouldn't have helped, but out in West Texas it might have. I'm not really sure why we didn't, but it wasn't ethics...
 
Again, when I was learning to hunt, it was clearly understood that it was unsporting (yes, said with an English accent) to hunt within about 500 yards of permanent water.

Here are some regulations for Tanzania:
- Trophy hunting may take place within the hours of daylight during the hunting season, no hunting is allowed at night and no hunting is allowed with artificial light.
- Hunting from a vehicle is not permitted, though the vehicle can be used to reach the area from where hunting on foot can begin.
- Shooting an animal from a vehicle is not permitted, a person actually needs to be 219 yards (200 meters) away from a vehicle to shoot an animal.
- No animal may be chased or driven by a vehicle.
- Hunting of female, young and/or immature animals is prohibited.
- Hunting is not permitted within 1.25 miles (2 kilometers) of a National Park.
- Hunting is not permitted within 1,100 yards (1 kilometer) of a an airplane landing area.
- Hunting is not permitted within 547 yards (500 meters) of any water place or salt lick with the exception of the following species Hippopotamus, Sitatunga, Waterbuck and Birds.
 
Last few years in W. Texas, waterholes were true trophies and you hunted hard for them. This year they are pretty common.(y)

Why are we ethical? How does wildlife benefit from our ethics?
 
Here are some regulations for Tanzania:
- Trophy hunting may take place within the hours of daylight during the hunting season, no hunting is allowed at night and no hunting is allowed with artificial light.
- Hunting from a vehicle is not permitted, though the vehicle can be used to reach the area from where hunting on foot can begin.
- Shooting an animal from a vehicle is not permitted, a person actually needs to be 219 yards (200 meters) away from a vehicle to shoot an animal.
- No animal may be chased or driven by a vehicle.
- Hunting of female, young and/or immature animals is prohibited.
- Hunting is not permitted within 1.25 miles (2 kilometers) of a National Park.
- Hunting is not permitted within 1,100 yards (1 kilometer) of a an airplane landing area.
- Hunting is not permitted within 547 yards (500 meters) of any water place or salt lick with the exception of the following species Hippopotamus, Sitatunga, Waterbuck and Birds.

Sounds fair to me, none I disagree with. Besides, their country their rules.
 
billc,

I think your posts have been interesting and added to the debate developing here. We cant all agree on everything, which I believe is a good thing. Having different views and ideas makes for a good conversation and debate, so long as we respect each others views, it leads to great discussion

I completely agree that we need to be more savvy about the way we present ourselves and hunting on social media, etc.

Well thank you, I hope guys can get what I am saying. I love talking hunting or shooting or taxidermy but try and always think big picture if my thoughts help all us hunters. We dont need to all agree on everything but if we start thinking about if we are helping hunting with are words it will go along way for us as a group.
 
Here are some regulations for Tanzania:
- Trophy hunting may take place within the hours of daylight during the hunting season, no hunting is allowed at night and no hunting is allowed with artificial light.

Sounds fair to me, none I disagree with. Besides, their country their rules.

But just a short distance away in Zimbabwe, use of artificial light to hunt leopards at night on communal areas is legal. Is Zim wrong and Tanz right? I don't think either, as @Big5 says it's their country their rules.

If I personally won't take a leopard at night as it violates my ethics, then I should either not hunt in Zim or if I do, I should explain to my PH that I'll only take a leopard under daylight conditions.
 
But just a short distance away in Zimbabwe, use of artificial light to hunt leopards at night on communal areas is legal. Is Zim wrong and Tanz right? I don't think either, as @Big5 says it's their country their rules.

Heck, even within the same country. The big government concessions in Zim don't allow the use of light for leopard.

Or even the same state. Here in Georgia feeders are legal in half the state and illegal in the other half. The half that allows feeders has more deer too. Which is a large part of the reason they made feeders legal. In hopes it would help with population control.
 
Heck, even within the same country. The big government concessions in Zim don't allow the use of light for leopard.

No hunting at night and no artificial light allowed when hunting the government concessions. I've enjoyed the traditional way of hunting on the concessions there.
 
All of this sort of makes the point that some hunter shouldn't get up on their high horses telling other hunters what's right and what's wrong, what's ethical and what's not, what's hunting and what's shooting, and whose the better human being. Assuming it's always legal.

And please stop using the excuse of placating the antis to justify your arrogance. They won't be placated.

We should be on the same side.
 

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Pancho wrote on Safari Dave's profile.
Enjoyed reading your post again. Believe this is the 3rd time. I am scheduled to hunt w/ Legadema in Sep. Really looking forward to it.
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I would be interested in it if you pass. Please send me the info on the gun shop if you do not buy it. I have the needed ammo and brass.
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