SOUTH AFRICA: Tootabi Hunting Safaris What Is The Wounded Policy And Billing Issues

I won't accuse you of being a pedant!

Gents,

I am still very new here and I still lurke through the threads.

However after reading the original email correspondence between Royal and Loodt I was left with the impression that this all started over a $7.00 billing dispute.

Wow is all I can say!!!

Now please tell me if I am wrong because I often am. R.

"Tokkie, the more you respond to this thread (which I encourage you to do) the more you have your name smothered in mud as well. I am relaying what my followers on AH is commenting on. I would suggest you stop questioning everything Isay and rather just keep quiet to protect your name and the outfitters you represent in SA."

The above is from a message I received from Loodt about an hour ago.
I place it here for the sake of transparency so there is no he said she said issue. Loodt did also mention that he would like to call me and discuss this.

Loodt,from the start of this thread I have played the issue and not the man,I have endeavoured to give a factual representation of my interpretation of the facts stated here only. So in keeping with this here is my reply put in as gently term and as clear words as possible.

My reputation and those of the Outfitters I represent in South Africa is beyond reproach. If it was not I am positive it would reflect on AH somewhere. Similar to the current and previous post regarding Tootabi Hunting Safaris.
My reputation is not the one at stake here,yours is and your message simply reinforces some of what I believed to be true. Trying to silence someone by force of will or threats may work for you on others,it does not with me.
I am glad your followers are 100% behind you,but they are your followers not mine and I tend to believe a man should not follow he should lead by example and the sign of a true leader is his abillity to bring out the best in people,not the worst.

Incase I have not made it clear. You are welcome to take me on at a personal and professional level,I have yet to back down from a challenge.

I am not one for underlining my posts with a quote to enforce my self believe. I preffer being original and to the point,but here is a quote from Blake that will serve you well.

"I must create a system or be enslaved by another man's. I will not reason or compare,my business is to create"

Redruff said:

Gents,

I am still very new here and I still lurke through the threads.

However after reading the original email correspondence between Royal and Loodt I was left with the impression that this all started over a $7.00 billing dispute.

Wow is all I can say!!!

Now please tell me if I am wrong because I often am. R.

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Context.

BRICKBURN said:

56.(1) comes to mind.

View attachment 43563

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To me this come to mind!



I'll smother my name (and other things) IN THAT!

That's why I love you Jaco. It's all about focus.

BRICKBURN said:

Context.

View attachment 43566

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Good one. I like it'

Redruff said:

Gents,

I am still very new here and I still lurke through the threads.

However after reading the original email correspondence between Royal and Loodt I was left with the impression that this all started over a $7.00 billing dispute.

Wow is all I can say!!!

Now please tell me if I am wrong because I often am. R.

Click to expand...

After reading through this again, it does seem like 7 dollars got the ball rolling. I had more to say but I started to focus on the pic 3 posts above....

Tootabi Hunting Safaris said:

@Trap123 I cannot agree more with your last post! Thank you.

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I have a 10-day hunt booked with Loodt for May of next year. I purchased the "Billc Taste of the Cape" package, and, added 5 "extra" hunting days. I have my safari completely paid for with the exception of 2-extra days. When I made the decision to book my second safari with Tootabi, Loodt, and, I talked on the telephone for over 30-minutes, and, exchanged email correspondence a number of times. Once the details were worked out, Loodt sent me the contract, quotes on extra days, and, trophy fees for additional animals, etc., and, an itemized statement covering the cost of the hunt. In reviewing these documents, I found all of the details to be "exactly" like Loodt, and, I, had discussed. I had "no questions," and, "no problems," with anything he sent me. I sent Loodt 2-payments to cover the cost of my hunt. He notified me when he received these payments, and, sent me receipts showing the amount that had been paid. Once again, no problems! Loodt has accomodated all of my request, even to the point of rescheduling my safari from this year to next year, without any of it being a problem. In planning this hunt, I have been so impressed with Loodt that I asked him to guide me for the duration of my safari which he has agreed to do.

In corresponding with Loodt, one of the things that impressed me the most, were statements he made in reference to his love, and, faith in God, and, His Son, our Lord, and, Saviour, Jesus Christ. As a fellow Christian, this is all the "reference" I needed to know that I was booking my safari with the right man! In reading his post, I find that "woods1126," (Kevin), shares my feeling about Loodt's Christian faith. With this being said, and, regarding this unfortunate situation with Mr. Mowery, I don't think Loodt would do anything to "deliberately" hurt him "financially," or, "otherwise," as some have implied on this thread. In reading, and, "re-reading," Loodt's news release, I think he has made every "reasonable" effort to bring this matter to a satisfactory conclusion for Mr. Mowery, and, all parties concerned.

For those who believe, (or, in a few cases, maybe "hope"), that this problem with Mr. Mowery will hurt Loodt's business, I do not agree with that premise either. On the contrary, I think that Loodt's expeditious handling of this situation will serve to let prospective clients know that if a problem arises it will be taken care of with "their" best interest being the primary concern. Hunters enjoying successful, and, memorable hunts with Loodt, and, the Tootabi team, will far "overshadow" any "fallout" from this situation involving Mr. Mowery.

In closing, I am 66-years old, and, have hunted since I was old enough to pick up a gun. I have hunted a number of states, as well as, three Canadian provinces, for whitetail deer, and, other big game. As previously stated, I have been on one African safari. I have been on a number of guided hunts, some good, and, some bad. Regarding next year's safari, I have not lost 1-minutes sleep worrying about this situation with Mr. Mowery, nor, has the derogatory comments directed at this fine young man, by some AH members, caused me any concern, or, given me "second thoughts" about booking with
Loodt!

Somebody could have come out of this smelling like a rose (just like the mess he stepped in last year) if it had not been for posting the letter to Royal trying to collect seven bucks on a safaris costing thousands. Sometimes ya just need to know when to shut the old pie hole.

Loodt, you made an issue over 7 dollars, really? I had told myself I was not going to post further but COME ON. $7??????? That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever seen in my life.

@gizmo, I am totally with you about not wanting to post again... Then I read all old posts..

Not having outfitters license

Tootabi company name fight

Billing problem

I am a Christian, but I don't hide behind a Bible.

I was watching a real interesting thread by @Jaco and @ Spike, who comes onto the thread and beats the prices???

Yes, I have made mistakes in my life... But I made up for it. I didn't use a bull@&@# press release.

Loodt, this is a forum for us down to earth hunters and clients, learn.

Jaco Strauss said:

To me this come to mind!

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I'll smother my name (and other things) IN THAT!

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@Jaco Strauss this photo has stopped most from continuing this thread but maybe a half naked man will make the rest stop the argument. Lol

Warbird, none of us have been in the bush that long.

Or in my case the desert..................

OK...enough is enough!!! I will not comment on the issue between Loodt and Royal it looks like that is a dead issue, but I will say many people who have posted, need to GROW UP and stop pointing fingers at each other. Why are you taking pot shots at each other? We are all hunters and outdoors people and should learn for this post and move on. Bitching among ourselves and pointing fingers are each other is doing nothing but make the Anti-Hunting crowd happy. They no longer have to spend money to stop hunting just start the infighting!

Please stop the fighting, bitching, complaining and finger pointing. If you learned something for the original posts, good for you, I did. But now it is time to move on.

In my time as a member on AH, there have been three instances that I can remember of an outfitter who was a regular on this site being called out. Two of those times have now been Tootabi.

I stayed out of last years Tootabi Hunting Safaris thread. (I certainly sided with Dave and Gerhard and feel that they both were treated poorly for the legitimate questioning of Loodt's licensing issues) On the current thread I believe I posted three times. Twice concerning billing.


I didn't feel I had a cock in last years fight. This year I do. Let me explain:

An acquaintance knows I hunt in Africa. He asked me to make some recommendations. I told him to come to AH, spend some time looking at the hunts offered/hunting reports and get back with me. He narrowed the list down to a few companies including Tootabi Hunting Safaris. Time has passed, people have filed good hunting reports on Tootabi Hunting Safaris and I felt Loodt had gone along way to rebuilding his reputation. (I am big on second chances. God knows I have been the beneficiary of a few.) I told this individual of the licensing thread but said that I thought Tootabi Hunting Safaris would be a good company to hunt with if that is who they decided on. My reputation is now on the line. Thus the reason for my posting on this thread.



This brings me to some general thoughts, observations and questions:


1. With the WWW, Outfitters/PH's live in glass houses. It can easily be seen as sour grapes if an outfitter criticizes another and completely backfire on them. A few outfitters have been critical of Tootabi Hunting Safaris. Possibly to their determent. Have any outfitters come to Tootabi Hunting Safari's aid? What is the reason for this? Do they know more of what is actually going on than we do?

2. What is the reputation of the outfitters that have been critical of Tootabi Hunting Safaris in last year and this years thread? Is it good? Are they possibly trying to protect the industry and the hunting community in general? Even to their own determent?

3. I took a cursory glance at last years Tootabi Hunting Safaris thread. Some of the Tootabi Huntings defenders from last years thread seem absent from this years thread. Especially the last few pages. One of them even was the OP of this thread. Is there a reason they are not coming to Tootabi Hunting's defense now?

4. Most of the Tootabi Hunting's defenders on this thread and last years thread seem fairly new to hunting in Africa. There is nothing wrong with that. We were all new at one time or another. Isn't that one of the reasons we are a part of the AH community, to help each other out? Isn't that the reason for threads like this, as a help/warning sign to others? Where do all the experienced African hunters who may have a better idea of what may be going on stand? Are they criticizing, supporting, or just ignoring this thread. Why? Do they know more than the average poster?

5. The RSA hunting community is not massive. Most of the parties either know or know of each other. Whether they are hunters, PH's or outfitters. Are they coming to Tootabi Hunting's aid? Is there a reason? Is this thread like an iceberg? Is there a lot more going on than is visible?

6. Posting private emails between parties. Are you serious Loodt? Never ever should that happen! I was through posting on this thread a few pages back until you did that. $7 seriously? Didn't you come to the USA and stay in Royal's house for a few days? How much did he charge you for that? He stays at your place and gets overcharged on observer rates! Are you really billing him over a $7 fee? You keep saying it is not about the money, really!


Yes my questions are rhetorical.


Yes I am big on second chances. Third chances.......

@Wheels have you seen my media release and what I charged Royal for the extra days? Really???

Have he told you about the extra animals I have had him shoot for no extra charge? Have he told you about the excursions and travellings to various activities free of charge?

I rest my case with the worlds respect to you sir. I appreciate your private message earlier, really and I mean it out of the depth of my heart.

Take care.

Loodt

@Wheels , I am take my hat off to you, you have said what we as outfitters have actually wanted to say all the way along. While I was typing this post, Tootabi Hunting's latest post came through...just compare the press post language to Loodt, world of difference. Loodt I think I have given you all the chance to be honest, not once have you tried. I am in no way competition to your hunting enterprise, we operate out of South Africa, total different league, but truly you need to grow up.

For the record, I am big on second chances as well. Unfortunately this is not a second chance situation.
1) I admittedly have been very critical, imho this issue is larger than just this thread. All outfitters here have a dog in this fight as the reputation of ourselves is at stake here. If one does wrong we all suffer from that. In addition the reputation of the website as a whole is at stake also. This is a highly reputable website, not only do I pay dues in order to advertise here but I very often refer people here when looking for hunts. My name and my business is attached to that. The consequences of dishonesty and corruption are far reaching. I have worked my butt of to develop the reputation I have as a Texas outfitter and I will absolutely not let someone else tarnish that I have worked so hard for.
2) My intent of my posts is to express my feelings and stance on the issue at hand which I stand behind what I have said. Right is right and wrong is wrong. In no way am I trying to take a stance of hollyer than tho. Mistakes happen, I have made many honest mistakes in my life and will make many many more before it is all said and done. The key issue is HONEST mistakes as I do not feel this was the issue at hand.
3) It bothers me very much that this has gotten as ugly as it has. This has always been a gentleman's forum and I truely hope this, as many have expressed, passes and we all take valuable lessons from this I certainly know I have.
4) As more to the story, I believe there is. The hunting world is a small community and reputations far exceed physical boarders. I was the absolutely in favor of giving Loodt an opportunity to succeed and prove all of the bad publicity and rumors wrong. Unfortunately with what I have seen here that hasn't happened. I do still hope that he is able to mend things that need mending and come out stronger and better in the end. BUT it absolutely must be in the right way. Honesty in intentions and integrity is an absolute necessity in any endeavor in life.
5) I absolutely feel that those who have voiced concerns or criticism most definitely have every right to do so. I also feel those who see it from the other point of view have every right to believe and voice their opinions as well. It is unfortunate that it has gotten nasty, I readily admit I have let emotion get the best of me at times but.... This is a very big issue and not to be taken lightly, my belief in this is based in my above mentioned points and previous posts.
6) had this situation been handled appropriately from the beginning this could all have been avoided.

My best wishes for all, Erik