SOUTH AFRICA: Tootabi Hunting Safaris What Is The Wounded Policy And Billing Issues

gizmo said:

I agree. This entire situation could have been avoided had you chose to act with integrity from the very beginning. You are in a field where integrity and you word mean absolutely everything. I've seen a lack of this in, unfortunately, several instances. It should never have gotten to this point had honorable decisions been made from the very beginning. What I'm sure many realize is that this tarnishes all of our reputations and that of the site as well. One shouldn't be backed into a corner in order to to the right thing. I stand behind every comment I've posted as well as this one. This site is a place for outfitters to advertise, share experiences, and develop relationships with people. It is expected that the good people of this site should be able to book with outfitters, especially sponser outfitters, and not have to worry about ones motives or integrity. When dishonest decisions are made and it becomes an issue that blows up like this it effects all of us. I am a sponser, I pay dues to have the privilege to advertise in this site just as you do. You decisions effect not only your reputation but all of us sponsers and the website as a whole and I find your decisions seriously lacking in integrity. I do wish you success in the future but it needs to be success as a result of integrity, honesty, and good ethical business practices.

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Well said Eric. I know I come to this site for honest and reputable information. One bad apple don't spoil the bunch. But loodts actions in my opinion were less than desirable.

flyfishaz said:

@hunthardsafaris I don't care that I don't have hundreds of post counts. If it is true what Loodt said, in my opinion Royal isn't a stand up member.

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Welcome to AH. I suggest you really look at the facts. I'm not sure how much hunting you have done but I will say Loodt did not handle this right and he knows it.

Tootabi Valley Safaris said:

It is the job of the professional hunter to make that judgement in the best interest of the client of what is right at the time. A client should not dispute anything on safari. We(ph's and outfitters) are here to guarantee our client peace of mind and to have a wounderful time in this awesome Country of ours!

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Than you should have never let it get this far Loodt. As soon as Royal contacted you and everyone agreed there was no blood and the dogs found nothing he should have been immediately reimbursed . You had to be pressured into a refund. And look at the negative publicity you've gotten.

jeff said:

Bluey, Gizmo, and Hank 22 why do you agree that a client should never dispute anything on safari?

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Can't speak for the others, but I don't think I ever said that.

What I said was that the client isn't the final (or best) judge of what happened. The client can - and should - dispute where they think something is wrong. However - and let's take an easy example here - in Zimbabwe, the game scout is the final judge of what happened. If he (or she) says there was a hit, the client can dispute all they want, but that's the law. Here, there was a contract. The fact that the client said there was a hit in this case wasn't the final word, the contract was, and it said there would be payment if there was blood. So no blood, no payment.

So, to be clear, the client can and should dispute where they disagree, and I have done so on many subjects while on safari. But if there is a contract that specifies what is supposed to happen, or if there is a law or regulation which must be followed, then the client's view is just that, and not the last word.

johnnyblues said:

Than you should have never let it get this far Loodt. As soon as Royal contacted you and everyone agreed there was no blood and the dogs found nothing he should have been immediately reimbursed . You had to be pressured into a refund. And look at the negative publicity you've gotten.

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Johnny, that quote was from Beans with Tootabi Valley Safaris not Loodt.

gizmo said:

Johnny, that quote was from Beans with Tootabi Valley Safaris not Loodt.

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Oh sorry

I have to admit that I haven't read all the comments on this post. But I have read most. The bottom line in all my business dealings is this: 1) people come first; 2) better you be found having cheated me when I stand before my Father in Heaven, than I be found having cheated you. As has been previously posted on this site, I've been in a similar position. And at the end of the day, I'm glad they got what was most important to them. I just want to know that God was pleased with how I handled the situation. Hope that helps Royal.

Tootabi Valley Safaris said:

It is the job of the professional hunter to make that judgement in the best interest of the client of what is right at the time. A client should not dispute anything on safari. We(ph's and outfitters) are here to guarantee our client peace of mind and to have a wounderful time in this awesome Country of ours!

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Tootabi Valley Safaris said:

It is the job of the professional hunter to make that judgement in the best interest of the client of what is right at the time. A client should not dispute anything on safari. We(ph's and outfitters) are here to guarantee our client peace of mind and to have a wounderful time in this awesome Country of ours!

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Gizmo,and Hank 22 you liked that post so I thought you were in agreement with it, sorry if that was not the case.

Sorry for the double quote, must have tapped twice,my bad.

I think you all are big meanies............

jeff said:

Gizmo,and Hank 22 you liked that post so I thought you were in agreement with it, sorry if that was not the case.

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I do agree with him as I believe he is saying the client should not have to dispute things on safari as it is the outfitters job to make decisions in the clients best interest of what is fair and right. In other words the ph and staff should have the experience, knowledge, ethics, integrity, and morals to make the right decision there by avoiding a situation like this where the client gets screwed.

Beans isn't saying a client shouldn't dispute something if there is question. He's saying a client shouldn't have to dispute something as a good outfitter/ph would make the right and ethical decision in the first place.

Best of luck to both Royal and Loodt, be well and stay safe.

gizmo said:

Beans isn't saying a client shouldn't dispute something if there is question. He's saying a client shouldn't have to dispute something as a good outfitter/ph would make the right and ethical decision in the first place.

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That's how I took it as well. Beans was saying the client shouldn't have to make awkward calls or decisions - PH is there to relieve him of stress, not add to it.

As a relative newcomer here I think Loodt's reputation has taken a hit over this.I don't believe it was done deliberately but should have been rectified before the client left camp. With the amount of great outfitters to choose from on this site I will look elsewhere for my first safari. Live and learn and I hope Loodt recovers and goes on to a successful career .

johnnyblues said:

Than you should have never let it get this far Loodt. As soon as Royal contacted you and everyone agreed there was no blood and the dogs found nothing he should have been immediately reimbursed . You had to be pressured into a refund. And look at the negative publicity you've gotten.

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Johnny, you have just proceeded to confuse Beans with Loodt in this post!

Details, man. It's all in the details.

Beans of Tootabi Valley Safaris has ZERO to do with this scenario, beyond having his name egregiously confused for something he has not done.

OK - it's all sorted out now so a good result for all, and a learning for the rest of us.

Can we just move on now...?

Seems this thread is losing its way...

Ado

Hank2211 said:

That's how I took it as well. Beans was saying the client shouldn't have to make awkward calls or decisions - PH is there to relieve him of stress, not add to it.

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I guess I read it to literally , a little different wording and I wouldn't have misunderstood. Thanks for clearing it up.

So I saw this thread when it was on page 1 and just recently got caught up. I was actually busy working with my outfitter who has moved heaven and earth for me to live a dream this August. But now that I caught up, I have a few thoughts.

It was ashame it came to this, and really wish it could have been handled privately. I hate to see a "passionate disagreement" on here. I read the names of people posting and it is a who's who of AH. Many of these members I have reached out to privately with questions as this has been the most amazing site to gain information and to a share a bond with like minded people. I honestly can say I have the utmost respect for everyone and their opinion on the matter. As such, I hope there are no hard feelings for anyone involved and for any of the members who commented towards each other. We are too small of a group to have hard feelings. I am confident I could reach out to both royal or loodt if I had a question and they treat me as a long lost friend. I personally learned a lot from the 14 pages of discussion, and I hope/think that is the end goal and purpose of this post was for both outfitters and clients to learn.

On a humorous note, I showed my fiancée the colorful selfie of Jaco. She laughed and said who is that, I said that is a PH in Africa, I believe he is one of the top leopard hunters in the world. She goes is that where you sit a blind for 14 days straight hours at a time. I go yeah. She goes so you would fly across the world and pay thousands of dollars to sit in a blind with him. I go yeah. She walks off and says I just don't understand hunting....

LivingTheDream said:

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On a humorous note, I showed my fiancée the colorful selfie of Jaco. She laughed and said who is that, I said that is a PH in Africa, I believe he is one of the top leopard hunters in the world. She goes is that where you sit a blind for 14 days straight hours at a time. I go yeah. She goes so you would fly across the world and pay thousands of dollars to sit in a blind with him. I go yeah. She walks off and says I just don't understand hunting....

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Puts a new twist on hunting camo.