Recoil sissy can't shoot, now what

Why do you have a shorter LOP on the rifle?
I've heard the rationale about thicker coats etc.
Never made sense.

After I extended the stocks on my rifles I shoot them all better.
(You only have a couple inches and a few pounds on me)
That 15.5 works for me and is more relaxed than crunching up/creeping on the rifle on shorter stock.

Hi Rookhawk

I just got a 300 Win Mag for the safari that I went on last fall and what I did was put a Limbsaver Precision Fit Recoil Pad on it. They come in sizes to fit most brands of rifles and it is just two screws to do the switch. In the case of my Ruger it made a big difference compared to the stock one. You might have to change your scope since it will move you back a half to 3/4 of a inch.

I didn't read all the posts so if some one has already said this sorry.

rookhawk said:

Just one. I had the manufacturer provide a 1 moa guarantee with this specified ammo and then I bought the same ammo. (Test target with this ammo looks awesome) I didn't have time or interest in working up loads so I went with this approach.

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I don't know how any manufacturer of ammunition can offer an accuracy guarantee. It will shoot differently out of every rifle. I would try another brand of ammo (or some hand loads) along with the other suggestions here. I have a browning 223 that offers a sub-MOA guarantee. I have shot expensive 'premium' Norma ammo and I can't get less than an inch at 100 yds. Switch over to winchester ballistic silvertip and it shoots clover leaf groups.

so what i understand is your having a nasty elevation problem at 200 yards?

if the windage is consistent then i doubt your the cause. if your pulling the shots consistently its more often going to be off by both elevation and windage. however, if you think your the problem then the easiest way to answer that question is to let someone else shoot it. if you know someone else who is a decent shot let them try under the same conditions you were shooting in. if you don't have a friend to do this you can simply look around a public range for someone who is shooting well and ask them for a moment of their time.

unlike many people here i love lead sleds and use them for load development for large bore guns on a regular basis. i doubt the lead sled is your issue unless you've found something on it to be broken or loose (make sure to check).

i did notice you already have one problem, you said your ammunition varied in velocity by around 100 fps. this may not sound like a lot but could easily be a factor at 200 yards. i personally am not a big fan of Nosler factory ammunition due to my experience with a couple boxes of their 375 H&H that couldn't hit the broad side of a barn from inside of it. assuming you haven't already, i strongly recommend trying a different brand of ammunition.

a question, are the shots stringing along in any kind of pattern? for example each shot progressively hitting higher then the last. if this is the case then its likely your barrel heating up more with each shot. light weight rifles with pencil thin barrels have a nasty habit of changing POI many times as they heat up and they will heat up FAST. a pencil thin 300 win mag barrel is "too hot" after just 2-3 shots and should be allowed about 5 minutes to cool.

another thing mentioned by other people was to check your scope/rings. but in your case im not sure if that's the problem because you said you weren't having trouble with horizontal accuracy.

lastly, as Bob stated dealing with recoil is a matter of technique and mental status. i assure you that you personally are capable of firing some of the largest guns ever made quite accurately if you pay close attention to your shooting technique and focus on the target rather then the recoil. even with a stock that doesn't fit you properly, you can still maintain accuracy if your shooting technique is correct and your mind is in the right place. however a stock that doesn't fit you will make the shooting experience much less pleasant.

-matt

For the record, a muzzle brake completely ruined my wifes shooting ability. The blast coming back at her made her flinch, now she does not want to shoot any more. And it has caused damage to my left ear.

Make sure al lthe action screws are tight at well as scope mounts.

Agree with all that say let someone else shoot it- it may not be you, but if you keep shooting it, you are going to lose all confidence in your shooting ability and then you will surely shoot poorly.

If it is in fact you and it is the recoil to blame, there are ways to deal with it. First off is rifle fit. I cannot believe that 14.5 inch length of pull is enough for a man your size unless you have very short arms and/or an extremely large chest for your size. I am 5'10" and my 404 has more length of pull than your rifle. Yes I am thin and have long arms, but something doesn't add up. The 404 was built to fit me and while it has a lot more recoil than my 30-06, it isn't much more bothersome because it fits better. Worst recoil I've ever experienced was from a .270 that happened to fit in such a way that the gun hit me on the coracoid process. Fit matters.

The various recoil pads and weights do of course make a difference. Most people advise working up to recoil- start with a .22, etc. I take the exact opposite view. If I shoot a light pump shotgun with 3 inch magnum slugs for a while and then switch to my 30-06, the latter feels like a cap gun. I gain confidence that the heavy hitter didn't hurt me. Much of recoil tolerance is psychological. There is a bunch of noise and a kick our brains trick us into believing something bad is going on.

Finally, I do believe there is great value is controlled muscle tension. The rifle should be very snug into the shoulder so it doesn't get a running start. But, and this is the tricky part, the rest of the body should be relatively loose. If the whole body is tensed up either with anticipation or because it is not easy to contract some muscles and relax others (although we do it all the time when we walk, it isn't easy to do on purpose) then the body can't move with the recoil and it hurts more. I know when I tense up the shoulder that will be taking the recoil, it it a lot more bothersome than when I roll with it. It takes a lot of practice, but by tensing and then relaxing the various muscle groups you can learn to do it. It is a technique I learned (but never got close to mastering) studying Systema where it is used to absorb punches and avoid telegraphing strikes. Works as well with a rifle.

ActionBob said:

For the record, a muzzle brake completely ruined my wifes shooting ability. The blast coming back at her made her flinch, now she does not want to shoot any more. And it has caused damage to my left ear.

Make sure al lthe action screws are tight at well as scope mounts.

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a muzzle brake will not help someone shoot better. if anything it just makes it easier to shoot the rifle wrong. then there is the damage caused to people ears that Bob is talking about. the noise increase caused by muzzle brakes is not some minor issue!

i do not use a muzzle brake on any of my rifles regardless of recoil energy. if a rifle is painful to shoot then one or more of these things is probably going on:
-the rifle doesn't fit you properly
-the rifle is too light
-your not holding the rifle correctly (this is usually the cause)

-matt

ActionBob said:

For the record, a muzzle brake completely ruined my wifes shooting ability. The blast coming back at her made her flinch, now she does not want to shoot any more. And it has caused damage to my left ear.

Make sure al lthe action screws are tight at well as scope mounts.

Click to expand...

matt85 said:

a muzzle brake will not help someone shoot better. if anything it just makes it easier to shoot the rifle wrong. then there is the damage caused to people ears that Bob is talking about. the noise increase caused by muzzle brakes is not some minor issue!

-matt

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Anyone that is shooting a rifle with a muzzle brake NEEDS TO WEAR HEARING PROTECTION. Even those around someone that is shooting a rifle with a brake needs to wear hearing protection no matter what the circumstances are. The increased noise is just the nature of the beast.

standard hearing protection is not enough with muzzle brakes. the decibel increase is actually so much that nothing short of a double set of hearing protection (plugs and muffs) will protect your fellow shooters from the blast! with the bigger guns even double hearing protection wont protect people from permanent damage (think 500 Jeffery).

the decibel level needed to cause immediate permanent damage to your hearing is 120 decibels. with a muzzle brake on your average magnum rifle (think 375) exceeds 200 decibels to the left and right of the shooter. ear plugs only reduce 20-30 decibels. this means your only down to 170 at best with ear plug which is still permanent hearing damage to all the people around you.

-matt

I put a muzzle brake on my 300 win mag that I took to Africa. My PH said it was the quietest one he had ever heard. It was recommended by the gun smith in town. It is a gentry

http://www.gentrycustom.com/muzzle-brake

You can use it on the range and then screw it off and put on a protector if you want. This one forces the air and gasses forward but still cut the kick. Check out the web page.

Have some one else shoot it and see if it does the same for them even if they flinch it shouldn't be the same as you

ActionBob said:

For the record, a muzzle brake completely ruined my wifes shooting ability. The blast coming back at her made her flinch...

Click to expand...

matt85 said:

a muzzle brake will not help someone shoot better. if anything it just makes it easier to shoot the rifle wrong...

Click to expand...

matt85 said:

standard hearing protection is not enough with muzzle brakes. the decibel increase is actually so much that nothing short of a double set of hearing protection (plugs and muffs) will protect...

Click to expand...

I'm definitely on the other side of the muzzle brake fence than Bob and Matt.

I have KDF muzzle brakes on my .375 RUM and on my .300 Weatherby, and now I wouldn't shoot either one without their brake. They also have custom stocks that fit me for drop and pull and that are fitted with Limbsaver recoil pads and in-stock recoil reducers. I've developed sub-moa loads that I've verified out to 300 yards with multiple bullets for both rifles and have used both rifles on multiple international hunts.

For the past 2 years, I've shot about half a box of shells through my .300 Bee on each of my weekly trips to the range. Usually 5 shots standing at a 100 yard target, and 4 shots prone at a 430 yard target. Yesterday I was also shooting my .308 Win (unbraked), prone, at 200, 300, and 430 yard targets. The recoil of my .300 Wby did not feel any different than the recoil of the .308 Win. I wore a pair of Peltor "shotgunner" earmuffs while shooting both rifles, and neither one sounded excessively loud. I do use both ear plugs and ear muffs when I shoot my .375 RUM at the range.

A good muzzle brake will reduce felt recoil by 40% or more. I believe that any reduction in felt recoil will allow a shooter to shoot better and more accurately. If a shooter can shoot moa groups and can consistently hit targets out to and over 400 yards, I do not see how they are shooting "wrong". Many rifle, pistol, and shotgun competitors agree, and they shoot braked or ported firearms.

Have not had time to read all the replies

1.try one of the cheap over stock butt pads will extend lop I am 6'5" in stockings

2.Lead sled ......forget it use a rucksack or similar

3. If not getting cheek weld use a shamag that Arabic scarf to wrap around the stock.

4.Hold the fore-end

If you can shoot 3 inch magnum 12g the 300 hh will not bother you.

I shoot 8mm rem mag and 416rigby so have learned a little

However these are personal views of what has worked for me .....

I agree with what others have said about your LOP. I like my rifles at a minimum of 15" LOP and usually put a recoil pad on them after that. Your rifle is way too short for someone your size (unless you are a T-Rex). I would also check to make sure your scope is mounted properly and everything on the gun is tight. Maybe take a look down the bore and see if there is any damage to the rifling.

just remember this, muzzle brakes regardless of how "quiet" they claim to be are bad news for a PH and trackers. you should ask your PH what he thinks of muzzle breaks. its unlikely any outfitter would turn you away (they need your business) but if asked informally you may get you PH's real opinion on the matter.

any one can shoot just about any gun without a muzzle brake. i have personally seen a 95 pound girl shoot a gun with over 60 ft/lb of recoil without issue and ive seen a 130 pound guy shoot a gun with well over 100 ft/lb of recoil without issue. all it takes is a proper hold, a proper stance, and focus.

also, if your going to use a muzzle brake at a public range please dont sit next to any one. nothing is more rude then pulling up next to someone and blowing their ear drums out with a braked rifle. i had a guy fired a braked 300 wby in the bench next to me once and i would compare the experiance to being punched in the face.

-matt

I am also long on arm and neck and my length of pull on my rifles is 15 and I am 5' 11. Also have my shotguns the same.

Look at you technique and get some range time and you will be up to the boomers in no time.

I am on Matt's side of the muzzle breaks, If I see someone at the range with one I go the the opposite side of the range to get away from the things. My belief is that Breaks belong on tanks, artillery pieces, and 50 BMG sniper rifles. But I also believe that it is an individuals right to decide what works for them. Just don't expect me to share the same side of the range as you.

Lots of good suggestions given already. A few of mine, most are repetitive. First suspect your scope and scope mounts. Only way to tell is to switch the scope out. If it's not the scope and the bedding screws are tight then most likely it's shooting style (not how good you shoot, just rifles that recoil more require a firmer grip on the gun). Get a solid grip on the forearm when shooting and dry fire a bunch. If you can do that and are still have the crosshairs on the bullseye you're ready to shoot. I have a 14.5" LOP too so I put a slip on Limbsaver recoil pad over the normal recoil pad and it helps a bunch. You shouldn't need a lead sled with a 300 H&H unless it's really really light, but a lead sled shouldn't do anything to accuracy. I use one with my 500 Jeffery when doing load development and initial sight in. After that I do a final sight in and then practice offhand and kneeling (I wouldn't shoot the beastie prone).

Best of luck

rookhawk said:

I'm a little 300lb, 6'9" tall guy so naturally I have to be a pathetic sissy when it comes to recoil.

I have a really lightweight, lovely single shot stalking rifle in 300 H&H and I tried to sight it in yesterday. I was all over the paper up and down (not left and right) at 200 yards. Manhole covers might fear me but certainly not in the X ring.

I was shooting it off a lead sled and still sucked. Any suggestions for getting this thing dialed in?

I have an identical twin gun in 7x57 and had no trouble putting 5 shots in the x and 10 ring at 200 yards so it's clearly a recoil issue with the magnum.

Any suggestions? I intend to use the 300 very infrequently but I bought it for the 200-250 yard shot on elk-kudu-giraffe-eland.

I don't know how you guys do it with big recoil stuff in light guns.

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Just out of curiosity, what is the make, model and year of the .300 H&H single shot? Some single shots (Ruger No. 1's) have issues with barrel/stock fit not being consistent and every time the gun goes off, it is under tension and shifts a little bit. This is due to the fact the the stock is not one solid piece but is anchored to beneath the barrel with some of the action protruding itno it. On a bolt gun, this is not an issue because the stock is anchored at the rear of the action but on some single shots, it is anchored partly to the barrel and partly to the action (which is where the scope is mounted.) Due to this, it is sometimes difficult to get them to zero. My father had a No.1 and it would throw about two out of five shots 3 inches high and left consistently. This was the explanation that the gunsmith gave him. He never got it to shoot straight so he sold it and got an new FN Model 70 that drives tacks.

On the other hand, Some single shots (Shutzen .38-55) are some of the most accurate rifles going.

It may very well be the gun/ammo and not you.

I have had guns not shoot a particular bullet or powder well. My Ruger GSR in .308 doesn't like Speer Boat Tails for some reason and throws them into a 4.5 inch group at 100 yards. With Hornady 165's it puts them all touching. Sierra 220's shot AWESOME but they only leave the muzzle at 2000 fps, which doesn't give them a very usable range for hunting.

As some of the others have said, try different loads before you completely chock it up to recoil and flinch.

The gun is a Dakota 10 single shot. (So no ruger #1 harmonics issue apply)

For end glass bedded.

Test target from factory 30 days ago shows better than 3/4 MOA 3 shots with 200gr accubond. Hence I think it's all me.

Identical twin rifle in 7x57 had 1 MOA factory test target and I got it to shoot very accurately immediately. (No recoil = I can shoot)

rookhawk said:

I'm a little 300lb, 6'9" tall guy so naturally I have to be a pathetic sissy when it comes to recoil.

I have a really lightweight, lovely single shot stalking rifle in 300 H&H and I tried to sight it in yesterday. I was all over the paper up and down (not left and right) at 200 yards. Manhole covers might fear me but certainly not in the X ring.

I was shooting it off a lead sled and still sucked. Any suggestions for getting this thing dialed in?

I have an identical twin gun in 7x57 and had no trouble putting 5 shots in the x and 10 ring at 200 yards so it's clearly a recoil issue with the magnum.

Any suggestions? I intend to use the 300 very infrequently but I bought it for the 200-250 yard shot on elk-kudu-giraffe-eland.

I don't know how you guys do it with big recoil stuff in light guns.

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I would almost bet that a person of your size that the length of pull on that rifle if stock (unless special ordered) is too short for you. First thing I would recommend you Try is to put a slip on limbsaver recoil pad and try shooting that.