Okay folks...how about the 500S&W in a rifle for Africa!

Paul Yothers over at Black River Ammo loaded up some hot rod ammo for my S&W 500.

Starline brass
685 grain LWFN ( no gas check)
CCI LRM primer
26 grains of WC 820
MV 1000-1100 fps.
That'll leave a mark.

I'm shooting 440 HCWFGC in it now at 1550 fps and 2340 ft/lb
I'm taking it to Africa in May to hunt with Hartzview Safaris, and I'll be using some 450-gr. loads over there. I do believe the 685 grain stuff will be a tad hot for a handgun.
One on the left is the little 440 grain hard cast; right is the 685 grain killer.

You want some, contact Paul. blackriver.herobo.com

This very evening, the tundra drums seem to be saying that, Matt85 has taken buffaloes with a frozen herring and that Bluey has taken salt water crocs with a frozen Brussels sprout.
However, for some unknown and perplexing reason, neither chap has tried using a pumped up revolver cartridge on them yet.

will the 500 S&W kill a cape buffalo, probably. is it a good idea to try, not really. if your life is the only one on the line then I say feel free to use what ever you want. but if someone else might get hurt from your decision then you might want to think very hard about the firearm you use on DG. remember your PH likely has a family that would like to see him come home safely.

when it comes to thick skinned DG, one should use the biggest rifle he/she can shoot accurately.

-matt

CTDOLAN...sorry about the cell phone quality picts, and she is not wearing her scope as I just added new TFO irons to her, and was out sighting it in.

That little thing has got to come back in a hurry! Especially with that 685 grain thumper.

It weighs in around 8lbs. The 500 barrel is heavier than my 243 barrel, very thick almost what I would call a HB. The length is deceptive because its a single shot the rear of the 22" barrel is right over the trigger......and as far as recoil goes (and it does have a fearsome rep, at least on the internet)...Having fired full house 500gr loads I would say the recoil is no worse than my 12 ga 870 firing 1-1/2 oz high brass loads. Not much fun off the bench, but I hardly feel it in the field. Also it's not a sharp recoil impulse (ala 300wm), much more like a shotgun.

Nice - thanks for sharing the images!

The beauty of these guns is their simplicity. I have had two NEF (older, H&R actually), one in 20 gauge (the first gun I ever owned, a gift from my mom and dad), and another in 10 gauge. They're a joy to own and shoot. The 20 gauge I love using for grouse in the BWCA. The gun only weighs a shade over 5 pounds and is a delight to carry. The lock-up is sound, the mechanism (the geometry of the bolting) well thought out, and the bar strong. I have never seen one which has gone off the face. But, I suppose some must exist.

In the rifle version, the action body is made of a high-strength, heat-treated alloy. The only concern I have had, not knowing a whole lot about it (not having bothered to do the research), is with regard to the strength of extraction (to what extent it can free a stubborn case). One thing is certain - adequate leverage exists, provide the components are up to it.

New here but I'll add that few if any .500 ammo is loaded to full power, most are only 45k- 52k psi. True power levels are consistently above 4,000 pounds. Many in the lever community consider it in the Big Horn lever superior to any 45/70 except possibly the 45/70 or larger in 1886. Hand loading is the main way of seeing true 60k psi power. Since revolvers are the main user of ammo and it's already famous for giving the hulk a flinch I see the reasoning.

Cheers

Just so you are aware.
In some countries there is a minimum energy level to hunt DG.

Comparing 450-400NE to the 500S&W is not apples to apples.

A mercifully ancient thread. But, if I am going to use an inadequate round on a buffalo (and I would suggest that even the souped up 1550 fps and 2340 ft/lb load would be the definition of both an inadequate and a typically illegal load), I would far rather hunt a buffalo with a 162 gr solid from a mannlicher schoenauer. At least I would be reasonably certain the bullet would penetrate to where it mattered.

I believe you underestimate the potential. 2200+ fps, 440 he head cast and 4800 pounds of energy. And still under the 60k psi case design. Not saying I'm taking mine to go after buffalo, but having seen what it does to elk with a offset facing hit that exited after 4+ feet and breaking the shoulder. It's very impressive for a mid case straight wall. Definitely not a 500NE.

Lycanit said:

I believe you underestimate the potential. 2200+ fps, 440 he head cast and 4800 pounds of energy. And still under the 60k psi case design. Not saying I'm taking mine to go after buffalo, but having seen what it does to elk with a offset facing hit that exited after 4+ feet and breaking the shoulder. It's very impressive for a mid case straight wall. Definitely not a 500NE.

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I don’t underestimate 2200 FPS at all, but I totally reject the adequacy of the 1550 FPS to which I referred.

The 458 win mag takes a bashing as poor DG round Because it can’t do 2150 with a 500 grain bullet. That 500 SW is much worse than that.

Disclaimer: That is not my opinion of the 458 win mag, but I hear it all the time.

The resurrection cometh again. It seems like it happens a few times a week around here.

So I did a light bit of research and our good friend Mike McNeth at Double Tap loads a load that in a rifle reached 2240fps pushing a hard cast 400 gr bullet. The rifle was a Big Horn Armory 89 lever action with a 22" barrel. The problem that all these people are facing is the same problem as the .460 S&W: the increased velocity eliminates many of your bullets as they are optimized for handgun use. Maybe you can find a .500 solid somehow(CEB, COP, BARNES) and live out your African dreams with a shoehorned solution that is still not as good as a .375 on its worst day.

I would completely agree red leg. That is definitely insufficient. I happened to join as this became a zombie thread.lol. if agree the .375 H&H is superior in many ways. I just believe that each problem has multiple solutions some are in conventional.. some are probably not good solutions to many. I do enjoy learning from those that have been there and the discussion derived there in. Also sometimes though new solutions are not given due consideration...lol. Like the 6.5CM for some, personally I'd prefer .416 or .460 for big and mean.

115grfmj said:

Just a hypothetical, but how about the 500 S&W in a rifle. 22" barrel turns it into a different beast than the handgun. Commercially available ammo statistics HSM Bear Loads 440gr hard cast, 1960fps/3753 Ft lbs......Double tap 400gr, 2240fps/4457 ftlbs at the muzzle. Obvious rainbow trajectory...so we are talking 100yds. Could I take my H&R Handi to Africa, and what kind of game would this cartridge be useful for. I already own this rifle and am proficient with it.
What are your thoughts gentlemen.

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500 will kill any animal on earth,if you know how to shoot and handle it,with the proper bullet and most important,PERFECT SHOT PLACEMENT,in a handgun!!!you want to take the fun out of it,then use a rifle.

How does one "Enhance" any Cartridge and Increase its effective Terminal Performance In The Field?

Bullet Technology.

The Bullet does all the Heavy Lifting.

15 years ago I developed a series of .500 caliber cartridges for various rifles. The problem I faced with these rifles at the time was that all bullets available were for the 500 S&W and developed for hand gun velocities. Many of these bullets were superb as long as you limited them to their max terminal velocities. But most of the rifle cartridges I was working with exceeded that, or had the potential to exceed that working velocity. If I was going to take these to the field, I needed proper design bullets.

This caused me to embark upon a great adventure, which in the end resulted in the bullets that were required and met the criteria I required. Primarily these bullets came from Cutting Edge and North Fork. Currently now there are some that will meet the requirements from Lehigh as well.

One of my .500s is the 50 B&M Super Short, a 1.65 inch case made from WSM brass, used in Winchester M70 WSSM actions. I run those with 16.25 inch barrels, they come in at 6 lbs with the Winchester Ultimate stock and overall length of 36 inches.

Through proper bullet design one does not require heavy weight bullets to be effective. The 50 B&M Super Short is very much a 500 S&W Rimless based in a Bolt Gun, very similar capacity, and of course the bolt gun can handle and operate at 65,000 PSI, which I normally run anything from 60,000 to 62,000 PSI for field operations. I have pressure testing equipment and these loads are tested throughly. The Bullets we use for Buffalo in this cartridge are 375 gr Cutting Edge Safari Solids (in the beginning these were BBW#13s) along with a matching 335 gr Raptor. Solids running 2200 fps, and Raptors up to 2300 fps. From North Fork we have the 375 North Fork Solids and Matching 375 North Fork EX Cup Points, EX standing for "Expanding"....... These are not only "adequate" for buffalo, they are hammers on buffalo.

In 2012 we went on a Family Adventure with our good friend Paul Truccolo in Australia. I took both my boys, Matthew and Mark, along with our daughter Mercedes, my wife Jaun and myself and good friend Sam Rose. Both boys took their Super Shorts, Matthew with his 50 Super Short and Mark David with his 475 B&M Super Short (.474 caliber version of the same cartridge). They each ran through 10-12 buffalo including some big bulls and the little rifles were hammers on them, far more effective than even I would have ever thought possible. It was eye opening to say the least. Both Sam and I were using larger cartridges, Sam using a 500 NE with various new Cutting Edge Bullets, and from our observations of how the buffalo were taking the Super Shorts Sam made the comment that the 50 B&M Super Short was every bit as effective as his 500 NE. We were watching buffalo reactions to taking the bullets, and neither Sam or I had to do any backup at all. Paul was on site of course and made the same observations.

Before this excursion I had always considered the Super Short "adequate", and had always recommended the larger 50 B&M for folks that wanted to hunt primarily the heavies, buffalo, hippo, elephant. However, after seeing just how good this combination of rifle, cartridge and more so the bullets, I no longer considered it just adequate, not only would it do the job, but it would do it very well. On saying this, I would still want the larger cartridges for "stopping", but Sam disagrees with this and considers the 50 Super Short more than capable of doing any mission required of it.

None of this possible without Bullet Technology, and bullets designed for the mission.

This is my Son Matthew McCourry with a huge body bull and his 50 B&M Super Short. The boys were extremely fast with their guns, Matthew was using on this bull 375 North Fork EX Cup Points, and backed with a 375 North Fork Solid. Two fast 375 EX CPS through heart and lungs, followed by the Solid, the two CPS were found on far side of the hide, the solid was shot at more of an angle from the rear and exited after over 4 foot of buffalo.

If I were going to hunt Africa with a 500 Smith & Wesson in a rifle I would use that one from Big Horn Armory. Granted, they’re not cheap. But I would like it better than a single shot. I would use bullets between four and 500 grains, hard cast or the ones from Belt Mountain. There’s been guys kill elephant and Buffalo with lesser calibers in handguns.

Right caliber, wrong cartridge

115grfmj said:

Just a hypothetical, but how about the 500 S&W in a rifle. 22" barrel turns it into a different beast than the handgun. Commercially available ammo statistics HSM Bear Loads 440gr hard cast, 1960fps/3753 Ft lbs......Double tap 400gr, 2240fps/4457 ftlbs at the muzzle. Obvious rainbow trajectory...so we are talking 100yds. Could I take my H&R Handi to Africa, and what kind of game would this cartridge be useful for. I already own this rifle and am proficient with it.
What are your thoughts gentlemen.

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Razor Dobbs used a Dan Wesson Razorback 10mm in Africa, and it still made things dead.