Okay folks...how about the 500S&W in a rifle for Africa!

115grfmj · Nov 11, 2014

Just a hypothetical, but how about the 500 S&W in a rifle. 22" barrel turns it into a different beast than the handgun. Commercially available ammo statistics HSM Bear Loads 440gr hard cast, 1960fps/3753 Ft lbs......Double tap 400gr, 2240fps/4457 ftlbs at the muzzle. Obvious rainbow trajectory...so we are talking 100yds. Could I take my H&R Handi to Africa, and what kind of game would this cartridge be useful for. I already own this rifle and am proficient with it.
What are your thoughts gentlemen.

Steve Steyr · Nov 11, 2014

The .500 S&W ballistics match, more or less, those of the .404 Jeffery and the 450/400 3" and 3 1/4" albeit the .500 bullets lack the sectional density of the famous 40's. If you're comfortable with the rifle and honor the rainbow-like trajectory, I can see no reason your .500 rifle should not work for African game.

115grfmj · Nov 11, 2014

Would it be up to the task of some of the larger species (ala Hippo, Buff, Elephant, or Cats). Really IMHO because of the rainbow like trajectory...It's not a long range plains game round. So the role I'd like it to fill is for shorter range heavy game getter.

sestoppelman · Nov 11, 2014

Sure, why not? Close range stopper. Those bullets should be heavy enough and hitting hard enough to not worry about.

enysse · Nov 11, 2014

Plenty of power, take it if you want too.

Steve Steyr · Nov 11, 2014

Did some more research on this. A 440 gr .500 bullet has a sectional density of only .251, a 400 grain is only.229. In non-premium bullets, a SD of .250 is recommended for deer.
So my question is, will a non-premium bullet with an SD of .251 or .229 be adequate to shoot to a vital area of thick skinned, wide bodied DG? And on non-broadside shots, will penetration be even close to what is needed to reach the vitals and insure a humane kill?
I don't know but I personally wouldn't stake the success of a five-figure DG hunt on my desire to use an "iffy" bullet. Large plains game-no problema. Your PH can get you close. DG-I would definitely want a heavier weight premium bullet at the velocities you have quoted as a bare minimum. If the .500 S&W in a rifle wouldn't get me there, I would choose another rifle and caliber.
I do know that many PH's don't exactly jump for joy when a client shows up with a 45/70 shooting these nearly same weight bullets at close to the same velocities. And a 400 gr or 440 gr .458 bullet has a higher SD than the same weights in .500. Again, just my untested opinion.
Kinda fun to get into this stuff, isn't it?

115grfmj · Nov 12, 2014

I was thinking heavy hardcast LFN-GC with a real wide meplat, so I don't think penetration is a a problem. I has also heard that much heavier bullets are available for it, but I have not yet done the research on it. Honestly, this discussion, is one of the reasons why this fine boards is my favorite. I feel as though, its a civilized group of hunters helping a fellow hunter out without all the acrimony, and posturing you'll find on the other internet board. You guys are truly a classy bunch.....and I'm very happy I found you.

115grfmj · Mar 20, 2015

Okay dragging up an old thread here...but rethinking my original ideas. Been messing around with hornadys 500gr xtp (s.d 286), hornady claims is suitable for dangerous game (including the big five) I've been able to drive it to 1650fp with out any trouble or over pressure signs, just loading by the book.(22" barrel) That gives me 2360 on the H.I.T.S. scale (anything over 1500 is suitable for dangerous game). A friend claims to have driven his to 1800fps safely out of his rifle, though I don't think it even needs that. Also I'm picking up some 700gr Hardcast LFN-GC to play around with. I have data that will drive that one to 1300fps and 3640 HITS!!!
What game would I be able to take with the 500gr xtps, would hardcast be better, and is it necessary to go up to the 700s for anything.

CTDolan · Mar 20, 2015

Hard cast would be better (LFN, not WFN...better penetration).

As for the Hornady 500 grain, I'd definitely NOT use it.

Best bullet? Belt Mountain Punch Bullet. They'll out penetrate anything else. If you do go hard cast, though, test the bullets (the batch/lot), because if a little too hard, the bullets will fracture (to test, a hammer and anvil are all you need...even though tough, when hit hard enough the bullets should deform, without any sign of fracturing).

CTDolan · Mar 20, 2015

www.beltmountain.com/punch.htm

CTDolan · Mar 20, 2015

http://www.gunblast.com/BeltMtn_PunchBullet.htm

Velo Dog · Mar 20, 2015

Even if such a thing is legal for dangerous game, I would not choose it for such.
Furthermore, even for non-dangerous game, I do not care for super high pressure cartridges in any weather, but especially not in hot weather.
If you dig .50 caliber single shot rifles and want to hunt Africa with one, buy a used Ruger #1 single shot and have a proper Gunsmith rebarrel it to .500 NE.

Wheels · Mar 20, 2015

AH member Steve Scott shot a cape buffalo with a 500 SW pistol on his show. AH member Jacques Spammer was the PH.

With a rifle barrel you should have better ballistics.

May not be my choice but I don't see why it wouldn't work in a lot of situations.

All the best.

CTDolan · Mar 21, 2015

Velo Dog is right...not really a good choice. If a person can afford a hunt in Africa, they can afford a more suitable rifle. And, since you're likely already accustomed to hard-recoiling light-for-caliber rifles (the 500 S&W NEF being very light!), I'd look for a Ruger No. 1 in 450-400 3".

However, if your heart is set upon the 500 S&W (or, if the question was purely academic), yes, with the proper bullet, it is up there the task.

All that said, though, it's always wise (and kind) to think of the PH when deciding what to bring, because it'll be his (or sometimes her) skin on the line, should things not go exactly as planned (and in that vein, adequate power which one can SHOOT WELL and control is the key).

115grfmj · Mar 21, 2015

The question is academic...as I'm in no position to hunt Africa right now. However I already own the rifle....it is not only completely dead reliable, but dead nutz accurate, and I'm extremely familiar with it. Also we are talking a hunting rifle, not a self defense stopping rifle (frankly even bolt guns are too slow IMHO for a stopping rifle up close on things that can eat you) The punch bullets look promising, but tell me why the hornady 500gr xtp is not suitable, as it was designed for such work.

I understand the platform is what some object too (and those Ruger#1's are sure real pretty !!!) but for me at l've least the manual of arms is extremely simple and easy to operate under pressure, when your motor skills go sideways, and you've got tunnel vision.

CTDolan · Mar 21, 2015

The Hornady will not penetrate as well as the others. What makes theses calibers work (475 Linebaugh, 500 Linebaugh, 475 Linebaugh Long, 500 Linebaugh Long, 500 Wyoming Express, 500 S&W...rifle or handgun) is their ability to go deep, given the proper bullet.

CTDolan · Mar 21, 2015

By the way, post some pics of your NEF 500, if you don't mind. I've got about 80 rounds of 500 S&W (Cor-Bon and Buffalo Bore) and have thought of getting one, for kicks (no pun intended).

Thank you.

CTDolan · Mar 21, 2015

Not a bad option and probably the one I would chose, if I were going to use the 500 S&W in a rifle, against something heavy.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/43...nose-gas-check-box-of-20?cm_vc=ProductFinding

Here's a commercial loading, with the punch bullet. Not cheap!!!

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/95...nose-lead-free-box-of-20?cm_vc=ProductFinding

115grfmj · Mar 22, 2015

CTDolan...I surely will do that when I get back home on Mon. If'n you do want one thought, I'd start searching now. The Investment group that owns Remington, and H&R1871 (among others) has decided to end production of H&R after more than 100years. The prices are starting to climb as well, like they did on Marlins after the same Group absorbed them then laid off all the marlin employees.

CTDolan · Mar 22, 2015

Investment groups are like shareholders...they only care about money in the short term. Nothing else seems to matter.

Okay folks...how about the 500S&W in a rifle for Africa!

115grfmj

Steve Steyr

115grfmj

sestoppelman

enysse

Steve Steyr

115grfmj

115grfmj

CTDolan

CTDolan

CTDolan

Velo Dog

Wheels

CTDolan

115grfmj

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