New USA requirements in addition to the form 4457

ThomasBeaham · Mar 18, 2015

JimP said:
I just sent off a email to my US Congressman and the rest of you should also. Remember it is the squeaky wheel that gets the grease.

If you don't know who your congressman is or how to contact them then here is a link to help you out.

http://www.house.gov/representatives/find/

+1 JimP !

I might even suggest going a step further if you all feel inclined.

The following is a list of the leadership for the 114th Congress' Congressional Sportsman's Caucus.

Senate:

Senator Jim Risch (R-ID) Co-Chair
Senator Joe Manchin (D-WV) Co-Chair
Senator Deb Fischer (R-NE) Vice-Chair
Senator Heidi Heitkamp (D-ND) Vice-Chair

House of Representatives:

Congressman Rob Wittman (R-VA) Co-Chair
Congressman Tim Walz (D-MN) Co-Chair
Congressman Jeff Duncan (R-SC) Vice-Chair
Congressman Gene Green (D-TX) Vice-Chair

MTGunner · Mar 18, 2015

Well isn't this a barrel of monkeys to sort out. We leave via the US going to RSA April 17. We will be starting at Logan Field Boston, MA. This where we will be declaring all to CBP, TSA and Delta. I will contact SCI, NRA and CBP soon to attempt to sort out this new debacle that has been instituted via the DC beauracratic entities. If I am able to glean a definitively easy path I will post it here. Wish me luck gentlemen. MTG

sandman0921 · Mar 18, 2015

Action Bob, I appreciate you making everyone aware of this.

I, like many others, am very concerned. On the surface it seems innocuous if it truly is designed to do what it says it does, but unfortunately my tin-foil hat only allows me to see it as just one more way for our current administration to screw with U.S. hunters and firearms owners. If "they" can't change the 2nd amendment then the strategy seems to be to make it as painful as possible to own a firearm so eventually everyone will say forget it.

I have emailed every organization with political "clout" I can think of including the NRA-ILA, SCI Legislative Affairs Office, DSC, USSA, DU, RMEF, B&C, DU, NWTF, etc. as well as my U.S. Senators and Congressman. Hopefully someone out there will be able to get us some expedient answers.

I encourage every U.S. hunter on here to do the same. Unfortunately this is probably going to be the norm from now on, and will require everyone to be extremely vigilant to insure our hunting heritage is preserved for future generations...........

AZDAVE · Mar 18, 2015

Good evening everyone. I called Gracy travel this morning and they are aware of it and looking into the process and will provide me something by the end of the week. i went through and took the "Checked baggage Determination Questionnaire" and it came back that a License exemption was available since I was taking 3 or less firearms and less than 1000 rounds of ammo. The second statement that MUST file and electronic Export information in AESDirect. and a couple other statements. Then read the ICE FAQ and the one I keyed in on was that the traveler or agent acting on the traveler's behalf must enter the export info in AES Direct. So my plan A is to have gracy work the wickets and offer the service as part of the travel, SAP520, meet an greet service etc. Plan B is that I called Coppersmith import and export (They were my import agent for my last safari's trophies) and talked to their export folks. The person that handles air exports wasn't in the office today However the big shipper export folks said that to just enter the data for individuals in the AES system would be child's play and would cost 50-75 $ as a guess. Plan C is that I create the accounts myself and wade through the screens and the test crap. My .02 cents take is that this will just now because of the bureaucrats our planning for $$ on the safari will need to budget a few extra pesos to get the travel agent or import export folks to handle it on our behalf. Annoying but nothing major. I will post infro from Gracy later when they get back with their work around. I can also provide phone #'s for coppersmith. Would like to see if one of the travel folks on our forum have any guidance?

brushmore · Mar 18, 2015

AZDAVE said:
Plan C is that I create the accounts myself and wade through the screens and the test crap

I attempted this route but when I tried to create an account a company tax id is the first thing you need. I see no way for a citizen to create an account.

Royal27 · Mar 18, 2015

brushmore said:
I attempted this route but when I tried to create an account a company tax id is the first thing you need. I see no way for a citizen to create an account.

This whole thing may get implemented eventually, but it ain't gonna happen in the next 60 days. Obama care proved how long it takes the federal government to get a website working when input is required.

PHOENIX PHIL · Mar 18, 2015

AZDAVE said:
Good evening everyone. I called Gracy travel this morning and they are aware of it and looking into the process and will provide me something by the end of the week. i went through and took the "Checked baggage Determination Questionnaire" and it came back that a License exemption was available since I was taking 3 or less firearms and less than 1000 rounds of ammo. The second statement that MUST file and electronic Export information in AESDirect. and a couple other statements. Then read the ICE FAQ and the one I keyed in on was that the traveler or agent acting on the traveler's behalf must enter the export info in AES Direct. So my plan A is to have gracy work the wickets and offer the service as part of the travel, SAP520, meet an greet service etc. Plan B is that I called Coppersmith import and export (They were my import agent for my last safari's trophies) and talked to their export folks. The person that handles air exports wasn't in the office today However the big shipper export folks said that to just enter the data for individuals in the AES system would be child's play and would cost 50-75 $ as a guess. Plan C is that I create the accounts myself and wade through the screens and the test crap. My .02 cents take is that this will just now because of the bureaucrats our planning for $$ on the safari will need to budget a few extra pesos to get the travel agent or import export folks to handle it on our behalf. Annoying but nothing major. I will post infro from Gracy later when they get back with their work around. I can also provide phone #'s for coppersmith. Would like to see if one of the travel folks on our forum have any guidance?

Good work Dave!

Mr. 16 gauge · Mar 18, 2015

AZDAVE said:
Good evening everyone. I called Gracy travel this morning and they are aware of it and looking into the process and will provide me something by the end of the week. i went through and took the "Checked baggage Determination Questionnaire" and it came back that a License exemption was available since I was taking 3 or less firearms and less than 1000 rounds of ammo. The second statement that MUST file and electronic Export information in AESDirect. and a couple other statements. Then read the ICE FAQ and the one I keyed in on was that the traveler or agent acting on the traveler's behalf must enter the export info in AES Direct. So my plan A is to have gracy work the wickets and offer the service as part of the travel, SAP520, meet an greet service etc. Plan B is that I called Coppersmith import and export (They were my import agent for my last safari's trophies) and talked to their export folks. The person that handles air exports wasn't in the office today However the big shipper export folks said that to just enter the data for individuals in the AES system would be child's play and would cost 50-75 $ as a guess. Plan C is that I create the accounts myself and wade through the screens and the test crap. My .02 cents take is that this will just now because of the bureaucrats our planning for $$ on the safari will need to budget a few extra pesos to get the travel agent or import export folks to handle it on our behalf. Annoying but nothing major. I will post infro from Gracy later when they get back with their work around. I can also provide phone #'s for coppersmith. Would like to see if one of the travel folks on our forum have any guidance?

Well, pardon me.....but this is a bunch of BULLSHIT!!!! I don't see how making me pay extra money so I can go hunting abroad is going to prevent the illegal spread of AK47s amongst those who use them for illegal purposes, and shame on ALL of us for letting them do so! If a bunch of pissed off shooters can get the BATF to rescind their attempt to ban .223 ammo (in a few weeks, I might add), then we ought to be able to get this cluster f*** piece of legislation rescinded as well.
Thomas Beaham;
How do I go about addressing this "Sportsmans caucus"?.....I have never heard of them before. Do I address them as a group, or do I have to write to them as individuals? I am currently drafting a letter to my senators (both notoriously antigun) and congressional representative.
I'm not laying down and taking this shit anymore!!!! If I go down, I'm going down fighting!!! :E Red Hot:

BRICKBURN · Mar 18, 2015

Mr. 16 gauge said:
Well, pardon me.....but this is a bunch of BULLSHIT!!!! I don't see how making me pay extra money .............

This is going to cost you money, directly?

thi9elsp · Mar 18, 2015

AZDAVE said:
Good evening everyone. I called Gracy travel this morning and they are aware of it and looking into the process and will provide me something by the end of the week. i went through and took the "Checked baggage Determination Questionnaire" and it came back that a License exemption was available since I was taking 3 or less firearms and less than 1000 rounds of ammo. The second statement that MUST file and electronic Export information in AESDirect. and a couple other statements. Then read the ICE FAQ and the one I keyed in on was that the traveler or agent acting on the traveler's behalf must enter the export info in AES Direct. So my plan A is to have gracy work the wickets and offer the service as part of the travel, SAP520, meet an greet service etc. Plan B is that I called Coppersmith import and export (They were my import agent for my last safari's trophies) and talked to their export folks. The person that handles air exports wasn't in the office today However the big shipper export folks said that to just enter the data for individuals in the AES system would be child's play and would cost 50-75 $ as a guess. Plan C is that I create the accounts myself and wade through the screens and the test crap. My .02 cents take is that this will just now because of the bureaucrats our planning for $$ on the safari will need to budget a few extra pesos to get the travel agent or import export folks to handle it on our behalf. Annoying but nothing major. I will post infro from Gracy later when they get back with their work around. I can also provide phone #'s for coppersmith. Would like to see if one of the travel folks on our forum have any guidance?

AZDave,

Great information. I never thought about having the export company do it for me and reading your note reminded me that I read that in the FAQs too. I will be very interested to see what you find out.

John

sandman0921 · Mar 18, 2015

Mr. 16 gauge said:
Well, pardon me.....but this is a bunch of BULLSHIT!!!! I don't see how making me pay extra money so I can go hunting abroad is going to prevent the illegal spread of AK47s amongst those who use them for illegal purposes, and shame on ALL of us for letting them do so! If a bunch of pissed off shooters can get the BATF to rescind their attempt to ban .223 ammo (in a few weeks, I might add), then we ought to be able to get this cluster f*** piece of legislation rescinded as well.
Thomas Beaham;
How do I go about addressing this "Sportsmans caucus"?.....I have never heard of them before. Do I address them as a group, or do I have to write to them as individuals? I am currently drafting a letter to my senators (both notoriously antigun) and congressional representative.
I'm not laying down and taking this shit anymore!!!! If I go down, I'm going down fighting!!!

Mr. 16 Gauge,

I whole heartedly agree with your sentiment!

The US Sportsman's Caucus is the group of US Senators and Congressman that have introduced and sponsored the Senate Bill (S.405) - The Bipartisan Sportsman's Act of 2015 which is broad in it's scope but needless to say is pro-hunting. HSUS is of course actively opposing it but it appears to have cleared a few hurdles in the senate........Anyway, I digress. Besides emailing the individual senators and congressmen and women, you can contact the legislative divisions of the NRA (NRA-ILA), SCI (Legislative Division), and U.S. Sportman's Alliance (USAA). This last one, the USSA appears to have some "pull" in D.C. and with the US Sportsman's Caucus. I have heard of them, but just recently decided to become a member. Anyway, "fun" times we're living in for sure......

ThomasBeaham · Mar 18, 2015

Mr. 16 gauge said:
Thomas Beaham;
How do I go about addressing this "Sportsmans caucus"?.....I have never heard of them before. Do I address them as a group, or do I have to write to them as individuals? I am currently drafting a letter to my senators (both notoriously antigun) and congressional representative.

Mr. 16 gauge,

I chose to address the Congressional Co-Chairs individually.

Found their contact at the link provided in an earlier post in this thread by AH member JimP . Thanks Jim!

quote:

"The bipartisan Congressional Sportsmen's Caucus (CSC) has grown into one of the largest and most effective caucuses in the US Congress with nearly 300 members of the House and Senate representing almost all 50 states.

The CSC, with direct support from CSF, has maintained its effectiveness in championing the sportsmen’s agenda in Congress even through shifts in political power. While the threats to sportsmen’s interests are ever present, the CSC remains an identified group of allies continuously working as pro-sportsmen elected officials to protect and advance the agenda and interests of America’s sportsmen and women."

If you follow this link it will provide you with the opportunity to view (PDF) a full roster of the 114th CSC. http://www.sportsmenslink.org/caucuses/congressional/

Have at 'em, but, please, for all our sakes, play nice.

Edited to add: Sandman0921 was typing at the same time. Thanks Sandman.

bc3141s · Mar 18, 2015

I am surprised no one has mentioned the limitations for all "exports" to .50 caliber. There goes the .577 and similar large bore caliber!

Also, noted in the FAQ section on ICE page, they link to countries which "exports" are prohibited (irrespective) if you qualify for an exemption. Many are African countries open to hunting.

If I qualify for an export license exemption under 22 C.F.R. § 123.17 is there anything else I need to be aware of before I depart the United States with firearms and/or ammunition?

Yes, if traveling from the U.S. to a foreign destination with firearms and/or ammunition for which no export license is required, travelers must adhere to the following requirements:

The firearms and ammunition may only be exported temporarily and must accompany the person upon their immediate return to the United States;
The firearms/ammunition must accompany the traveler or be with the traveler’s checked baggage but may not be sent through the mail or via other contract carrier or common carrier services (i.e. UPS, FedEx, DHL, etc.);
The firearms and/or ammunition may not be gifted, sold or otherwise transferred to another person outside of the U.S.;
The firearms may not be exported to multiple countries during the same trip or to a country other than the end-destination declared in the Electronic Export Information (EEI);
No firearms and/or ammunition may be exported to certain countries that are subject to U.S. arms embargoes. These prohibited countries are listed in 22 C.F.R. § 126.1;
Certain countries may require an Import Certificate or a U.S. export license before allowing the import of firearms and/or ammunition. Travelers are responsible for determining and complying with any import requirements of any/all countries of intended destination or transit. Failure to obtain the required foreign import permit(s) or to properly declare the firearms and/or ammunition upon arrival in a foreign country may result in detainment, denial of entry, arrest, criminal prosecution, and/or the seizure of firearms by foreign customs or police officials.

BRICKBURN · Mar 18, 2015

bc3141s said:
I..................

Also, noted in the FAQ section on ICE page, they link to countries which "exports" are prohibited (irrespective) if you qualify for an exemption. Many are African countries open to hunting.

No firearms and/or ammunition may be exported to certain countries that are subject to U.S. arms embargoes. These prohibited countries are listed in 22 C.F.R. § 126.1;

..............

No place on that list I would want to go hunting.

(1) Cote d'Ivoire

(2) Democratic Republic of Congo

(3) Eritrea

(4) Iraq

(5) Iran

(6) Lebanon

(7) Liberia

(8) Libya

(9) North Korea.

(10) Somalia

(11) The Republic of the Sudan

bc3141s · Mar 18, 2015

BRICKBURN said:
No place on that list I would want to go hunting.

Keep reading...that's just sub letter (c) with a list through (u). For example:

(s) Zimbabwe. It is the policy of the United States to deny licenses or other approvals for exports or imports of defense articles and defense services destined for or originating in Zimbabwe, except that a license or other approval may be issued, on a case-by-case basis, for the temporary export of firearms and ammunition for personal use by individuals (not for resale or retransfer, including to the Government of Zimbabwe). Such exports may meet the licensing exemptions of §123.17 of this subchapter.

thi9elsp · Mar 18, 2015

bc3141s said:
I am surprised no one has mentioned the limitations for all "exports" to .50 caliber. There goes the .577 and similar large bore caliber!

Also, noted in the FAQ section on ICE page, they link to countries which "exports" are prohibited (irrespective) if you qualify for an exemption. Many are African countries open to hunting.

If I qualify for an export license exemption under 22 C.F.R. § 123.17 is there anything else I need to be aware of before I depart the United States with firearms and/or ammunition?

Yes, if traveling from the U.S. to a foreign destination with firearms and/or ammunition for which no export license is required, travelers must adhere to the following requirements:

The firearms and ammunition may only be exported temporarily and must accompany the person upon their immediate return to the United States;

The firearms/ammunition must accompany the traveler or be with the traveler’s checked baggage but may not be sent through the mail or via other contract carrier or common carrier services (i.e. UPS, FedEx, DHL, etc.);

The firearms and/or ammunition may not be gifted, sold or otherwise transferred to another person outside of the U.S.;

The firearms may not be exported to multiple countries during the same trip or to a country other than the end-destination declared in the Electronic Export Information (EEI);

No firearms and/or ammunition may be exported to certain countries that are subject to U.S. arms embargoes. These prohibited countries are listed in 22 C.F.R. § 126.1;

Certain countries may require an Import Certificate or a U.S. export license before allowing the import of firearms and/or ammunition. Travelers are responsible for determining and complying with any import requirements of any/all countries of intended destination or transit. Failure to obtain the required foreign import permit(s) or to properly declare the firearms and/or ammunition upon arrival in a foreign country may result in detainment, denial of entry, arrest, criminal prosecution, and/or the seizure of firearms by foreign customs or police officials.

Just looked at the detail per your note. Here's what is says about Zimbabwe. So, it looks like when you go into AES and fill out the form, you will find out if you can take your firearm and ammunition to Zimbabwe or not. If the exemption is denied, I suspect one doesn't have much recourse.

22CFR 126.1
(s) Zimbabwe. It is the policy of the United States to deny licenses or other approvals for exports or imports of defense articles and defense services destined for or originating in Zimbabwe, except that a license or other approval may be issued, on a case-by-case basis, for the temporary export of firearms and ammunition for personal use by individuals (not for resale or retransfer, including to the Government of Zimbabwe). Such exports may meet the licensing exemptions of §123.17 of this subchapter.

thi9elsp · Mar 18, 2015

D

bc3141s said:
(s) Zimbabwe. It is the policy of the United States to deny licenses or other approvals for exports or imports of defense articles and defense services destined for or originating in Zimbabwe, except that a license or other approval may be issued, on a case-by-case basis, for the temporary export of firearms and ammunition for personal use by individuals (not for resale or retransfer, including to the Government of Zimbabwe). Such exports may meet the licensing exemptions of §123.17 of this subchapter.

That is really scary. We both found the same text and bolded the same group of words. Get out of my brain!

John

thi9elsp · Mar 18, 2015

BRICKBURN said:
No place on that list I would want to go hunting.

(1) Cote d'Ivoire

(2) Democratic Republic of Congo

(3) Eritrea

(4) Iraq

(5) Iran

(6) Lebanon

(7) Liberia

(8) Libya

(9) North Korea.

(10) Somalia

(11) The Republic of the Sudan

Look further, Zimbabwe is included.

bc3141s · Mar 18, 2015

bc3141s said:
If I qualify for an export license exemption under 22 C.F.R. § 123.17 is there anything else I need to be aware of before I depart the United States with firearms and/or ammunition?

Yes, if traveling from the U.S. to a foreign destination with firearms and/or ammunition for which no export license is required, travelers must adhere to the following requirements:

The firearms may not be exported to multiple countries during the same trip or to a country other than the end-destination declared in the Electronic Export Information (EEI);

My apologies to all for the multiple first time posts, but I think I have finally reached my breaking point.

Note the bullet quoted above, so is this an end to all multiple country safaris? I just went on one last year and know dozens who have done the same. What about the common overnight in South Africa...technically that is entering another country? Clearly a cluster-f.

ornery · Mar 18, 2015

Okay, I'm just a poorly educated old gunsmith, but enough is enough. Let's get organized, if we ain't already. I got rope (just kiddin' sort of)

Knowing what I know of the guys that hunt overseas, most are well educated and of reasonable means. We , through all of the already named associations, should be a formidable force, especially with the backing of outfitters and the other various businesses that are part of the international hunting business. There have got to be enough lawyers, politicians, businessmen and money guys involved in our beloved sport to make these morons back off.
You guys have to take the lead on this...until the fighting starts, then get the heck out of the way of us rednecks....cuz us and our dawgs don't fight fair!
Rant over...my blood pressure is going up.

New USA requirements in addition to the form 4457

ThomasBeaham

MTGunner

sandman0921

AZDAVE

brushmore

Royal27

PHOENIX PHIL

Mr. 16 gauge

BRICKBURN

thi9elsp

sandman0921

ThomasBeaham

bc3141s

BRICKBURN

bc3141s

thi9elsp

thi9elsp

thi9elsp

bc3141s

ornery

Members online

Forum statistics

Proudly sponsored by

Latest posts

Latest profile posts

Share this page